So Im a Pessimist

[Elza]

Personally, I believe that all hell is going to break loose in this country in the next year.  Our economy is going to tank (it isnt far from it now) and all of the losers now living on .gov handouts are going to be screaming and rioting.  Toss in a few well placed terrorist acts and this country is going to come apart at the seams.  And it wont matter who is warming the seat in the Oval Office.

If my prediction of doom comes to pass and if BHO is our President, who is the MSM going to blame for it?  There wont be a Republican upon whom they can blame it.  What will the MSM do then?

[El Tejon]

Blame fistful.

[taurusowner]

Personally, I believe that all hell is going to break loose in this country in the next year.  Our economy is going to tank (it isnt far from it now) and all of the losers now living on .gov handouts are going to be screaming and rioting.  Toss in a few well placed terrorist acts and this country is going to come apart at the seams.  And it wont matter who is warming the seat in the Oval Office.

If my prediction of doom comes to pass and if BHO is our President, who is the MSM going to blame for it?  There wont be a Republican upon whom they can blame it.  What will the MSM do then?

Our economy is FAR from the bottom.  Nintendo Wiis are still hard to keep on the shelves, Amusement parks are still full, new car lots still sell them same car with an 09 after the name instead of an 08.  Americans are not going barefoot, standing in soup lines, and trying to stay warm or cool in houses with no electricity.  They are earning money and spending it on toys are entertainment.  In the past 20 years, the DOW average has gone from 2000 pts to 14000 pts, and now that it's drop to 10,000, all of a sudden people are freaking out.

This isn't the 20's.   Not even close.  We don't know how good we have it.

[MechAg94]

They have been blaming Bush since almost before the 2000 election.  I doubt they will stop for a couple more years at least.

I wouldn't fear a slump or downturn, I would fear the reaction taken by an Obama administration which would almost certainly come up with some sort of policy that included increasing taxes.  When was the last time a Democrat actually suggested reducing taxes?  JFK?  I would ask the same question about cutting a govt program that wasn't law enforcement or military related, but I don't know about that one.  Obama is really just a typical Democrat with a more polished image. 

[De Selby]

They have been blaming Bush since almost before the 2000 election.  I doubt they will stop for a couple more years at least.

I wouldn't fear a slump or downturn, I would fear the reaction taken by an Obama administration which would almost certainly come up with some sort of policy that included increasing taxes.  When was the last time a Democrat actually suggested reducing taxes?  JFK?  I would ask the same question about cutting a govt program that wasn't law enforcement or military related, but I don't know about that one.  Obama is really just a typical Democrat with a more polished image. 

Obama's plan is to decrease taxes for most individuals, while raising taxes for a smaller percentage of individuals to compensate.

So he's a tax cutter and a tax increaser-the vast majority of Americans will see a tax cut from an Obama administration, though.

[taurusowner]

Obama's plan is to decrease taxes for most individuals, while raising taxes for a smaller percentage of individuals to compensate.

Too bad it's the small percentage of individuals who own all the companies and provide all the jobs.  I really hope Obama doesn't force them to move out of the US any faster than they already are.

[De Selby]

Obama's plan is to decrease taxes for most individuals, while raising taxes for a smaller percentage of individuals to compensate.

Too bad it's the small percentage of individuals who own all the companies and provide all the jobs.  I really hope Obama doesn't force them to move out of the US any faster than they already are.

He's also planning to alter the tax code to favor companies that create jobs here, bringing them back from over seas.

That's using tax increases, I'm assuming.

I'm not really sure how the effects will shake out, but it definitely isn't true to call Obama a blanket tax increaser.  Most people will see a decrease in their taxes under Obama.  Whether that's overall good or bad is another matter.

[RocketMan]

I wonder where BHO's cutoff for the "rich" is?  How does he define rich?  Just where will this alleged tax cut kick in?

[seeker_two]

Elza: It's not as bad now as what it has been in the past and what it will get in the far future. We're just in the declining years of our "empire" (think Trajan or Hadrian--the last major hurrah)......

Incidently, my pastor thinks that the United States probably won't exist by the time of the Tribulation or Armageddon......(not that this has anything to do with anything...but just points out that things aren't as bad as they're gonna be..... )

[De Selby]

I wonder where BHO's cutoff for the "rich" is?  How does he define rich?  Just where will this alleged tax cut kick in?

200,000 to 250,000 per year income.

The largest cuts are for those at 75,000 per year and under.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I wonder where BHO's cutoff for the "rich" is?  How does he define rich?  Just where will this alleged tax cut kick in?

200,000 to 250,000 per year income.

The largest cuts are for those at 75,000 per year and under.

I hope you aren't a small business owner...

[Dntsycnt]

People vastly overestimate the difference between two possible outcomes.  I think that applies for the election.  Neither candidate is going to bring the fall of the Union, though either one might make life more uncomfortable for some people for a short spell.

Unless one was to instigate some type of nuclear exchange.

[De Selby]

I wonder where BHO's cutoff for the "rich" is?  How does he define rich?  Just where will this alleged tax cut kick in?

200,000 to 250,000 per year income.

The largest cuts are for those at 75,000 per year and under.

I hope you aren't a small business owner...

I'm not-but that doesn't change the fact that Obama will be cutting income taxes for the vast majority of Americans.

Like I said-this isn't a good/bad judgment.  We can argue till the cows come home about whether or not Bush/McCain tax policy actually improves the economy and makes more people better off, but there's no need to go there to know that Barack Obama is not a blanket tax increaser. 

[MechAg94]

I wonder where BHO's cutoff for the "rich" is?  How does he define rich?  Just where will this alleged tax cut kick in?

200,000 to 250,000 per year income.

The largest cuts are for those at 75,000 per year and under.

I hope you aren't a small business owner...

I'm not-but that doesn't change the fact that Obama will be cutting income taxes for the vast majority of Americans.

Like I said-this isn't a good/bad judgment.  We can argue till the cows come home about whether or not Bush/McCain tax policy actually improves the economy and makes more people better off, but there's no need to go there to know that Barack Obama is not a blanket tax increaser. 

SS, they have always said they would only raise taxes on the rich.  They simply can't get enough money to pay for their programs unless they drop that income amount down quite a bit. 

Also, Obama has a said a lot of things.  It is interesting that you wholeheartedly believe that one. 

[De Selby]

I wonder where BHO's cutoff for the "rich" is?  How does he define rich?  Just where will this alleged tax cut kick in?

200,000 to 250,000 per year income.

The largest cuts are for those at 75,000 per year and under.

I hope you aren't a small business owner...

I'm not-but that doesn't change the fact that Obama will be cutting income taxes for the vast majority of Americans.

Like I said-this isn't a good/bad judgment.  We can argue till the cows come home about whether or not Bush/McCain tax policy actually improves the economy and makes more people better off, but there's no need to go there to know that Barack Obama is not a blanket tax increaser. 

SS, they have always said they would only raise taxes on the rich.  They simply can't get enough money to pay for their programs unless they drop that income amount down quite a bit. 

Also, Obama has a said a lot of things.  It is interesting that you wholeheartedly believe that one. 

Again, going off of what he said-he's specifically said he will drop taxes as well as increase them for a smaller part of the population. 

But if we don't believe anything the politicians say, it's pointless to post anything about their presidential campaigns at all.  Certainly we will not be predicting anything good from McCain if this is the standard.

I do note that your first post talked about the last time a democrat "suggested reducing taxes."  There is no question that Obama is suggesting a tax reduction-that's his campaign platform, even. 

[Manedwolf]

Obama's plan is to decrease taxes for most individuals, while raising taxes for a smaller percentage of individuals to compensate.

If by "smaller percentage", you mean "all productive citizens who bothered to get a job", then yes. I think that's actually a larger percentage, though.

Remember, if you make more than 80K, you're RICH, and BAD. Unless you're one of the philosopher-kings, then you can have your palace and be completely beyond reproach. Like him!

[De Selby]

Obama's plan is to decrease taxes for most individuals, while raising taxes for a smaller percentage of individuals to compensate.

If by "smaller percentage", you mean "all productive citizens who bothered to get a job", then yes. I think that's actually a larger percentage, though.

Remember, if you make more than 80K, you're RICH, and BAD. Unless you're one of the philosopher-kings, then you can have your palace and be completely beyond reproach. Like him!

Again, this is in the category of good/bad tax policy; that does not change the fact that most of the population gets a tax cut if Obama implements his plan.

Maybe you don't think most people deserve one as much as those who make more than 250k a year, but it's still a cut he's proposing.

You might be able to convince people that the tax cut isn't good for them; that the richest few percentage points of voters deserve the break more, or whatever you want to, but again....that doesn't mean the plan is to increase taxes.

[Perd Hapley]

Did someone suggest that rich people deserve tax cuts, but less affluent people don't? 

Anyhoo, regardless how many see tax cuts, any income tax increase on the upper echelons would be a Bad Thing.  Would it not? 

[The Annoyed Man]

   I'd like us to get our country back. The 16th amendment gave the powers that be (well, some of them), freedom into our pockets pretty much denied by the constitution... by not being among the enumerated powers, that is.

  There's a move afoot to actully do away with the IRS, and replace it with "The Fair Tax."

  Sorry I don't have a link, it's Fairtax.org, and well worth checking out.

  Income taxes started out as a temporary thing, and it's increas :laugh:ing tax rates for the "rich", then inflation puts more and more people in that category...

  Oh, am I ranting again?

[Racehorse]

With regard to the OP, unemployment is still at under 6%. I'm not going to worry too much until it hits double digits, and the crap won't really hit the fan until it gets up around 25-30% like it was in the great depression. Even then, we somehow made it through.

I believe we'll see some tough times, but I don't think all is lost. I don't think it's to the point that a year from now we'll all be living in caves caressing our assault rifles and coming out only at night to gather old Snickers bars off the corpses of the damned.

I guess that makes me some kind of optimist.

With regard to taxes, I'm of the opinion that everyone should bear some burden in contributing to government. I think the most equitable way to do this is through a flat tax with no deductions or exemptions at a low, constitutionally declared rate. I know it will not happen in my lifetime, but it would be great.

[taurusowner]

SS, do you realize that HALF of the nation pays about 3% of income taxes?  And that the other half pays 97%??

What more of a tax cut does that first half even need?

[De Selby]

SS, do you realize that HALF of the nation pays about 3% of income taxes?  And that the other half pays 97%??

What more of a tax cut does that first half even need?

Again, this falls into the category of "they don't deserve a tax cut," not, "Obama is/is not going to cut most people's taxes."

[taurusowner]

To have your taxes cut, first one must actually pay taxes.  I thought you understood math.

[De Selby]

To have your taxes cut, first one must actually pay taxes.  I thought you understood math.

I did-I think you misunderstood the math.

When you say the bottom half pays three percent of the taxes...they are still all paying taxes, just not in the amounts paid by the top 3 percent.

If you think that the country making under 200,000 isn't paying taxes, you need to talk to some folks.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The more I think about it, the less inclined I am to believe that Obama is going to cut taxes.  You'd have to be pretty naive to believe that taxes are going to be lower with a pseudo-Marxist in the oval office.

He'll talk a lot of talk now.  If he gets elected, he may even reduce the tax rates for some of the population by a small, token amount.  But I'm quite convinced that on balance the tax burden on the citizenry will be much higher after an Obama presidency than they were before.  I'm also quite convinced that the burden will be greatest on those with the greatest economic impact and importance.