ALGORE says must go completely wind and solar within ten years

[Manedwolf]

I suspect Al Gore, a man with immense expendable income, sets higher standards for the public than himself.

As I keep saying, Obama and Gore and Edwards are Plato's philosopher-kings. The liberal masses adore them and want them to lead them, since they cannot lead themselves. And they are allowed their different standards and their palaces.

[longeyes]

This was never about rational solutions to real problems.

The sooner we come to grips with that the sooner we'll understand what we have to do.

[m1911owner]

This was never about rational solutions to real problems.

The sooner we come to grips with that the sooner we'll understand what we have to do.

I suspect you're right about that.

What then is "what we have to do"?

[Ben]

Instead of griping about how bad petroleum is and that we have to, "do something drastic NOW!" we should follow China's lead. Drill like mad, build nuke plants, and develop alternative energy while using the technology we already know works. China has all kinds of mandates for alternative fuels like biodiesel, but they're not dropping other fuel sources to focus on that alone. When they start weening themselves off fossil diesel, they'll be able to almost seamlessly switch to biodiesel, and nuclear is already a long term energy source.

I never thought I'd see the day when I would say that places like China had the technological jump on us, but thanks to people like Gore and their constraining, backward thinking regulations, there you have it.

[longeyes]

What I meant is our "leadership" class is full of dangerous obstructionists who want America brought low. 

Perhaps we will need a grass-roots movement to legally remove these people from office.  I leave the details to our legal eagles on this forum.

[m1911owner]

Perhaps we will need a grass-roots movement to legally remove these people from office.  I leave the details to our legal eagles on this forum.

I believe the usual mechanism for that is this thing we call an "election"...

It would appear that the task before us it to somehow educate the morons that keep voting for the Pelosis and Gores of this country so that they stop voting for them.

I would love to hear suggestions about how to do that.

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are on the radio six hours a day, and still these people aren't learning.  You can lead a horse to drink, but you can't make it water.  Or something like that.

[Waitone]

We know the tipping point has been reached when the voters want to throw THEIR bums out.  Happened in '92.  I see glimpses of hope in '08 but so far no trends. 

[Tallpine]

I would love to have an independent solar power system for my compound.

That way when the Feds surround me, at least they can't cut off my power

[El Tejon]

Perhaps we will need a grass-roots movement to legally remove these people from office.  I leave the details to our legal eagles on this forum.

What luck!  We just happen to have such a grass-roots movement coming up this November.

[Werewolf]

I would love to have an independent solar power system for my compound.

That way when the Feds surround me, at least they can't cut off my power

Drill deep enough and you'll get to ground temps that will boil water (I'm not sure the depth but it isn't all that deep I think). I'm sure some engineer somewhere has thought of this - should be easy to do  but maybe expensive for the equipment. Pump coldwater down one hole - get low pressure steam up another. Steam drives a turbine connected to an electric generator. Voila - geothermal electric.

If this hasn't been done or at least investigated I just have to ask - WHY NOT?

[Tallpine]

Drill deep enough and you'll get to ground temps that will boil water

I'm going to need a bunch of extension shafts for my black & decker 

[Manedwolf]

I would love to have an independent solar power system for my compound.

That way when the Feds surround me, at least they can't cut off my power

Drill deep enough and you'll get to ground temps that will boil water (I'm not sure the depth but it isn't all that deep I think). I'm sure some engineer somewhere has thought of this - should be easy to do  but maybe expensive for the equipment. Pump coldwater down one hole - get low pressure steam up another. Steam drives a turbine connected to an electric generator. Voila - geothermal electric.

If this hasn't been done or at least investigated I just have to ask - WHY NOT?

Only if you're over a hotspot. The world's deepest mine, in the UK, is 6300 feet down (potash mine) and it's still only about 100 degrees down there.

[lupinus]

Maned-

I don't have a source but I recall some mines being well over 100, even the comstock mine being so hot people could only work for 30 minutes before resting in ice cooled cold rooms.

Like so many things it may not me practical in all areas but theres plenty of people who could do such a thing.

[K Frame]

"Still only 100 degrees down there..."

If that's true, that's a FAR lower temperature than what would be expected.

There's a steady increase in temperature the farther down you go.

It's the earth's coefficient of heat, or something like that. It's a steady state rise.

What I'm coming up with is that at 5 kilometers the base temperature of the earth should be in the 150 to 170 deg. F range.

The Swiss are investigating the possibily of doing what Werewolf is talking about.


"The world's deepest mine, in the UK, is 6300 feet down (potash mine)"

That's not even close to the world's deepest mine.

Those you find in South Africa. I believe that Tau Tona is still classified as the deepest mine, at something like 3,500 METERS. 

The East Rand diamond mine is also at about the same depth.


OOPS!

Just came across something from May that says the Mponeng mine in South Africa is now past 3,770 meters, and they've applied for recognition as the world's deepest mine.

[m1911owner]

Drill deep enough and you'll get to ground temps that will boil water (I'm not sure the depth but it isn't all that deep I think). I'm sure some engineer somewhere has thought of this - should be easy to do  but maybe expensive for the equipment. Pump coldwater down one hole - get low pressure steam up another. Steam drives a turbine connected to an electric generator. Voila - geothermal electric.

If this hasn't been done or at least investigated I just have to ask - WHY NOT?

That's where I was getting my power from when I lived in Santa Rosa, CA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geysers

[Tallpine]

The problem with geothermal is that pumping all that cool water way down there will cool off the earth's core and we will all freeze to death in 50 years. 

[wideym]

I'm growing tired of hearing "More drilling now won't show results for 10 years".  In ten years they will say "Why didn't you drill when you had the chance?", forgeting they didn't want drilling ten years before, just immediate results.  Let's drill now and hope that in 10 years we won't need the oil, but will have it just in case.

[Manedwolf]

I'm growing tired of hearing "More drilling now won't show results for 10 years".  In ten years they will say "Why didn't you drill when you had the chance?", forgeting they didn't want drilling ten years before, just immediate results.  Let's drill now and hope that in 10 years we won't need the oil, but will have it just in case.

Two factors, there. One, the dems bleated the same line ten years AGO.

Two, a speculative market trades in futures. If there is a future near certainty of increased supply, guess what futures prices do?

[xavier fremboe]

ALGORE was on MTP yesterday and Brokaw actually gently went after him about his house and private jet travel.  His response was that since he is getting all of his power from renewable resources, his house is 'carbon neutral', and most of the time he is now taking public transportation.  He said he was taking a Southwest Jet later that day.  Of course, with his security detail, his carbon footprint is still multiple X of any other passenger on the plane.  There are occasions where he still does have to jump into a Gulfstream to get someplace in a hurry.  He was unspecific as to the ratio of time he spent on the Greyhound of the skies vs. private jet.

The governor on Brokaw's spine kicked in so he let that line of questioning drop.

[wmenorr67]

ALGORE was on MTP yesterday and Brokaw actually gently went after him about his house and private jet travel.  His response was that since he is getting all of his power from renewable resources, his house is 'carbon neutral', and most of the time he is now taking public transportation.  He said he was taking a Southwest Jet later that day.  Of course, with his security detail, his carbon footprint is still multiple X of any other passenger on the plane.  There are occasions where he still does have to jump into a Gulfstream to get someplace in a hurry.  He was unspecific as to the ratio of time he spent on the Greyhound of the skies vs. private jet.

The governor on Brokaw's spine kicked in so he let that line of questioning drop.

I would like to see proof that all of his power is from renewable resources.  Unless he thinks hundreds of thousands of years is renewable.

[Manedwolf]

ALGORE was on MTP yesterday and Brokaw actually gently went after him about his house and private jet travel.  His response was that since he is getting all of his power from renewable resources, his house is 'carbon neutral', and most of the time he is now taking public transportation.  He said he was taking a Southwest Jet later that day.  Of course, with his security detail, his carbon footprint is still multiple X of any other passenger on the plane.  There are occasions where he still does have to jump into a Gulfstream to get someplace in a hurry.  He was unspecific as to the ratio of time he spent on the Greyhound of the skies vs. private jet.

The governor on Brokaw's spine kicked in so he let that line of questioning drop.

I would like to see proof that all of his power is from renewable resources.  Unless he thinks hundreds of thousands of years is renewable.

Perhaps there's just a large funnel over his home recording studio to capture the hot air and use it for power.

[Ben]

I would like to see proof that all of his power is from renewable resources.

A big 10-4 to that. I don't believe it for a second. They used his bills from the local utility company to calculate his usage. So he's the only one on that grid who they provide power to via renewable energy?

Plus, it's interesting that whenever I've done one of those "carbon footprint" surveys, my footprint goes up exponentially with just one commercial airline flight added. But he's bragging about how he's doing good by flying commercial. 

[mtnbkr]

He could be getting his power from one of the many dams in TN via the TVA.  It's renewable, but it's not as if he did anything special to achieve it.

Chris

[Ben]

He could be getting his power from one of the many dams in TN via the TVA.

Gotchya -- forgot there's parts of the country that actually have enough water to do that.

PS -- but what about the poor fish?  

[mtnbkr]

The poor fish can hold up dams as well.  I remember when I lived in TN, a large dam project was held up because of the Snail Darter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail_darter_controversy

Chris