Author Topic: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day  (Read 14377 times)

charby

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2008, 01:25:14 PM »
Egads, man.  It's a Riley Redux.

worse, looks like a lot of cut and pasting posting.

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Leatherneck

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2008, 02:02:49 PM »
Step 1. Nuke Tehran
Step 2. Nuke  Riyadh.
Step 3. Stay home and watch TV. Expect calls from Islamabad and Caracas making nice.

TC
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Gewehr98

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2008, 03:13:44 PM »
Gas just dropped a whopping nickel per gallon?  Say it ain't so!  We should all go out and buy a big-assed SUV, posthaste.  (Seeing that Ford posted record losses on the news today...)   rolleyes

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De Selby

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2008, 03:14:37 PM »
Gas just dropped a whopping nickel per gallon?  Say it ain't so!  We should all go out and buy a big-assed SUV, posthaste.  (Seeing that Ford posted record losses on the news today...)   rolleyes



I was thinking of that comic you posted as soon as I read about how all the great deals on SUV's were popping up...
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

seeker_two

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2008, 03:41:15 PM »
Egads, man.  It's a Riley Redux.

worse, looks like a lot of cut and pasting posting.



...and he's right....never had that from Riley.....
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2008, 03:59:47 PM »
Here is the definition of a free market economy.  I googled it as any of you could (especially you Mike Irwin)

Definition: A free market economy is an economy in which the allocation for resources is determined only by their supply and the demand for them. This is mainly a theoretical concept as every country, even capitalist ones, places some restrictions on the ownership and exchange of commodities.

A free market is a market in which prices of goods and services are arranged completely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. By definition, in a free market environment buyers and sellers do not coerce or mislead each other nor are they coerced by a third party.[1] In the aggregate, the effect of these decisions en masse is described by the law of supply and demand. Free markets contrast sharply with controlled markets or regulated markets, in which governments directly or indirectly regulate prices or supplies, distorting market signals.[2] In the marketplace the price of a good or service helps to quantify its value to consumers and thus balance it against other goods and services. In a free market, this relationship between price and value is a result of a plethora of voluntary transactions, rather than political decree as in a controlled market. Through competition between vendors for the provision of products and services, prices tend to decrease, and quality tends to increase. A free market is not to be confused with a perfect market where individuals have perfect information and there is perfect competition.
Free market economics is closely associated with laissez-faire economic philosophy, which advocates approximating this condition in the real world by mostly confining government intervention in economic matters to regulating against force and fraud among market participants. Hence, with government force limited to a defensive role, government itself does not initiate force in the marketplace beyond levying taxes in order to fund the maintenance of the free marketplace. Some free market advocates oppose taxation as well, claiming that the market is better at providing all valuable services of which defense and law are no exception, and that such services can be provided without direct taxation.


I am certain that someone with more patience than I have, or a better memory could give you many examples of governmental interference in the market place.  I lived in NYS during the 1974 supposed gas shortage.  The state government decided that it needed to interfere in the free market by dictating that gas stations could only sell to cars with even numbers ending their license plate and odd numbers ending their license plate on alternate days, and that you could only buy 10 gallons at a time.  If a free market economy were truly in place, you could have driven into any gas station with any license plate, on any given day and have purchased all the STATION OWNER would sell you at whatever price you and he negotiated.

I remember a story recently where a gas station owner decided he would give a 3% discount to athletic team boosters and Senior citizens.  I believe it was in Minnesota or Michigan.  THE STATE threatened to put him out of business because he was violating their rules on how to price his product.  Since they TAXED gasoline, they had to control the price to be certain the STATE got all the tax money it demanded from him.

If we lived in a truly free market economy, anyone with a product to sell, and the ambition to make it available, could stand on a street corner and sell it.  The market (consumers) would decide how much, if any of it they cared to purchase, and would agree on a price.  No governmental agency would interfere by requiring a business license, inspections, taxes on the sales, reporting of sales to the State or Federal taxing agency, or any of the plethora of other governmental intrusions into the free market economy.

The idea of environmentalists shutting down entire sections of our economy (such as the national logging industry) would be unthinkable.  If someone wanted to buy from a supposedly polluting industry they would be free to.  The market, not a special interest group, or the government, would decide to reward that company or industry by buying their wares for a mutually agreeable price.

If you think that a free market economy really exists in this country, you must have had different professors in your economics classes than I did.

K Frame

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2008, 07:02:42 PM »
Egads, man.  It's a Riley Redux.

worse, looks like a lot of cut and pasting posting.



And even worse than that, it appears to be about as accurate as most of Rilley's crap...
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2008, 08:08:33 PM »
I don't understand what your point is, Grandpa Shooter. 

The current market obviously isn't perfectly free.  Oil companies are restricted from adding new capacity.  Huge taxes are added to the price of gasoline. There are many restrictions on what kinds of gasoline may be sold, and where they may be sold from.  All of these restrictions on the free market drive prices up. 

That said, free market influences still hold sway.  Restrictions that limit supply will still increase demand and price.  It doesn't matter whether those restrictions are government-mandated instead of "naturally occurring".  Reduced supply is reduced supply.  Supply and demand are still the final arbiter of price.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2008, 08:13:07 PM »
Gas just dropped a whopping nickel per gallon?  Say it ain't so!  We should all go out and buy a big-assed SUV, posthaste.  (Seeing that Ford posted record losses on the news today...)   rolleyes


I don't understand your point, either.  Markets are cyclical, and people react to them cyclically.  We all know that.  People buy gas-guzzlers when gas is cheap, and people buy econoboxes when the price of gas is high.  What's wrong with that?  Should people buy cars that don't fit the times?

And yes, Ford posted record losses.  Gas prices aren't their problem, the fact that they make crappy cars is the problem.  Ford, like GM and Chrysler, will lose gobs of money and maybe go out of business.  They aren't building and selling good cars, the kind that people actually want to buy.  Why should people buy cars that don't fit their needs and wants?

De Selby

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2008, 10:09:48 PM »
And yes, Ford posted record losses.  Gas prices aren't their problem, the fact that they make crappy cars is the problem.  Ford, like GM and Chrysler, will lose gobs of money and maybe go out of business.  They aren't building and selling good cars, the kind that people actually want to buy.  Why should people buy cars that don't fit their needs and wants?

I guess it's just coincidence that sales of the main profit engines (suv's, large vehicles) free-fell with the rise in gas prices.

Supply is cyclical-which is why it makes sense to conserve the product, and not to become ridiculously dependent on its availability.

If you know that oil may not always be available, how smart is it to buy and act as if it will always be as available as it is right now?

The proper response to variations in supply is to plan so that times of inadequate supply don't disable the entire economcy, not to run around in panic mode coming up with half-baked solutions when it's not possible to fuel all the machines we bought last year on this year's oil supply.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

seeker_two

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2008, 01:44:18 AM »
OK....now shootinstudent is starting to sound sensible to me....
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macadore

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2008, 03:31:05 AM »
Egads, man.  It's a Riley Redux.

worse, looks like a lot of cut and pasting posting.


My father worked in the oilfield for 40 years. I worked in the Oilfield for 35 years. We both had our own businesses and owned oil and gas wells. I worked overseas in the oilfields and have numerous friends who did as well. I worked in the countries of which I speak and talked at length with their oil company representatives.

You cant refute my facts or logic so you libel me and dismiss my argument based on your libel. Thats weak.

Ben

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2008, 04:48:37 AM »
Quote
when it's not possible to fuel all the machines we bought last year on this year's oil supply.

You're kidding right? Whether someone can afford an SUV or not is something else entirely, and the responsibility of the auto buyer. If you're buying a $50K SUV or $50K BMW instead of a $12K Ford Focus, money to put fuel in the vehicle shouldn't be an issue, or you shouldn't be buying that expensive of a vehicle.

We don't have an issue of not having enough oil nationally to "fuel all machines". I haven't seen any "out of gas" signs at any gas stations anywhere.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2008, 04:52:01 AM »
You're kidding right? Whether someone can afford an SUV or not is something else entirely, and the responsibility of the auto buyer. If you're buying a $50K SUV or $50K BMW instead of a $12K Ford Focus, money to put fuel in the vehicle shouldn't be an issue, or you shouldn't be buying that expensive of a vehicle.

Wait'll they ask for a vehicle financing assistance bill to "keep people in their cars" so they can "get to work" with "alternatives to repossession". Bail out the people who bought vehicles beyond their means to make the payments on or afford to keep fueled.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2008, 04:55:47 AM »
Quote
eople buy gas-guzzlers when gas is cheap, and people buy econoboxes when the price of gas is high

And of course, with modern technology, a modern 'gas-guzzler' consumes less fuel than a 1970's 'econobox', but you don't see the greens telling you that.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2008, 05:35:00 AM »
Egads, man.  It's a Riley Redux.

Put your tinfoil hat back on......
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Nick1911

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2008, 05:43:09 AM »
Quote
eople buy gas-guzzlers when gas is cheap, and people buy econoboxes when the price of gas is high

And of course, with modern technology, a modern 'gas-guzzler' consumes less fuel than a 1970's 'econobox', but you don't see the greens telling you that.

My reading on the topic suggest otherwise.  Do you have a source?

Tallpine

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2008, 06:54:27 AM »
I don't remember precisely, but it seems like we only got about 22mpg on our old ~1965 VW Bug  undecided

It seemed like a lot compared to 8-10mpg for a 4wd p/u or the C-60 truck Wink
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2008, 07:00:04 AM »
And yes, Ford posted record losses.  Gas prices aren't their problem, the fact that they make crappy cars is the problem.  Ford, like GM and Chrysler, will lose gobs of money and maybe go out of business.  They aren't building and selling good cars, the kind that people actually want to buy.  Why should people buy cars that don't fit their needs and wants?

I guess it's just coincidence that sales of the main profit engines (suv's, large vehicles) free-fell with the rise in gas prices.

The  Big Three have been losing money for many years.  They haven't made a decent car in years, either.  Their problems predate $4 gas.  Rising gas prices were the last nail in the coffin, killing their only profitable vehicles (trucks).  But gas prices could drop to zero tomorrow, and the Big Three would still lose money.  They simply can't make a decent car to save their lives. 

I'd still like to know what's wrong with people buying the cars they want, as opposed to crappy Ford or GM cars.
Supply is cyclical-which is why it makes sense to conserve the product, and not to become ridiculously dependent on its availability.

If you know that oil may not always be available, how smart is it to buy and act as if it will always be as available as it is right now?

The proper response to variations in supply is to plan so that times of inadequate supply don't disable the entire economcy, not to run around in panic mode coming up with half-baked solutions when it's not possible to fuel all the machines we bought last year on this year's oil supply.
I agree completely.  The response to volatile supply and volatile demand is to ensure that there is enough excess supply in the system to cover demand when it's at it peaks.  Excess supply is necessary to buffer out the variations in both supply and demand. 

We wanted to to this back in 2000.  We foresaw the problems that were coming and we tried to plan ahead to address them.  We tried to begin developing increased supply in Alaska and the coastal areas, but the greenies and their "Just say no" attitude prevented any action.  Inevitably, we find ourselves in a situation we're in today.  We don't have that excess supply we need, and the volatility is driving demand above supply, just like we knew would happen.

All we hear about today are half half-baked solutions to run our cars on food and natural gas.  If y'all want to develop your alternative energy solutions, I won't stop you.  I only ask that you do it with your own dime, and that you quit obstructing the rest of us who want to use more effective solutions. 

Isn't that the way things ought to be?  We let you develop your alternatives, you let us develop our mainstream solutions, and the marketplace is the final judge...?

mtnbkr

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2008, 07:01:19 AM »
I don't remember precisely, but it seems like we only got about 22mpg on our old ~1965 VW Bug  undecided

That pretty much jives with my experiences having owned a 72 Bug for 6 years.  I got mph in the high teens to low 20s around town and low to mid 30s on the highway.  I don't consider the Beetle to be a good example of that generation's econobox though.  I'd like to see data from early Hondas, Toyotas, Fords, Chevys, etc. 

I think the biggest difference now is today's econobox gets good mileage while having all the bells and whistles.  My Bug didn't get 30mph with AC, electric locks/windows, etc, but my Camry does.

Chris

charby

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2008, 07:02:46 AM »
I don't remember precisely, but it seems like we only got about 22mpg on our old ~1965 VW Bug  undecided

It seemed like a lot compared to 8-10mpg for a 4wd p/u or the C-60 truck Wink

I had an 1987 Suzuki Samauri, 1.3 litre engine if I recall correctly. It got 20 mpg on the highway.

I have a 1998 GMC Jimmy 4.3 litre engins and it gets 21 mpg on the highway.

on a side note

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

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Tallpine

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2008, 07:09:32 AM »
Quote
My Bug didn't get 30mph with AC, electric locks/windows, etc, but my Camry does.

Our Bug was air-conditioned in the winter and heated in the summer  grin
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

charby

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2008, 08:09:07 AM »
Egads, man.  It's a Riley Redux.

worse, looks like a lot of cut and pasting posting.


My father worked in the oilfield for 40 years. I worked in the Oilfield for 35 years. We both had our own businesses and owned oil and gas wells. I worked overseas in the oilfields and have numerous friends who did as well. I worked in the countries of which I speak and talked at length with their oil company representatives.

You cant refute my facts or logic so you libel me and dismiss my argument based on your libel. Thats weak.


Did you think the middle east gave us cheap oil because they wanted to make quick money? Labor has to be cheaper in the middle east then the U.S. so they could afford to sell oil for less money. Isn't oil easier to get at in the Middle East than the American oil fields?

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2008, 08:13:19 AM »
Egads, man.  It's a Riley Redux.

worse, looks like a lot of cut and pasting posting.


My father worked in the oilfield for 40 years. I worked in the Oilfield for 35 years. We both had our own businesses and owned oil and gas wells. I worked overseas in the oilfields and have numerous friends who did as well. I worked in the countries of which I speak and talked at length with their oil company representatives.

You cant refute my facts or logic so you libel me and dismiss my argument based on your libel. Thats weak.

It's not your facts that are wrong (although they could be wrong, I haven't bothered to verify them, the line about oil companies setting the price of oil is highly suspicious).  It's your interpretations and conclusions that I think are way off base.

Markets are cyclical, and all companies will act in their best interests.  There's nothing sinister or conspiratorial about it.  Next time, deploy Occam's Razor before you deploy the tinfoil.   

De Selby

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Re: Analyst Says Prices Could Go To $3.50 A Gallon By Labor Day
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2008, 08:48:39 AM »
Quote
when it's not possible to fuel all the machines we bought last year on this year's oil supply.

You're kidding right? Whether someone can afford an SUV or not is something else entirely, and the responsibility of the auto buyer. If you're buying a $50K SUV or $50K BMW instead of a $12K Ford Focus, money to put fuel in the vehicle shouldn't be an issue, or you shouldn't be buying that expensive of a vehicle.

We don't have an issue of not having enough oil nationally to "fuel all machines". I haven't seen any "out of gas" signs at any gas stations anywhere.

Money to put fuel in the vehicle is always an issue-more money to put fuel in today, less money to do something else, and less fuel period. 

We do clearly have an issue of money being a problem when fuel skyrockets in price.  And it's entirely foreseeable that it won't be available in the quantity that it is now.

Just because you haven't seen an out of gas sign lately doesn't mean the supply is uninterruptible, or that the price cannot reach a point where it's impossible to fill your SUV.

It looks like you're on the same page as me here, actually, since you advocate buying a cheaper vehicle to account for increased fuel prices.  My idea is the same, except instead of just allocating more money for gas, I think it's a good idea to develop alternatives so that varying fuel prices don't cripple your budget.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."