Author Topic: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?  (Read 3415 times)

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« on: July 24, 2008, 08:37:24 PM »
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/24/should-your-vote-still-count-if-youre-dead/

Quote
If you vote by mail, but die before Election Day, does your vote count? It depends on where you lived.

Oregon counts ballots no matter what happens to the voter. So does Florida. But in South Dakota, if you die before the election, so does your vote.

Increasingly popular mail-in ballots mean voters can now choose candidates up to 60 days before an election, raising new questions about an age-old phenomenon normally associated with chicanery in places like Chicago: What should be done with the ballots of the recently dead?

Laws in at least a dozen states are evenly split between tallying and dumping the votes. No one keeps records on how often such deaths occur.

Yet in this years contentious campaign, the right of every American to a counted ballot has become a rallying cry  even if the voter dies before the tallying starts.

Take the case of Florence Steen, an ailing 88-year-old grandmother born before women had the right to vote. One of her last wishes was to vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton. She wanted to be part of history, said her daughter Kathy Krause.

Steen was confined to a hospice bed in Rapid City, S.D., when she was brought an absentee ballot weeks before the June 3 primary. She studied it a long time, then marked her choice with such determination her daughter feared she would poke through the paper.

Steen died on Mothers Day. With a heavy heart, her daughter took the ballot and dropped it in a mailbox. In my mind, her vote counted, Krause said. My mother believed she had voted for a woman to be president.

But the women down at the county courthouse told Krause the ballot had to be tossed because state law declared a voter must be alive on Election Day.

So Krause passed that word to the Clinton campaign. And Clinton drew great applause when she told the story in her concession speech four days after the South Dakota primary.

Its just a goofy law, and it needs to be changed, said Krause, who plans to lobby state legislators to reverse that statute just as soon as her grief eases.

What about the soldiers in Iraq? What if they vote and theyre killed in action, God forbid? Should we take away their vote because they died for their country?

There are no military standards governing voting by soldiers. Rather, their mailed-in ballots are counted at the individual election districts where they are registered to vote. But like civilian votes, no one keeps track of whether the ballots of soldiers are thrown out because they died after casting them.

No one can tell you that, said Susan Dzieduszycka-Suinat, head of the Overseas Voting Foundation in Munich. Every single election jurisdiction can do it the way it wants. And there are more than 7,000 of them.

Thirty-one states allow some form of early voting.

Ballots cast by the dead are usually the focus of fraud allegations, as happened in Washingtons extremely tight 2004 gubernatorial race, decided by a margin of 129 votes out of 3 million cast. More than a dozen ballots were linked to dead people.

But some advocates say legitimate, mail-in votes from people who die before Election Day should be counted, particularly in rural elections, where races can hang on a handful of votes.

In Montana, there have been several legislative seats decided by one, two, three votes, said Tim Storey of the National Conference of State Legislatures, an organization that recently looked at 12 mostly Western states and found that half have no rules governing ballots of the deceased.

Those remaining states  Colorado, Idaho, Minnesota and Utah  demand that such ballots be rejected, leaving Montana and Oregon as the only states that count them.

South Dakota Secretary of State Chris Nelson said he doesnt understand why a dead persons vote should be counted.

In my mind, its clear, Nelson said. You have to be a qualified voter on Election Day. I dont know how someone can say youre a qualified voter if youre deceased.

Pam Smith, director of the advocacy group Verified Voting, disagrees: By definition, the day you cast a ballot is Election Day. Thats it.

Mail-in ballots arrived in record numbers during this years protracted primary season.

In Californias San Diego County, for example, 45 percent of the presidential vote arrived by mail. Similar numbers surfaced across the country. Election experts have predicted that as many as 25 percent of voters will vote by mail in November.

Dan Seligson, an editor at electionline.org, a voter watchdog organization, said ballots from the recently deceased could affect the contentious presidential showdown between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain.

It could be a great contribution to any legal challenge, he said. Thats what happened in 2000, when we had this perfect storm of questions about ballot counts, ballot designs, and dead voters.

Mixed feelings on this.  The military angle is an interesting scenario.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Regolith

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,171
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 11:31:34 PM »
Quote
South Dakota Secretary of State Chris Nelson said he doesnt understand why a dead persons vote should be counted.

In my mind, its clear, Nelson said. You have to be a qualified voter on Election Day. I dont know how someone can say youre a qualified voter if youre deceased.

Bingo.  If you're dead, there's no way your vote should count.  Too many dead people vote in our elections as it is.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 02:00:20 AM »
What? No mention of the Chicago policy on this?.....  laugh
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 02:17:18 AM »
What? No mention of the Chicago policy on this?.....  laugh

Actually, there is:

Quote

Increasingly popular mail-in ballots mean voters can now choose candidates up to 60 days before an election, raising new questions about an age-old phenomenon normally associated with chicanery in places like Chicago: What should be done with the ballots of the recently dead?

[/pedant]
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

ilbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,546
    • Bob's blog
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 05:03:53 AM »
The constitution says the election is on a certain day. if you are not alive on that day, you have no vote.
bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 05:05:57 AM »
The constitution says the election is on a certain day. if you are not alive on that day, you have no vote.

Please show me where the Constitution says such a thing:

http://constitution.org/constit_.htm

http://constitution.org/afterte_.htm
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Tuco

  • Fastest non-sequitur in the West.
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,100
  • If you miss you had better miss very well
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2008, 05:08:47 AM »
I'm not dead yet!!!
7-11 was a part time job.

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if You’re Dead?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2008, 10:14:39 AM »
I'm not dead yet!!!

[Mike Irwin voice] Try harder...... [/Mike Irwin voice]
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

FTA84

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 11:06:55 AM »
Maybe you should get to vote in the year of your death, after all, you pay taxes in the year of your death......

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 11:25:56 AM »
Quote
Too many brain dead people vote in our elections as it is.

Fixed it for you ... Wink
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2008, 01:49:41 PM »
If the poor woman wanted to vote for Hillary so badly, why didn't she make sure to stay alive long enough to do it?

 angel

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Should Your Vote Still Count if Youre Dead?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2008, 01:52:13 PM »
"He's dead, Jim! Game over, man, game over!"
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner