Author Topic: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification  (Read 51638 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #175 on: August 25, 2008, 12:49:09 PM »
was that a yes or no?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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richyoung

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #176 on: August 25, 2008, 01:02:18 PM »
was that a yes or no?


Its a "not germaine to the discussion" - so why are you bringing it up?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #177 on: August 25, 2008, 01:24:23 PM »
its ok  in your shoes i would be afraid to answer a simple yes or no too
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #178 on: August 25, 2008, 01:54:12 PM »
Last week Eddlem said he would have voted to convict Luisi in a state court; he simply felt there were no grounds for a federal prosecution. He opposes nullification, he added in an e-mail, but judges who ignore the Constitution pose a far greater threat than a "handful of 'nullification' radicals."

interesting view and self description

good thing john birch has paid staff positions for folks

and i'll not cry a river for a mafia coke dealer twice convicted
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

richyoung

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #179 on: August 26, 2008, 04:51:35 AM »
its ok  in your shoes i would be afraid to answer a simple yes or no too

Yes, I'm sure you would...
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

richyoung

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #180 on: August 26, 2008, 04:56:02 AM »
Last week Eddlem said he would have voted to convict Luisi in a state court; he simply felt there were no grounds for a federal prosecution. He opposes nullification, he added in an e-mail, but judges who ignore the Constitution pose a far greater threat than a "handful of 'nullification' radicals."

interesting view and self description

good thing john birch has paid staff positions for folks

and i'll not cry a river for a mafia coke dealer twice convicted


..and here is where you fail.  Justice isn't "Justice" unless EVERYONE gets it.  Even a "twice convicted mafia coke dealer".  The reason WHY, is that the minute you let government take shortcuts on the way to punishment, you may eventually find the government taking shortcuts to ALL punishment.  Leberty, justice, freedom - none of those are free.  They all come at a variety of costs.  One of those costs is eternal vigalence - the contstant observation of tha actions o fthe governemnt, and when it over-steps its bounds, doing something about it.  The minute we allow shortcuts, even for the least of us - the pedophiles, dopers, rapists - is the minute that leads to the end of justice for all.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

The Annoyed Man

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #181 on: August 26, 2008, 05:46:38 AM »
Well said.  But, the only problem I have with jury nullification is by whose standards does the jury decide whaen a law should not be followed.  The criminal justice system is set up with different standards and burdens.  Burden of proof on the State, standard being proof beyond a reasonable doubt.  But, there are no similar provisions for jury nullification.  Let's say that the jury believes the war on marihuana is a waste of time, and as a group they decide not to convict a small time dealer for that reason.  Okay, fine.  It's a message to the legislature to look at the laws on the books and consider public opinion on  the issue.  But what happens when you get one juror who thinks that jury nulification means "I get to screw with the system"?  Or maybe has some weird philosophical bent against the criminal justice system?

Typically, one juror would result in a hung jury at best.  But think of the expenses involved in a hung jury.  Not only to the state but also to the defense.

I believe that jury nullification should simply exist openly, with standards put in place that the jury must follow.  Perhaps a majority vote on the laws at issue before addressing the issue of guilt or innocence...

richyoung

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #182 on: August 26, 2008, 07:52:37 AM »
On a lesser, temporay scale, the same thing that happens when a DA or judge "screws with the system", (Duke lacross team, anyone?  Judge Ito?). 
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roo_ster

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #183 on: August 26, 2008, 10:08:25 AM »
I don't buy the "standardization of JN" argument. 

All others who wield power in the system have quite a bit of discretion: beat cop, prosecutor, judge.  Why ought the juror be shackled when the others have discretion and make decisions every bit as momentous to the defendant?

JN is there as a power to counter the power of cop, prosecutor, and judge.  Yet another check and balance in the system.  I expect to see that power used inappropriately at times, just as all other power wielded by agents of the state is used inappropriately at times.

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

K Frame

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #184 on: August 26, 2008, 10:16:03 AM »
Judge Ito?

Say what?

He still sits on the bench as an LA Superior Court Judge.

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

richyoung

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Re: Unacceptable: Judge nullifies juror nullification
« Reply #185 on: August 27, 2008, 06:55:06 AM »
Judge Ito?

Say what?

He still sits on the bench as an LA Superior Court Judge.

Should have been removed from office for allowing the OJ trial to become a circus AND allowing the defense to essentially put the LA police department on trial.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...