Author Topic: theological philosophy (Read 37796 times)

Strings · « **on:** September 17, 2005, 12:14:42 PM »

Well... the "Intelligent Design..." thread got me to thinking that a nice, calm discussion among us about the philosophy behind our respective faiths might be entertaining...

Now... quick ground rules: we are NOT here to try and convert each other. Personally, anybody that PMs me and says "your logic has converted me to" will be shot in the butt repeatedly with a hopped-up paintball gun at close range...

So... any takers?

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2005, 12:40:45 PM »

God and I have reached a sort of mutual understanding: I'll do my best to live by his commandments, and he won't take me so seriously as to require me to go to church. I don't think he takes me seriously anyway since, after all, it was He who created me.

Guest · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2005, 12:42:06 PM »

I'm a monotheist.

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2005, 01:23:57 PM »

Benjamin Franklin once said "Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy."

In the buckle of the Bible Belt, aka Baptist central, I am a bit of an anomaly.
I like the feelgood fellowship of the Baptists, the contemplative depth of monastic Catholicism a la St. Thomas Aquinas and Thomas Merton; the zenlike qualities of Quaker thought along the lines of Richard C. Foster, and even the "big picture" grandeur of the American Transcendentalists, of whom Emerson was intellectually the Mac Daddy of them all.

Rather than cowering before a stern and vengeful deity, I prefer to think He actually LIKES the "crown of His creation" (humanity), and kind of likes to help us work out the meaning behind the temporal experiences of life, and sort of have His kids hang out with Him and enjoy the ride.

I'm also frequently accused of being more than a little insane, too, so take what *I* tell you with a grain of salt.

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

jefnvk · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2005, 01:26:19 PM »

Quote

God and I have reached a sort of mutual understanding: I'll do my best to live by his commandments, and he won't take me so seriously as to require me to go to church. I don't think he takes me seriously anyway since, after all, it was He who created me.

Couldn't ahve said it any better myself. Do you mind if I borrow that (properly attributed, of course)?

Moondoggie · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2005, 01:59:20 PM »

I don't know what the nature of the supreme being is, but I do think there is one.

I think that we are created spiritual beings and that our existence here is less than the blink of an eye compared to our eternal existence. "Forever" includes the far distant past as well as the future.

I think that we are "reincarnated", but I don't get wrapped around the axel trying to figure what I was in past lives. I have no idea if we have any choice in the matter or if it's totally random, or if there's some sort of grand design at work.

I think that any animal that nurtures their offspring has a soul.

I describe my philosophy as "Zen Existentialism".

I do know that countless thousands of people have been slaughtered for no other reason than one group having a defferent belief system than another...very notably among Christians. One group of folks imposing their beliefs upon another is one of the things that brings my blood to a boil the fastest.

"I dont know where we come from,
Dont' know where we're going to,
But if all this should have a reason,
Then we would be the last to know,
So let's just hope there is a promised land,
Hang on til then,
Best as you can." Steppenwolf..."Rock Me"

I really, really, REALLY tried Christianity but it just never made sense to me.

I do believe very strongly in principles of "Good" and "Right" in my personal conduct, but it has nothing to do with religion.

Standing Wolf · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2005, 06:18:53 PM »

Lifelong atheist.

My kitty keeps trying to persuade me to worship the Great Cat.

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #7 on:** September 17, 2005, 06:42:45 PM »

Former christian.
Saw the light, became an Atheist.

Stand_watie · « **Reply #8 on:** September 17, 2005, 06:52:03 PM »

Quote

thread got me to thinking that a nice, calm discussion among us about the philosophy behind our respective faiths might be entertaining...

Fat chance.

I will attempt (poorly I'm sure) to encapsulate my philosophy (orthodox Christianity) by quoting King David and King Solomon and the apostle Paul (who quoted them in the same passage).

Psalm 14
For the director of music. Of David.
1 The fool [a] says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.

3 All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

Ecclesiastes 7

20 There is not a righteous man on earth
who does what is right and never sins.

Romans 3

Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

And for our irreligious friends

Romans 2

14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2005, 07:20:27 PM »

Your logic has converted me not to proselityze in this thread.

Ron · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:09:26 PM »

God is perfect

I am not perfect

He grants me access to Him now and when I die through His Son The Christ who will make me perfect.

In the meanwhile He wants me to muddle through and love you guys and gals (even you athiests and pagans).

Basic Christianity,

Quote

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

Strings · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:40:48 PM »

cool... I get to disagree with almost everybody (btw fistful... what's your shoe size?)... Cheesy

I think Divinity is something WAY beyond the understanding of Man. Just no way we can understand all of it. Which is, I think, the reason for so many different religions. Christians understand one segment, Jews an area close (even overlapping a bit), the Hindus another, Pagans yet another. None of us get it "completely correct": we only get the pieces that we are able to understand...

Subby · « **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2005, 10:23:29 PM »

As my old boss would say, I suffer from a "lack of interest."

Or as old Clint said "Buzzards gotta eat, same as the worms"

Sub

TarpleyG · « **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2005, 04:02:45 AM »

I believe in a god but not your typical run of the mill "we are created in his image" sort of thing. I do not believe we are created in god's image anymore than my dog is. I guess what I am saying is that I do not put a face or a body on god. Something has to be in command of all this. I don't care for churches or what they stand for. I am more of a "your body is a temple" sort of guy. I try and be a good person and expect the same in return. I do not believe there is a satan and I am not sure what to think of the heaven and hell concept. I don't know what happens when we die, but I hope it's something nice. I believe that there was a man named Jesus once upon a time and he was a good man that did good deeds but I don't believe he was the son of god and I don't believe he was immacuately conceived.

That's what I believe and I am most likely wrong but think about this--what is we are all right in our own beliefs? Talk about mind blowing.

Greg

grampster · « **Reply #14 on:** September 18, 2005, 06:27:52 AM »

Sounds like the caveat of this thread is our singular opinion and not a platform for debate. In that spirit.....

I'm a Christian by choice and I muddle through that reality as best I can, trusting what I know. I gain more knowledge of the reality of my faith almost on a daily basis, especially when I betray my own principals. I am surprised when I find a particular passage of scripture suddenly becoming either clear or have meaning.
An observation or a thought might be the engine of that revelation.

I don't claim to have a total understanding of the ramifications of my faith; and I might never. I try and live my life in a fashion that perhaps others might wonder about me in that regard. As a result, I am more disapointed in my own shortcomings than I am of what I believe are the shortcomings of others. If people ask about my faith I respond. For me, I believe it is better to proselytise by deed rather than by voice.

I believe every person has a yearning for God and that a person's circumstances dictates the manner of the revelation of the reality of that yearning.
I also believe that every "faith" (I include atheism as a faith) in existance on earth at any given time, somehow leads to Jesus in some fashion. (Again, this thread is about individual opinion, remember!)

I believe every person is an island when it comes to making decisions of faith. As such I find a great deal of comfort and understanding in the Bible; especially the counsel of Jeremiah in the 17th chapter of his book, the 5th through the 8th verses. Those verses are especially vivid at the times when I grasp my failings in my dealings with others and particularly with myself.

Iain · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2005, 06:59:31 AM »

Was raised Christian, had a very active Christian life in my early to mid teens and then some things happened that led me to make a typical self-obsessed 17 year old decision. I left the church and left christianity in general.

Since then the reasons have changed, and maybe even become a little more mature, but the decision remains.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2005, 01:16:01 PM »

Quote from: Hunter Rose

cool... I get to disagree with almost everybody (btw fistful... what's your shoe size?)... Cheesy

I think Divinity is something WAY beyond the understanding of Man. Just no way we can understand all of it. Which is, I think, the reason for so many different religions. Christians understand one segment, Jews an area close (even overlapping a bit), the Hindus another, Pagans yet another. None of us get it "completely correct": we only get the pieces that we are able to understand...

Quote from: TarpleyG

what if we are all right in our own beliefs? Talk about mind blowing.

Talk about completely stinkin' impossible.

HR, the religions you're describing believe in gods that differ significantly from one another. How can they all describe the same "Divine;" and if they do, why pay any attention to any of them? If all of these religions are valid, then why not add another? Do whatever you want.

Someone is gonna have to explain the pink shoe thing to me. And they're a 13, thank you very much.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2005, 01:43:38 PM »

Maybe I shouldn't have been so glib in my first post, especially on a serious subject.

Going to church on Sunday was a big part of my upbringing. My social life revolved around the kids I knew from church, and from church-related activities. Even our Boy Scout troop met at the church, so almost no activity I was involved in (including shooting on the rifle league) didn't have some association with the church.

Like Iain, all that changed when I reached age 17 and gained infinite wisdom.

I never returned to the church in an organized way, but I've never lost the teachings, either. And I still pray, for family members, friends, those in need, and ocassionally for guidance in my own troubled times.

While I don't believe in a Satan as depicted in, say, "The Exorcist," I do believe that Evil exists. I think we've all seen it plainly in the events of the past four years, and we know about it from history. It's difficult to explain people like Hitler or Stalin without embracing the existence of Evil.

I also don't believe in a white-bearded God looking down upon us, but I believe in some sort of God. What he/she/it consists of is another question.

As for an afterlife, it's hard for me to fathom what that might be, but I hope it exists. I'll still be needing to make mortgage payments.

grampster · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2005, 04:24:51 PM »

Maybe the mortgage has been paid, Dick.

Stand_watie · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2005, 07:52:36 PM »

Quote

Christians understand one segment, Jews an area close (even overlapping a bit), .

Jews (Orthodox Jews, which seem to me to be a minority) and orthodox (again minority) Christians have a larger overlap than I think they are even commonly understood to have, the chief disagreement seeming to be the identity of the Messiah. Some historians consider Christianity to be a wierd off-shoot cult of Judaism.

Quote

the Hindus another, Pagans yet another

I for one would consider myself arrogant to not consider that other religions don't have a better grasp of certain facets of religious philosophy than my own (not the biggest picture, or I'd convert

)

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2005, 08:14:45 PM »

Stand_watie: "I for one would consider myself arrogant to not consider that other religions don't have a better grasp of certain facets of religious philosophy than my own (not the biggest picture, or I'd convert )"

Yeah, well, you've never seen Hunter Rose in tights or a kilt. In fact, neither have I, although he's threatened to show me. Wink

280plus · « **Reply #21 on:** September 19, 2005, 01:01:23 AM »

Quote

1 The fool [a] says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

Well, there you go again. Unless we "believe" we are "fools", "corrupt", "vile" and can do no good.

Nope, no pressure there. rolleyes

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #22 on:** September 19, 2005, 03:34:14 AM »

280, quit your belly-achin'!

Quote from: Stand_watie

Jews (Orthodox Jews, which seem to me to be a minority) and orthodox (again minority) Christians have a larger overlap than I think they are even commonly understood to have, the chief disagreement seeming to be the identity of the Messiah. Some historians consider Christianity to be a wierd off-shoot cult of Judaism.

Consider the origins of Christianity. A group of Jews believed that a certain man was the promised Messiah and thier religious practices changed. Isn't it the case, really, that Christianity and modern Judaism are both off-shoots of historical Judaism?

280plus · « **Reply #23 on:** September 19, 2005, 06:12:20 AM »

Quote

280, quit your belly-achin'!

Is that all I'm doing? Oops, my mistake... shocked

Strings · « **Reply #24 on:** September 19, 2005, 07:16:43 AM »

heh... a Sikh friend of mine in Thailand has a picture on his wall: it's of the Earth, surrounded by all the symbols of different religions. Across the top, it reads "God is One, and We are All His Children". Seems a much better way of dealing with religious differenc than so many use...

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Author Topic: theological philosophy (Read 37796 times)

Strings

Guest

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

Ron

Strings

Strings