Author Topic: theological philosophy  (Read 37793 times)

The Rabbi

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theological philosophy
« Reply #175 on: October 08, 2005, 04:28:14 PM »
Quote from: Stand_watie
Quote from: The Rabbi
No, I am not.  Sorry.  I really do not see what you see in Ezekiel.

I wont begin to get into what you have just shown with Luke 13.
O.k. We'll just disagree.
In order to disagree I would have to know what you see.  You refuse to explain it, which is certainly your prerogative.  But I couldnt count that as a disagreement.
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Stand_watie

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« Reply #176 on: October 08, 2005, 04:46:09 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
Quote from: Stand_watie
Quote from: The Rabbi
No, I am not.  Sorry.  I really do not see what you see in Ezekiel.

I wont begin to get into what you have just shown with Luke 13.
O.k. We'll just disagree.
In order to disagree I would have to know what you see.  You refuse to explain it, which is certainly your prerogative.  But I couldnt count that as a disagreement.
I didn't explain it, because I so strongly suspected that you knew exactly what I was referring to and were trying to play the nitpicking professor. All the Rabbi's I've known so far have been intimate with Christian "misinterpetations" of OT prophecy. If you aren't, I apologize.

I was referring to Ezekiel and Isaiah's allegories of the the falls of the kings of Tyre and Babylonia to that of the fall of Lucifer described in Revelation.
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The Rabbi

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« Reply #177 on: October 09, 2005, 06:47:55 AM »
Quote from: Stand_watie
I was referring to Ezekiel and Isaiah's allegories of the the falls of the kings of Tyre and Babylonia to that of the fall of Lucifer described in Revelation.
OK, you'll admit that using a theory that proposes that Ezekial's prophecy actually alludes to an event written about several hundred years later to prove that angels have free will is not exactly the most persuasive argument in the world, right?
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Stand_watie

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« Reply #178 on: October 09, 2005, 02:17:29 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
Quote from: Stand_watie
I was referring to Ezekiel and Isaiah's allegories of the the falls of the kings of Tyre and Babylonia to that of the fall of Lucifer described in Revelation.
OK, you'll admit that using a theory that proposes that Ezekial's prophecy actually alludes to an event written about several hundred years later to prove that angels have free will is not exactly the most persuasive argument in the world, right?
No I won't do any such thing. (although Ezekiel's prophecy is merely a drop in the bucket of the argument, only a very small proof - the words of Christ, the apostle Paul and St. John are much more telling) The dates of the writing of the books of Revelation and Ezekiel are irrelevant for anyone who believes, as most orthodox Christians do, that they are both inspired Word.

I'd caution that "persuasive arguments" in matters of faith are entirely subjective to worldview. I'm sure there are many on the board who find both of our positions that there is even any evidence of the existence of Angels amusing.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"

The Rabbi

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« Reply #179 on: October 09, 2005, 03:12:43 PM »
Quote from: Stand_watie
Quote from: The Rabbi
Quote from: Stand_watie
I was referring to Ezekiel and Isaiah's allegories of the the falls of the kings of Tyre and Babylonia to that of the fall of Lucifer described in Revelation.
OK, you'll admit that using a theory that proposes that Ezekial's prophecy actually alludes to an event written about several hundred years later to prove that angels have free will is not exactly the most persuasive argument in the world, right?
No I won't do any such thing. (although Ezekiel's prophecy is merely a drop in the bucket of the argument, only a very small proof - the words of Christ, the apostle Paul and St. John are much more telling) The dates of the writing of the books of Revelation and Ezekiel are irrelevant for anyone who believes, as most orthodox Christians do, that they are both inspired Word.

I'd caution that "persuasive arguments" in matters of faith are entirely subjective to worldview. I'm sure there are many on the board who find both of our positions that there is even any evidence of the existence of Angels amusing.
I dont see how believing them both to be inspired word (whatever that means) means that the earlier gets its meaning by allusion to the later, as opposed to what it means on the surface level.  trhe only possible example I could come up with would be Deut 13:2.
But if you are unwilling to admit a basic premise in textual examination then there is really nothing more to talk about.  Thanks.
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Stand_watie

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« Reply #180 on: October 09, 2005, 03:52:09 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
Quote from: Stand_watie
Quote from: The Rabbi
OK, you'll admit that using a theory that proposes that Ezekial's prophecy actually alludes to an event written about several hundred years later to prove that angels have free will is not exactly the most persuasive argument in the world, right?
No I won't do any such thing. (although Ezekiel's prophecy is merely a drop in the bucket of the argument, only a very small proof - the words of Christ, the apostle Paul and St. John are much more telling) The dates of the writing of the books of Revelation and Ezekiel are irrelevant for anyone who believes, as most orthodox Christians do, that they are both inspired Word.

I'd caution that "persuasive arguments" in matters of faith are entirely subjective to worldview. I'm sure there are many on the board who find both of our positions that there is even any evidence of the existence of Angels amusing.
I dont see how believing them both to be inspired word (whatever that means) means that the earlier gets its meaning by allusion to the later, as opposed to what it means on the surface level.
But if you are unwilling to admit a basic premise in textual examination then there is really nothing more to talk about.  Thanks.
If you don't know what 'inspired word' means, then I can see the confusion. I apologize for making assumptions about your educational background based upon your username and my own limited experience.

I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you accepted Ezekiel and Isaiah as prophets with direct revelation from God. If that's not the case, then discussing what otherwise would be the rantings of lunatics is pointless. If that assumption was correct, then the time frame at which various prophecies are codified has no relevance whatsoever  regarding my belief that part of the meaning of the passage can be elucidated upon by other prophecies.

A basic premise in textual examination is a good start, but without an underlying belief that God can reveal otherwise humanly unknowable matters to man, is nothing more than an excercise in the study of historical documents.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"

Stand_watie

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theological philosophy
« Reply #181 on: October 09, 2005, 03:58:44 PM »
Quote
trhe only possible example I could come up with would be Deut 13:2.
Now it's your turn to explain. That appears to me to be an admonition for the children of Israel to kill false prophets who

a)Are actually genuine prophets

b)Attempt to introduce the worship of other gods.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"