Smelly Hippies, Commies, and Anarchists Stinking Up Denver

[Kaylee]

Communism pretty much = anarchism. Anarchy is really a direct method to reach communism, there isn't much of a transitional period as with the other ideologies. There is nothing to reconcile. Communism is a classless stateless society.

So you're saying anarchy - a lack of government - would result in a "classless society?"
Evidently you're not living in the same world as the rest of us, where the results of a power vacuum are pretty clearly observable on a daily basis.
(Hint, it begins with "strong overpower the weak," given enough time leads to "rival warlords," and once there tends to end with "famine," "genocide" and "casual brutality." )

That said, I'll grant the disparity between rich and poor is reduced...

...of course, that's because the people who make lots of stuff tend to either get killed for their stuff or are so preoccupied with daily survival there's not much time left for them to do the whole "artisan" (or "bourgeoisie capitalist pig" if you prefer) thing.


*grammar, spelling, interwebz-speak quibbles not worth bothering with*

Have you not heard or scene what happens to the protesters now?

The same thing that would happen to them if they carried signs saying "George Bush is Jesus" and "I love General Petraeas" or even "Bomb Baghdad for the WTO" while doing the exact same things. Don't want to get forcibly removed from the street? Don't sit in the frickin' street while other people are trying to get to work and do something productive with their time. Don't want to get a face full of CS spray? Don't throw things at the policeman. Also wise not to advance on him in a mob while screaming. People get touchy when they see a screaming mob walking towards them. Can't say I blame 'em.

In short... be Gallant, not Goofus.
Pretty simple really.

You talk as if people don't do these things either.

Yup. Yup I do. Wanna know why? Because every time I hear about one of these "protests," it happened when I was at work.





... and that's enough for one post. 'night all. Thanks for the welcome.

[xavier fremboe]

Communism pretty much = anarchism. Anarchy is really a direct method to reach communism, there isn't much of a transitional period as with the other ideologies. There is nothing to reconcile. Communism is a classless stateless society.

I'm not sure where you were during the twentieth century, but most of the large-scale experiments didn't really end up with communism=anarchism.

If the equation doesn't go both ways, it ain't equal.

[The Annoyed Man]

Communism, in theory, requires no government (or at least, little government).

Communism, in practice, has led to some of the most totalitarian governments in history.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

don't harsh the revolution/party with reallity

[Ben]

The thing is that there are a few other things that have to be understood before this can even begin to be touched.

Please. What has to be understood? It is a basic violation of personal property rights. The violators should be thrown in jail, or better yet, shot.

Do you think this country's revolution revolved around "patriots" burning down their innocent neighbors houses, shooting their livestock, and saying "Take that King George!"?

If you're using the "workers" versus everybody else ideology from your quoted website, when you smash somebody's car to bits, all you've done is destroy something a successful "worker" worked hard for and earned. Kudos.

[grampster]

Those protesters are only the camo for their peers who have actually infiltrated the Democrat Party.  The demonstrators job is to keep you occupied and distracted while the real threat works hard on the inside.

[Balog]

Stirringly eloquent defense there freak. I mean, it included an equal sign, so it's like a mathematical proof or something!

[Manedwolf]

Communism, in theory, requires no government (or at least, little government).

Communism, in practice, has led to some of the most totalitarian governments in history.

Communism the utopian dream is both intellectual masturbationism and also a recipe for the destruction of innovation. Why bother to advance, invent, even make an effort if there's no reward?

Communism the reality is even worse, and is Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.

[xavier fremboe]

I explained communism to my daughter at age 9 (she's 11 now) on our daily drive to school (about 20 minutes) after she heard me mutter something about Dennis Kucinich.  I explained it as being a utopian system where everyone is rewarded equally for the work that they do.  Everyone is equal and no one is penalized for underachieving.  I presented no downside to the theory, but when we pulled into school, I asked her one simple question:  "Knowing what I just told you, would you try your hardest?" 

Her response:  "No."

[Manedwolf]

If you really want a nightmare of communism, socialism and the liberal dream, read Stanislaw Lem's Return from the Stars.

Guy returns from a relatavistic space mission. Not only does nobody care about it or the research they did, but humanity has managed to end hardship, end the need for money, and delete violent urges with a permanent pharmaceutical treatment given at birth. People can quite literally not picture themselves killing, even in their own mind.

The dawning horror, given as the author lets you sit up all night with the protagonist reading the last century of missed academic research, is that it has entirely removed mankind's spark and drive, completely gone. He checks dates and sees the dwindling of hard science research over time, the fading of invention, and in other areas, the demise of competitive sports. It is absolutely believable, even to documentation of how children of the first of "new" generations couldn't relate to their parents who they saw as hopelessly violent and needlessly impassioned about things, as far removed from them as neanderthals. And it takes place several generations later.

Humanity killed need and jealousy, and in doing so, killed all passion, dooming itself to a lukewarm eternity of doing the same meaningless things. Looks pretty on the surface, urban utopias and pristine countrysides, but none of it means anything.

It'll give you nightmares.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The thing is that there are a few other things that have to be understood before this can even begin to be touched.

Please. What has to be understood? It is a basic violation of personal property rights. The violators should be thrown in jail, or better yet, shot.

Do you think this country's revolution revolved around "patriots" burning down their innocent neighbors houses, shooting their livestock, and saying "Take that King George!"?

If you're using the "workers" versus everybody else ideology from your quoted website, when you smash somebody's car to bits, all you've done is destroy something a successful "worker" worked hard for and earned. Kudos.

thats sop  if we were only as enlightened as he is it would be obvious to us

[Balog]

Oh, and Kaylee.... seriously, post more often. You are on the short list of "Things I miss the most about THR."

[roo_ster]

Time to drag out the anarchy successory, again:



What a bunch of flippin' losers.  Too bad they weren't given some .45ACP therapy.

[freakazoid]

Stirringly eloquent defense there freak. I mean, it included an equal sign, so it's like a mathematical proof or something!

What does this have to do with anything? What are you trying to say?

And with that I will return sometime later to respond to all the other actual responses to my responses... yeah. As right now I have to go and turn the horses out and clean the stalls. Of course if I was to follow some of your guys logic I shouldn't actually be doing that because apparently everybody is so gready and a pos that they have to have some sort of incentive to do any kind of work, 

[The Annoyed Man]

Communism, in theory, requires no government (or at least, little government).

Communism, in practice, has led to some of the most totalitarian governments in history.

Communism the utopian dream is both intellectual masturbationism and also a recipe for the destruction of innovation. Why bother to advance, invent, even make an effort if there's no reward?

Communism the reality is even worse, and is Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.

I'll agree with that. Understand that my concern is not a defense of communism, nor an endorsement of anarchy. Whereas some here simply might write this protest in Denver off as a bunch of loons dead set on making a mess of things, and move on, I am actually a bit curious as to how they think communism might work in the U.S. I'm sure that they'd have no answers for that. Of course, historical examples would clearly show that it doesn't work at all. Maybe these people should be giving more thought to what they are protesting/advocating.

Yet, at the same time, I haven't lost my focus on what helps breed this kind of behavior we are seeing at the DNC;

Weeds do not typically thrive in well-tended gardens.

EDIT: And, if this is only the Democratic national convention, I'm afraid we haven't seen anything yet.

[Balog]

Freak: I was referring to your response to my question. "Anarchy=communism." This isn't a response or a defense, it's just a random statement. So I'll ask again, why do you personally believe that anarchy and communism are A. synonymous and B. Good Things. I'd also like to know how you explain the fact that anarchy and communism, when actually tried in the real world and not a utopian wet dream, fail miserably.

Note I'm asking for your thoughts, not a link to some website.

PS voluntary communes etc are not relevant, as everyone is A. taking part of their own free will and B. united by a common ideology. And even those have a pretty poor track record.

[MicroBalrog]

I'd also like to know how you explain the fact that anarchy and communism, when actually tried in the real world and not a utopian wet dream, fail miserably.

The ancient Icelanders are growling at you from their graves, Balog.

So is Nozick.

[freakazoid]

So you're saying anarchy - a lack of government - would result in a "classless society?"

A lack of government =/= anarchy. A classless socieety is one prerequisite to an anarchist society.

Evidently you're not living in the same world as the rest of us, where the results of a power vacuum are pretty clearly observable on a daily basis.
(Hint, it begins with "strong overpower the weak," given enough time leads to "rival warlords," and once there tends to end with "famine," "genocide" and "casual brutality." )

It takes anarchists for an anarchist society to work.

I'm not sure where you were during the twentieth century, but most of the large-scale experiments didn't really end up with communism=anarchism.

Places like the USSR were not communist/socialist. If you really would like to know how they went wrong then I highly suggest you read or ask over at revleft.com Some of them are far far smarter on that subject than I am.

don't harsh the revolution/party with reallity

Wow, what a valuable peace of information, thanks for contributing to this debate,

Please. What has to be understood? It is a basic violation of personal property rights.

And this is part of what I am talking about in our differences. The view of private and personal rights.

Do you think this country's revolution revolved around "patriots" burning down their innocent neighbors houses, shooting their livestock, and saying "Take that King George!"?

Not the same.

Those protesters are only the camo for their peers who have actually infiltrated the Democrat Party.  The demonstrators job is to keep you occupied and distracted while the real threat works hard on the inside.

Is this serious?

Communism the reality is even worse, and is Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.

Like I had said above, those were not communist/socialist.

Communism the utopian dream is both intellectual masturbationism and also a recipe for the destruction of innovation. Why bother to advance, invent, even make an effort if there's no reward?

I had mentioned why this is stupid in my post before this one. Also why do people voluntier for anything if there is no reward? Do voluntier firemen get paid?

Her response:  "No."

So you asked a 9 year old if she would work harder if there was no reward and you would expect a different answer?

I am actually a bit curious as to how they think communism might work in the U.S. I'm sure that they'd have no answers for that.

I am sure that they do have answers. Seriously, you guys who are actually interested in learning should consider checking out revleft.com

Of course, historical examples would clearly show that it doesn't work at all.

Ah, but historical examples do show that it can work.

Freak: I was referring to your response to my question. "Anarchy=communism." This isn't a response or a defense, it's just a random statement. So I'll ask again, why do you personally believe that anarchy and communism are A. synonymous and B. Good Things.

But I did say how they are synonymus. Did you ask the second part? I don't see how they wouldn't be viewd as good things. Since when do libertarians view more freedom as bad?

I'd also like to know how you explain the fact that anarchy and communism, when actually tried in the real world and not a utopian wet dream, fail miserably.

They haven't. Again, places like the USSR were not socialist/communist.  Have you heard of the Paris Commune?

Note I'm asking for your thoughts, not a link to some website.

LINKY, http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html :p Actually a very good sorce of info if you take the time to read through it. Why would you want my thoughts on it? My words suck. I'm never good at explaining what I mean. I failed my last semester of high school English. But I can try.

PS voluntary communes etc are not relevant, as everyone is A. taking part of their own free will and B. united by a common ideology. And even those have a pretty poor track record.

Why aren't they relevant? They are it working.

[Manedwolf]

Warning for anyone wanting to look at the "revleft" whatever site:

Request denied by the Firewall
Reason: one or more categories denied details='Intolerance & Hate'

The firewall only does that for sites like stormfront. So there you go.

I'm going to guess they're one of the groups that are one of the reasons why I own a battle rifle. In case they need stopping someday when they "act out" and want to violate a bunch of property rights and hurt a bunch of innocent people.

[freakazoid]

LOL, the site is blocked for you? Doesn't suprise me, when I was in high school all airsoft sites were blocked. And I have read about how the site for the 2600 magazine is blocked at places.

edit - Oh noes, I used lol at the beggining of my sentence. 

[Scout26]

Can we get back to posting pictures of smeely hippies, et al.  and their asnine signs and of them getting the snort beat out of them by the cops ??

[Manedwolf]

It might be more interesting at the Republican convention, because Minneapolis is so full of horrifyingly stupid leftists who might want to make an example of themselves.

[roo_ster]

Haven't been able to find any images of good beatings.

Hence, the devolution into anarchist/communist navel-gazing and justifications for destroying other people's property.

[roo_ster]

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[El Tejon]

Minneapolis is so full of horrifyingly stupid leftists who might want to make an example of themselves.

Long time since you were in Denver, Mane?