To those who question if she (palin) pro gun or not...

[stevelyn]

Hell, the government out there gives people a check outright.

Let me explain to some of you DSMFs who don't get it.

The Alaska Permanent Fund was set up by Gov Jay Hammond as a way to give back some of the oil wealth to the people who actually own it rather than having govt piss it away. It's a constitutionally protected fund that has a board of directors.
Every year when the state receives revenue from oil production, a portion of it is deposited into the fund. The priniciple of the fund itself is invested. What we get back from it in the form of the PFD is what's earned from the interest earned and anything left is reinvested back into the fund for inflation proofing. None of the principle is ever or will ever be paid out as PFDs. As it is right now, withthe interest the PF earns is enough to run the state govt adn pay out a PFD to the citizens. In other words we're shareholders in our own state. Capitalism at its best.

Secondly, they just don't give it away. You have to qualify for it by applying every year and meeting the residency requirements.

Yeah..........there's some fraudulent applications where people are trying to get over on the system. A friend whose daughter works as a fraud investigator tells me the vast majority of cases are DSMFs coming up here in the military or for temporary jobs and trying to keep themselves in the system after they leave without being or intending to remain a resident.

[Josh Aston]

I like Sarah, I think she's done a good job here and will do a good job as VP.

But how do you think she'll do as President?

[Matthew Carberry]

I like Sarah, I think she's done a good job here and will do a good job as VP.

But how do you think she'll do as President?

I have seen nothing to indicate to me she wouldn't do a good job at that as well.

It isn't rocket science, it's leadership and organization, which she has solid experience in.  She has tended to pick good subordinates and has accomplished her various administration's goals, I'm not sure how else you'd judge.

The whole "foreign affairs experience" issue is, in my opinion, yet more sound and fury over very little. 
I'm reasonably intelligent and reasonably well-read.  Name a foregn policy issue and if I don't have a well-thought out position off the cuff, after a bit of review I will.  Certainly one as sound as any current candidate for any party.

Anyone who can read a book and talk to subject matter experts can get a solid working knowledge of anything in a short period of time.

The key for me is to start out with a realistic worldview and philosophy so you are looking at good background information and consulting the right people.  In that, I am confident in Palin and McCain and less so in Obama and Biden.

[agricola]

back to the guns:



 

[El Tejon]

Secondly, they just don't give it away. You have to qualify for it by applying every year and meeting the residency requirements.

  (emphasis added).

So, to "earn" this check you have to stay breathing for a year?   Is this not giving it away?

How does this not lead to corruption of the entitlement mentality?  Palin comes from this culture.  It is like expecting a libertarian champion to come from cultures like New Orleans or Chicago.

[mtnbkr]

Secondly, they just don't give it away. You have to qualify for it by applying every year and meeting the residency requirements.

  (emphasis added).

So, to "earn" this check you have to stay breathing for a year?   Is this not giving it away?

How does this not lead to corruption of the entitlement mentality?  Palin comes from this culture.  It is like expecting a libertarian champion to come from cultures like New Orleans or Chicago.

I don't understand the problem.  The residents are being paid the interest earned by revenues associated with the use of their natural resources.  Instead of the Alaskan govt saying "this is ours" and spending it on more govt, they're sharing the wealth that actually belongs to all Alaskans.

Chris

[Manedwolf]

Secondly, they just don't give it away. You have to qualify for it by applying every year and meeting the residency requirements.

  (emphasis added).

So, to "earn" this check you have to stay breathing for a year?   Is this not giving it away?

How does this not lead to corruption of the entitlement mentality?  Palin comes from this culture.  It is like expecting a libertarian champion to come from cultures like New Orleans or Chicago.

I don't understand the problem.  The residents are being paid the interest earned by revenues associated with the use of their natural resources.  Instead of the Alaskan govt saying "this is ours" and spending it on more govt, they're sharing the wealth that actually belongs to all Alaskans.

Chris

Yes. If it wasn't given to the residents for selling the stuff beneath their feet, it'd be wasted on actual entitlement programs.

I know which I would prefer!

[Matthew Carberry]

Secondly, they just don't give it away. You have to qualify for it by applying every year and meeting the residency requirements.

  (emphasis added).

So, to "earn" this check you have to stay breathing for a year?   Is this not giving it away?

How does this not lead to corruption of the entitlement mentality?  Palin comes from this culture.  It is like expecting a libertarian champion to come from cultures like New Orleans or Chicago.

And to "earn" stock dividends you merely buy one share of stock.  To "earn" the interest on money in an investment account you merely leave it in that interest-bearing account.

You remain a citizen of the state (which bears unique difficulties and coststhat living in, say, CA doesn't) and you receive your share of the invested value of the natural resources you own by being a citizen.  It is a contractual relationship based on the Constitution of the state, not an entitlement.

It isn't "free money", if you leave the state for long enough in a year, you lose the dividend because you aren't up here contributing.

It doesn't go to felons while their rights are restricted because they are no longer contributing members of society.  If you are a deadbeat dad or owe other moneys it can be seized.  It is taxable income.

[Matthew Carberry]

back to the guns:



 

This is what the red x covers... 

[El Tejon]

It is a contractual relationship based on the Constitution of the state, not an entitlement.

Entitlement:  right to benefits, income or property which may not be abridged without due process

How is the Alaskan check not an entitlement?  How do Alaskans not have a Constitutional right to something for nothing?

I is confused (obviously).

[Manedwolf]

It is a contractual relationship based on the Constitution of the state, not an entitlement.

Entitlement:  right to benefits, income or property which may not be abridged without due process

How is the Alaskan check not an entitlement?  How do Alaskans not have a Constitutional right to something for nothing?

I is confused (obviously).

Because they are stakeholders in their state, as if it were a company. They live there. They voted to give the state permission to use the resources of the place they live if they get to share in the profits from doing so.

It's how things SHOULD be.

[Matthew Carberry]

I guess I'm not seeing where the confusion comes in.  If you own a share of something, you earn a dividend.

You're "entitled" to it only in the sense that the holder of the investment is obligated by contract to pay it to you.

Alaska's Constitution states explicitly that all of the resources of the State of Alaska are owned by its citizens, not by the state government.  Citizenship in the state has been determined by the state Supreme Court to be equivalent to being a legal resident, which requires 1 calendar year of residency, having a driver's license, etc.

If you meet that standard of becoming a citizen, which by definition means you have made a real investment in the future of the state by living and working here, then you have earned your share of the resources of the state. 

With the influx of money from lease sales and oil production, the people of the state determined that one way of achieving that Constitutional imperative, in addition to removing state income and sales taxes, was to invest the money to run state government and pay dividends from part of the investment earnings.

So, you apply and you get the benefit you've earned by being a citizen of a state with ownership enshrined in its Constitution.  That share is paid out in two ways.  You don't pay taxes to the state AND you get a Dividend.

Additionally, the Dividend program requires that the residency not be just on paper.  If you are out of the state for greater than, I believe six months, in any application year you lose the right to the dividend as you are no longer a "real" contributing member of the community up here (there are medical and military/public service exemptions to a point).

As Maned says, how is getting a dividend on your investment earnings of resources you own an "entitlement".  You "buy the stock" by choosing to commit your life to living in Alaska, you "sell" the stock when you do any number of things to remve yourself from legal residency or the terms of the contract.

[El Tejon]

A dividend I pay for by getting off the couch, getting a job and buying the stock.  A free check from Mommy Alaska I get by sitting on the couch and breathing through my mouth is a handout.

I earn the dividend.  I receive an entitlement with the Alaskan check.

Writing an entitlement into the state constitution does not magically convert an entitlement into something else.  It is still a handout and indicative of the culture where she was raised.

I may be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not going to get all giddy about a politician from out here, or anywhere.

[Tallpine]

The Alaska "entitlement" started about the time that Sarah graduated from high school - so blame her for it 

You're just jealous, ET

[El Tejon]

Now, now, I am not blaming her.

Just pointing out that we should not be getting schoolgirl crushes on someone who comes from there.  Although time may prove me wrong.

[Tallpine]

Now, now, I am not blaming her.

Just pointing out that we should not be getting schoolgirl crushes on someone who comes from there.  Although time may prove me wrong.

Hey, I can get crushes on any girl I want - at least until my wife finds out 

[Scout26]

A dividend I pay for by getting off the couch, getting a job and buying the stock. 

Right and in this case the Permenant Fund is not the .gov, it's a seperate company.  It seems to me operate more like a credit union then a hand out.  They sell the company's product (the natural resources of the state as owned by all the shareholders) and use the proceeds to cover the state .gov's budget and distribute the remainder to the shareholders.  Sounds like a great system as the shareholders have a vested interest in holding down the portion of the $$$'s that the .gov takes for operations.  A much better operation then PEMEX or other nationalized companies that are only beholden to the .gov and not the poeple.  

The investment that you have to make to get the dividend check is to be a resident of Alaska for >1 year and not a convicted felon or otherwise DQ'd.   From my understanding of the Cost of Living up there, $1200-$3500 is not nearly enough to live on, even if you're homeless.

Almost like privatizing Social Security, but without the taking of your money out of your pocket.

[Matthew Carberry]

A dividend I pay for by getting off the couch, getting a job and buying the stock.  A free check from Mommy Alaska I get by sitting on the couch and breathing through my mouth is a handout.

I earn the dividend.  I receive an entitlement with the Alaskan check.

Writing an entitlement into the state constitution does not magically convert an entitlement into something else.  It is still a handout and indicative of the culture where she was raised.

I may be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not going to get all giddy about a politician from out here, or anywhere.

She has a lot more qualifications than just "being from Alaska".  

After all, she didn't have anything to do with the creation of the Dividend program and I'm not sure how the money could be better spent than making state government support itself and the rest being distributed per the tenets of the Constitution.  Constitutional originalism (state of Federal) is part of my libertarian take in any event.

I would challenge your narrow definition of how one earns a share of a corporation (the State in this case)
which pays a dividend.  

You don't have to just buy them with cash from other labor.  You can earn stock options simply for being part of the "company", where your membership within the organization earns you certain rights.  

Living in AK is more expensive than in the Lower 48 and the Dividend doesn't nearly compensate for that.  People do a hell of a lot more up here everyday than just "roll off the couch".  As a state is only as viable an organization as its citizens, stock options seem a just reward for contributing to the state year after year.

[El Tejon]

You can earn stock options simply for being part of the "company", where your membership within the organization earns you certain rights.

That would be correct.  I blame my self-employment and having to write checks (for everything and all flippin' day) for neglecting that.

[Matthew Carberry]

You can earn stock options simply for being part of the "company", where your membership within the organization earns you certain rights.

That would be correct.  I blame my self-employment and having to write checks (for everything and all flippin' day) for neglecting that.

Self-employment?  How dare you not kowtow to an employer.  Must remember to vote for higher self-employment taxes.

 

[seeker_two]

Wait and see.  She is a nutjob Westerner and I do not trust her.  Always remember that she is from a culture of corruption, sloth and the Welfare State.  Hell, the government out there gives people a check outright.

The "check" is profits from the oil industry that are paid to Alaska and distributed to the people. I wish Texas did that... 

BTW, I consider El T a Yankee and Yankees should be watched closely by persons in authority.... 


 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Where does the State of Alaska get the money that goes into the fund that pays the dividends?  It's oil money, they say.  But what is it, exactly, that the oil companies buying from the State of Alaska?  And why does the State own any of it in the first place?

[seeker_two]

Where does the State of Alaska get the money that goes into the fund that pays the dividends?  It's oil money, they say.  But what is it, exactly, that the oil companies buying from the State of Alaska?  And why does the State own any of it in the first place?

Good purchases with state money and good negotiators.... 

[Matthew Carberry]

At statehood, Federal Territories are given control of some land within their borders to allow them assets to start off with.  That has happened in all states that were territories since the beginning of the US.

Alaska thus owned land that had resource potential.  They leased prospecting rights (not ownership of the land) to private companies.  Those lease payments are income that went into the State's coffers.

Note that the Federal government does the same thing on land it retains at statehood.

When minerals and such were found, they also taxed some of the profit from the extraction and sale of those minerals.  That yearly production income also goes to the State.

The State Constitution explicitly says anything owned by the state, including its fungible resources, belongs to the citizens of the state, not the government.  In order to abide by that Constitutional stricture, and to provide for long-term income for the state (someday the oil will run out and the leases will end) wise men decided to invest the windfall in a "Permanent Fund" managed by an independent board.

The reason we had a huge chunk to start with was after the massive oil deposits were discovered in the '70s the Trans-Alaska pipeline was built to bring it to market.  We had all sorts of private investment in all sectors of the economy.  Naturally, we started building infrastructure and public works.  Seeing all that moolah flow in and out is what got Gov. Hammond and others thinking about the future, and thus the Permanent Fund.

The earnings of that Fund are reinvested into it, some to inflation proof, some earnings are earmarked for potential use on a "rainy day", but so far have also just been put back in so it just keeps growing.

Right now we make enough from yearly excise taxes to pay for state government (and not have to have a sales or income tax) and haven't had to tap the Fund or its earnings.

To sell the people of Alaska on the wisdom of the plan, a portion of the earnings were set aside to be paid out as dividends, thus demonstrating the "ownership" by the citizenry.

The Dividend program is the cream, it is the Permanent Fund that was genius.  As was said, think about how Texas or any other producer state would look with a reliable income stream for state government, removing the ability and need for politicos to play games with taxes and such.

[Stand_watie]

...How does this not lead to corruption of the entitlement mentality?  Palin comes from this culture.  It is like expecting a libertarian champion to come from cultures like New Orleans or Chicago.

It's like expecting a hoosier to remember to knock the cowshit off of his milking boots before he tracks it through your kitchen.