Author Topic: Open Mic Night at NBC  (Read 16187 times)

xavier fremboe

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Open Mic Night at NBC
« on: September 03, 2008, 02:46:58 PM »
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/09/03/republican-insiders-caught-by-hot-mic-race-is-over/

1.  Murphy and Noonan's careers?  Especially after Noonan's article today in the WSJ?
2.  Chuck set them up?  Sure seems like it to me.  After Jesse's off-mike comments, I think this will be a common tactic from here on in.

Also heard reports that CBS is citing the National Frigging Enquirer as a source that Sarah had an etra-marital affair with Todd's ex-business partner.

I looked for another thread on this, but couldn't find one.  I didn't want to post this as troll-bait, so it's on this side of the wall.  Curious as to thoughts.
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Ezekiel

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 03:02:39 PM »
Oh, SNAP!

The Enquirer has busted folks out, before.  Normally, I would 100% dismiss, but they are good at this...

Palin was a joke to begin with, IMHO, but when folks inside their own strategy see same, you're screwed.

It is, and has been, very obvious that McCain cronies went to bed saying, "if only we could locate a right-wing, radical, FEMALE, nutjob -- dressed as an outsider -- to pacify both the Right and the Clinton-istas..."

They found her and knee-jerked.

Bad news, yo.
Zeke

xavier fremboe

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 04:50:49 PM »
Oh, SNAP!

The Enquirer has busted folks out, before.  Normally, I would 100% dismiss, but they are good at this...

Palin was a joke to begin with, IMHO, but when folks inside their own strategy see same, you're screwed.

It is, and has been, very obvious that McCain cronies went to bed saying, "if only we could locate a right-wing, radical, FEMALE, nutjob -- dressed as an outsider -- to pacify both the Right and the Clinton-istas..."

They found her and knee-jerked.

Bad news, yo.
I really, really, really hope you're wrong.  Less the 'radical' and 'nutjob' appelations, you are correct that she is directly out of central casting, but then again, so is BHO.  I also don't really think she's going go pull away any serious Hillbots...
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Ezekiel

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 04:59:50 PM »
Unless the Hillbots were directly and specifically voting female.

I do think Palin is a right-wing radical, designed to attract Romney voters, too.  Problem?  He went NUTS and over-the-top in his speech: likely not what McCain desired.

So, she looks left of a target that moved (Romney) and is not holding up under soccer-mom scrutiny.

End result?  A token and massive miss by the McCain camp.  Unless they locate compromising photos of Obama in friendly embrace with a donkey, this will be hard to overcome.
Zeke

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 07:09:00 PM »
Unless I am mistaken, name calling is forbidden in general, and politics belongs in the political forum, not here Amongst Friends.  This is where I come to avoid that kind of stuff.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 08:27:31 PM »
Palin = voter turnout. 

If McCain could have chosen a better VP, name him. 
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De Selby

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 09:12:37 PM »
Palin = voter turnout. 

If McCain could have chosen a better VP, name him. 

Kay Baily Hutchinson....her, mentioned in the article. 

"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 09:19:46 PM »
"Him," the way I used it, is gender-neutral.  I guess "them" is preferred these days, but I'm old-school.

Why is Kay Bailey Hutchinson better? 

And just to clarify, I'm not talking about performance in office.  I'm talking about getting votes. 
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De Selby

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 09:28:40 PM »
You are right to use "him"-them wouldn't be grammatical 'nuff.  I was just emphasizing that it's another woman.

And I'm focused on votes too-at this point, I could care less about the "experience" the politicians claim to have, which mostly proves nothing about managing the money we send to them, which is the job they're elected to do.

Hutchinson would be better in terms of votes because:

-She is a more professional, polished figure, so she looks and acts more in line with the all-business, professional management theme that McCain is trying to create.  He's all about the contrast to Obama's stardom-Hutchinson fits that image.

-She is still energetic and youthful enough to keep the ticket lively, and to attract those who might be turned off by McCain's age.

-She clearly knows how to deliver votes in one of the largest states in the Union, and it is also a southern state.  No Republican will ever be elected to national office without a strong understanding of the political networks between Las Cruces and Tallahassee.

-Her experience is relevant insofar as it forecloses mocking McCain's "no experience" attacks on Obama.  In the coming weeks, I think the damage done by Palin's perceived lack of experience (not that I think it matters, but certainly the contradiction does) will become more apparent.  You can't blast Obama out of one side of your mouth for being experienced, then out the other praise your running mate for being a "washington outsider and soccer mom, plain ol' country gal."

-The campaign wouldn't be tempted to give speeches railing against "Washington insiders", which would be smart, considering that McCain is about as much a Washington insider as can be. 
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 09:44:02 PM »
Quote
-She is a more professional, polished figure, so she looks and acts more in line with the all-business, professional management theme that McCain is trying to create.  He's all about the contrast to Obama's stardom-Hutchinson fits that image.
In other words, she comes off as another boring politician.  This would not create the excitement that WILL bring voters to the polls to vote for Palin.  At risk of taking myself too seriously, mark my words.  I'm not saying McCain will win, but if he does it will be because of Palin.  Forgive me, I'm not familiar with Hutchison's record.  Unless she's as solidly conservative as Palin seems to be, she'd be lacking a major ingredient of Palin's appeal.


To quote myself from another thread:

Palin's "lack of experience" is a POSITIVE for the McCain campaign.  By foolishly attacking this perceived flaw, Obama and his media allies have drawn attention to Obama's even more glaring lack of experience or accomplishment, and for a higher office, no less.  This has reduced Obama to claiming he has "executive experience" by virtue of running an election campaign.

Quote
You can't blast Obama out of one side of your mouth for being experienced, then out the other praise your running mate for being a "washington outsider and soccer mom, plain ol' country gal."
You can when your veep has already accomplished change, while Obama merely talks about it.  You can, when your veep has experience and accomplishments that make Obama look like the mere demagogue that he is.  You can, when you keep in mind that Americans (at least in recent history) have preferred gubernatorial to senatorial experience.  Think GW Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Nixon. 
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De Selby

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 10:03:53 PM »
Quote
In other words, she comes off as another boring politician.  This would not create the excitement that WILL bring voters to the polls to vote for Palin.  At risk of taking myself too seriously, mark my words. 

The problem is that we're talking VP slot, not the top position.  Your whole pizzazz in generating voters cannot be about the VP, or else after the introduction wears off, voters will still notice that they're electing someone boring.

It's best to embrace what you are-I think GW's success owed in large part to creating the impression that he was just plain comfortable with who he was, and that he didn't need to pretend in order to get up on stage and run.

Selecting a personality who is so far in contrast with the Presidential candidate only makes the lack of vigourous energy more apparent.

Quote
By foolishly attacking this perceived flaw, Obama and his media allies have drawn attention to Obama's even more glaring lack of experience or accomplishment, and for a higher office, no less.  This has reduced Obama to claiming he has "executive experience" by virtue of running an election campaign.

You call it reduced, but apparently the polls are indicating that most people consider it to be either irrelevant or a plus.  He is consistently up in the latest polls...we'll see in the next week how that fares with Palin's introduction and the convention.

I'm predicting, though, that the attacks will benefit Obama-he's managed to deprive McCain of the "no experience" hammer, because McCain picked someone without precisely the kind of experience McCain has spent the last few months emphasizing. 

I think you'll see the opposite of Obama being reduced to making silly claims: McCain will be reduced to, in effect, equating his Senate service and military command to being a local politician, in order to explain why he chose Palin to run on the "experience" ticket.  Those are the things that qualify him to be president, according to his campaign, and he's going to have a tough time explaining why he doesn't want a number 2 with those same types of credentials.

You are right in identifying a preference for Gubernatorial experience, but the problem is that Palin isn't running for President, so that dynamic isn't going to work.  Instead, McCain still has to sell himself...and if he's out there claiming that you need a governor from outside Washington, how is he going to turn around and say "but vote for a veteran Senator from Washington now!"? 

In short, everything that is good about Palin undercuts, literally, every argument that McCain has been making in support of his own candidacy.  He's now going to be stuck trying to explain why those credentials are suddenly not so important...or he'll have to hope that people elect his VP, and not him, which is folly, imho.





"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

ilbob

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 05:02:36 AM »
You are missing the point. Palin does all kinds of things for McCain. People want to find a reason to vote for a ticket.

She is young, McCain is older.  People that think McCain is too old, will appreciate her.

She has a fair amount of government executive experience. Neither Obama or Biden have any experience except as leeches.

She is a true reformer, and against her own party. Republicans are looking for someone willing to take on those in their own party who need to be dealt with. Democrats don't care if crooks run things. they accept it. Most republicans don't. It is a basic difference between the republican base and the Democratic base that is not appreciated much.

There is a good chance Biden will be made to look either foolish (because he says what he wants) or boring and fake (if he sticks to the script) in the VP debates.

I think she could get 10% of the Hillary voters, and that could turn into a 45 state win for McCain.
bob

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xavier fremboe

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 05:06:21 AM »
Hutchison is certainly qualified, but she wasn't interested in the VP.  She has her eyes set on the Texas Governor's Mansion.
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roo_ster

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 05:53:45 AM »
KBH would not have nearly the impact of Palin.

She is two-faced on many core conservative issues and folks in Texas are starting to clue in to her.  The only reason she has toed the line is because of massive constituent pressure.  If she thinks she can get away with it, she would don the RINO horn in a moment.

She also is an establishment policritter, whereas Palin is not.  Palin has shaken the political trees whereas KBH is in the tree.

The choice of KBH would have been truly a safe, "token" pick, differing from most other potential Republican veeps only by her plumbing.

Choosing Palin was a risky move by McCain and was a means to reinforce his strengths, rather than to just dump a token gal on to the ticket.
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De Selby

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 07:11:37 AM »
KBH would not have nearly the impact of Palin.

She is two-faced on many core conservative issues and folks in Texas are starting to clue in to her.  The only reason she has toed the line is because of massive constituent pressure.  If she thinks she can get away with it, she would don the RINO horn in a moment.

She also is an establishment policritter, whereas Palin is not.  Palin has shaken the political trees whereas KBH is in the tree.

The choice of KBH would have been truly a safe, "token" pick, differing from most other potential Republican veeps only by her plumbing.

Choosing Palin was a risky move by McCain and was a means to reinforce his strengths, rather than to just dump a token gal on to the ticket.

The problem is that Palin doesn't reinforce McCain's strengths-she makes his weaknesses more obvious.

The similarity between Hutchinson and McCain, as you note above, is one of the reasons I think she would've been the smarter choice.
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MechAg94

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 07:43:09 AM »
Palin reinforces the maverick image of McCain which isn't exactly a weakness to many people.  I think I have seen enough quotes/interviews to show that there are some women out there who would vote for the woman regardless, just like those who would vote based on race. 

I agree with others above, KBH would not energize anything.  She is a decent party Senator and I can vote for her, but that's about it.  Sure she has some experience as Senator and in some state level positions.  To me at least, being a governor means more than most other jobs.
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longeyes

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2008, 08:19:41 AM »
I'm reading this thread with fascination.  We have two of our most vocal forumites telling us that Sarah Palin cripples the already crippled McCain campaign. 

I beg to differ.

If the old warrior needs new legs to take him and us up the hill, I think he's found them.  Millions more will agree.  Republicans have long been accused of being "stuck;" I think Palin is the fire-snorting truck that pulls this Party out of the ditch and back onto the road.  Like all kick-ass trucks she's not afraid of a little mud; she'll eat it up and plough on.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 08:36:21 AM »
I'm reading this thread with fascination.  We have two of our most vocal forumites telling us that Sarah Palin cripples the already crippled McCain campaign. 

Exactly.  More of the same (such as KBH) was not going to help McCain.

Quote
If the old warrior needs new legs to take him and us up the hill, I think he's found them. 

Oh, so she's nothing but a pair of legs to you.    laugh


he'll have to hope that people elect his VP, and not him, which is folly, imho. 

But they will.  The conservatives on this forum are not unique in our enthusiasm about this woman.  In every conservative venue I have seen, from my personal friends to various radio programs, etc., conservatives are very, very excited about voting for this woman, even if that means putting McCain in office. 

McCain's problem was not just that so many Republicans disagree with him about so much, it was that so few of us were ready to go to the polls for him, much less campaign for him.  That has changed.
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atomd

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2008, 08:37:02 AM »
The problem is that Palin doesn't reinforce McCain's strengths-she makes his weaknesses more obvious.

The similarity between Hutchinson and McCain, as you note above, is one of the reasons I think she would've been the smarter choice.

They are choosing them for the exact opposite reason.

It looks better with someone like Obama who is young, black, and has no real experience to have an experienced older white man on his ticket. Biden is unlike Obama in just enough superficial ways to make people feel a little more comfortable with Obama. I think it's supposed to make it appear to balance things out a little more.

McCain is going for the same thing obviously. I think he made the right call on this one. We'll see.

Ezekiel

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2008, 08:39:43 AM »
I think he loses the independent middle by pandering to the right, backfires on the soccer-mom vote, and does NOT help himself.
Zeke

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2008, 08:42:57 AM »
I think the choice of Palin is brilliant.  Palin's main advantage for the candidacy is to knock the legs out from under BHO's Change mantra.  

With this choice McCain now has the upper hand in the Change department.  Instead of a long-time Washington insider, like BHO's choice, Palin is a relative non-politician who is a female, mother, and wife.  Being literate, one heck of a debater, and very attractive doesn't hurt, either.  They need to endlessly hammer BHO's campaign on that one point.  If they would go ahead and map out her duties as VP, focusing on her involvement in family- and female-oriented issues, I think they could score a political "coop dee tat".

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2008, 09:36:14 AM »
KBH would not have nearly the impact of Palin.

She is two-faced on many core conservative issues and folks in Texas are starting to clue in to her.  The only reason she has toed the line is because of massive constituent pressure.  If she thinks she can get away with it, she would don the RINO horn in a moment.

She also is an establishment policritter, whereas Palin is not.  Palin has shaken the political trees whereas KBH is in the tree.

The choice of KBH would have been truly a safe, "token" pick, differing from most other potential Republican veeps only by her plumbing.

Choosing Palin was a risky move by McCain and was a means to reinforce his strengths, rather than to just dump a token gal on to the ticket.

The problem is that Palin doesn't reinforce McCain's strengths-she makes his weaknesses more obvious.

The similarity between Hutchinson and McCain, as you note above, is one of the reasons I think she would've been the smarter choice.

Wrong on both counts.

1. McCain's strength* is his his willingness to tell the establishment to eff off, come what may.  He found himself a gal who has done that, showing that he has the 'nads to take a risk and think about America's and the Rep Party's future.

I suspect you and I would disagree about his weaknesses. 

2. KBH would have been the safe, boring, establishment-approved choice.  And a complete turn-about from McCain's image & strengths.  She would not have energized the Republican base and she would have had a much harder time connecting with middle-class independents.  The McCain camp would have had to expend much energy & $$$ to convince anyone to get excited (to little effect).  With Palin, he just had to get her out on stage & talking.

* Both a feature and a bug, IMO. 
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roo_ster

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Scout26

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2008, 09:50:20 AM »
I think he loses the independent middle by pandering to the right, backfires on the soccer-mom vote, and does NOT help himself.

As someone who's married to a soccer (well, softball, swimming, football, baseball, and lacrosse) mommy, Mrs. Scout has gone from a tepid BHO voter to a enthusiastic McCain/Palin supporter.  She's even called the local Republican committeman to find out about getting a McCain/Palin yard sign.

At cirriculum night at my daughter's high school last night, ALL the moms were talking about Palin and were actively moving things along to get it over with, for their stated purpose to "Go home and watch Sarah's speech."

I repeatedly heard her referred to as Sarah, like she was their neighbor and friend.  They readily identified with her; working mom raising kids, trying to balance family, work and life in general.  Obama's in big trouble with working/middle class women. 
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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 10:58:04 AM »
. . . The problem is that Palin doesn't reinforce McCain's strengths-she makes his weaknesses more obvious . . .
Have you noticed that most of the comparisons involve comparisons of Palin and Obama?

When one party's nominee for President is being compared with the other party's nominee for vice President - and being found wanting in things from the first line in their respective resumes (small town mayor vs. "community organizer") to executive experience (couple of years as Governor with a record of reform, vs, well, nothing) it's not good for the first guy.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Open Mic Night at NBC
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2008, 10:59:23 AM »
Quote
1. McCain's strength* is his his willingness to tell the establishment to eff off, come what may

McCain *is* the establishment.
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