Open Mic Night at NBC

[Scout26]

. . . The problem is that Palin doesn't reinforce McCain's strengths-she makes his weaknesses more obvious . . .

Have you noticed that most of the comparisons involve comparisons of Palin and Obama?

Yep, they don't want to compare Obama to McCain on experience, etc.  Hence the democrats pick of Biden as a token vice president to shore up the lack of experience on their ticket. 

[Sergeant Bob]

As noted quite often, by a popular Conservative radio host, you don't win elections by converting people who would not be voting for you anyway. You win elections by getting your base to go to the polls.

I was going stay home this election and adding KBH to the ticket sure as h*** wouldn't have changed my mind. Now, I will definitely be hitting the polls on super Tuesday. I know quite a few people (Conservatives) who feel the same way.

[Brad Johnson]

I was going stay home this election

         

WTF?!?!?!?

Not voting just because you don't like the candidates is a lame, lazy, wussified, loser copout of the highest order.

If you can't vote for who you like then vote for who you dislike least.  Not voting is for whiney do-nothings who want to bitch about the problem without contributing to the solution.

Brad

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I was going stay home this election

         

WTF?!?!?!?

Not voting just because you don't like the candidates is a lame, lazy, wussified, loser copout of the highest order.

If you can't vote for who you like then vote for who you dislike least.  Not voting is for whiney do-nothings who want to bitch about the problem without contributing to the solution.

Brad

If you know that one candidate is going to be far worse for your country, then I'd say it's your civic duty to vote for the other candidate.  If it's in your power to help your country, but you choose not to, then that is indeed pathetic.  Trying to justify your laziness afterwords is even more pathetic.

[Sergeant Bob]

I was going stay home this election

         

WTF?!?!?!?

Not voting just because you don't like the candidates is a lame, lazy, wussified, loser copout of the highest order.

If you can't vote for who you like then vote for who you dislike least.  Not voting is for whiney do-nothings who want to bitch about the problem without contributing to the solution.

Brad

Bite me.

[De Selby]

Here's the fundamental problem:

At the end of the day, McCain is going to be President on this ticket, not Palin.

So if being a Washington outsider, young, energetic, consistently libertarian, and otherwise everything that McCain is not are vital qualities...then why on earth are you going to vote McCain?

Picking someone who has all the strengths that you lack does not give people a reason to vote for you.  It gives them more of a reason to ask "So why aren't I electing someone like this to the Presidency?  Why am I electing this other guy instead?"

[De Selby]

. . . The problem is that Palin doesn't reinforce McCain's strengths-she makes his weaknesses more obvious . . .

Have you noticed that most of the comparisons involve comparisons of Palin and Obama?

When one party's nominee for President is being compared with the other party's nominee for vice President - and being found wanting in things from the first line in their respective resumes (small town mayor vs. "community organizer") to executive experience (couple of years as Governor with a record of reform, vs, well, nothing) it's not good for the first guy.

Again, that's not the issue you think it is, because the natural conclusion of the argument is to point out that Palin isn't running for President.

McCain still needs to make his own case-how does having someone for VP who is likeable do that? 

[Ezekiel]

McCain still needs to make his own case-how does having someone for VP who is likeable do that?

Who said she's likable?

She's an anchor that undercuts McCain's personal base.

[mtnbkr]

Who said she's likable?

She's an anchor that undercuts McCain's personal base.

Who says she isn't?  Seems she's getting a lot of folks excited, folks who may or may not have cared about politics before. 

Chris

[Ezekiel]

Who said she's likable?

She's an anchor that undercuts McCain's personal base.

Who says she isn't?  Seems she's getting a lot of folks excited, folks who may or may not have cared about politics before. 

Chris

She gave a right-wing speech and McCain appears to be pushing as more moderate: tonight.

On the trail may be different.

[De Selby]

Who said she's likable?

She's an anchor that undercuts McCain's personal base.

Who says she isn't?  Seems she's getting a lot of folks excited, folks who may or may not have cared about politics before. 

Chris

While that is true, they are uniformly folks who were going to vote against Obama anyway.

To win the election she has to deliver voters who might still vote for Obama, and that doesn't appear to be something she's capable of doing, regardless of what you or I believe about her qualifications or beliefs.

[Ezekiel]

To win the election she has to deliver voters who might still vote for Obama, and that doesn't appear to be something she's capable of doing, regardless of what you or I believe about her qualifications or beliefs.

Concur.  Hence, she's no help.

No help = hurt.

Anchor.  Token.  Failed strategy.

[De Selby]

To win the election she has to deliver voters who might still vote for Obama, and that doesn't appear to be something she's capable of doing, regardless of what you or I believe about her qualifications or beliefs.

Concur.  Hence, she's no help.

No help = hurt.

Anchor.  Token.  Failed strategy.

Agreed-this will go down more comparable to a "Kerry" move than a "Rove" move, viewed in terms of the last election.

[Balog]

Who said she's likable?

She's an anchor that undercuts McCain's personal base.

Who says she isn't?  Seems she's getting a lot of folks excited, folks who may or may not have cared about politics before. 

Chris

While that is true, they are uniformly folks who were going to vote against Obama anyway.

To win the election she has to deliver voters who might still vote for Obama, and that doesn't appear to be something she's capable of doing, regardless of what you or I believe about her qualifications or beliefs.

Nope. The fabled "swing vote" is much less important than making your own party get out and vote. Very few R's like MacDaddy, and if he'd chosen some RINO-*expletive deleted*bag like Romney the only selling point would've been "Well, he's not Obama."

Granted, I still loathe McCain and find the idea of voting for him nauseating, but Palin is the very best we can hope for from the massive cluster this election is. Here's a bumper sticker idea for Bogie (if he's still on here, haven't seen him lately): "Voting for McCain; praying for a heart attack."

[De Selby]

Who said she's likable?

She's an anchor that undercuts McCain's personal base.

Who says she isn't?  Seems she's getting a lot of folks excited, folks who may or may not have cared about politics before. 

Chris

While that is true, they are uniformly folks who were going to vote against Obama anyway.

To win the election she has to deliver voters who might still vote for Obama, and that doesn't appear to be something she's capable of doing, regardless of what you or I believe about her qualifications or beliefs.

Nope. The fabled "swing vote" is much less important than making your own party get out and vote. Very few R's like MacDaddy, and if he'd chosen some RINO-*expletive deleted*bag like Romney the only selling point would've been "Well, he's not Obama."

Granted, I still loathe McCain and find the idea of voting for him nauseating, but Palin is the very best we can hope for from the massive cluster this election is. Here's a bumper sticker idea for Bogie (if he's still on here, haven't seen him lately): "Voting for McCain; praying for a heart attack."

What is Palin going to do, honestly?  It's not like she's going to be secretly running the show for McCain, so I don't see the logic in voting for Palin if you oppose McCain.

But anyway, getting his own party out was going to have to happen anyway, and he has a much smaller party.  It's the independents that have been making the Republican elections, and at this point, in order to defeat the consistent polling edge of the democrats, he'll have to do more than just get his smaller base out. 

[Balog]

What is Palin going to do, honestly?  It's not like she's going to be secretly running the show for McCain, so I don't see the logic in voting for Palin if you oppose McCain.

Like I said, I'm mostly hoping he'll die quickly. And I think the VP can have a strong influence on the PotUS, especially when she is as outspoken as Palin is. A president is largely defined by the advisers he surrounds himself with.

But anyway, getting his own party out was going to have to happen anyway, and he has a much smaller party.  It's the independents that have been making the Republican elections, and at this point, in order to defeat the consistent polling edge of the democrats, he'll have to do more than just get his smaller base out.

1. The consistently biased pollsters get consistently liberal biased results? What a shock.... 2. I think the issue is the definition of independent here. A lot of people lean right pretty hard, but may have no official affiliation with the R's per se. Someone like Palin has a lot of appeal to those type of "independents" who I think are the majority. And again, if your own party hates you, how are you going to get anywhere?

[Scout26]

McCain/Palin 2008 is the springboard for Palin/Jindal 2012.

[De Selby]

McCain/Palin 2008 is the springboard for Palin/Jindal 2012.

That's great, but it isn't an election winning formula.  John Kerry learned the hard way that you can't win an election by any means other than selling yourself, no matter how unpopular the sitting president happens to be.

Nothing is going to win this election for  McCain except convincing people that McCain should be president.  Anything else is a gimmick, and will fail due to the obvious gimmicky quality of the move.

[MrRezister]

I gotta say the Palin pick was probably the smartest thing the McCain camp has done yet.  She's given the "real" conservatives a reason to sit up and take notice this cycle.  Given them a reason to vote FOR the Party ticket, as opposed to just voting AGAINST Obama.  That said, I'm still pretty depressed  that the absolute strongest arguments for electing McCain as President boil down to:

1) He might not appoint horrible, HORRIBLE judges to SCOTUS, and

2) He's pretty friggin' old and might die soon.

[MechAg94]

One reason that I guess has been mentioned is that Palin gives people a reason to vote for McCain if nothing else to support a future candidate for President.  They were afraid a vote for McCain would mean a vote for a future full of moderate/liberal Republicans.  With Palin, that changes that view.  There is a future to look forward to without having to put up with Obama for at least 4 years.

Sure, McCain is the candidate, but people and the conservative base vote for a lot of reasons.  It is not always because they are a cheerleader for the main candidate. 

I keep hearing dozens of people here and elsewhere, on the radio, and all over who say that the Palin choice has either gotten them fired up or has made them change the way they look at things or else they know of people like that.  I don't think that is just an anecdotal fluke to be dismissed.  I think some of y'all are misreading this.

Personally, I wouldn't stay home anyway.  I would at least vote for the Congressional and State elections. 

[Jamisjockey]

McCain/Palin 2008 is the springboard for Palin/Jindal 2012.

That's great, but it isn't an election winning formula.  John Kerry learned the hard way that you can't win an election by any means other than selling yourself, no matter how unpopular the sitting president happens to be.

Nothing is going to win this election for  McCain except convincing people that McCain should be president.  Anything else is a gimmick, and will fail due to the obvious gimmicky quality of the move.

You put too much faith in the average Joe or Jane Sixpack.  We live in a country that is obsessesd with the cult of personality.  There are a substansial number of people who will vote BHO because he is black, and there will be a substansial number that vote McCain/Palin because she is a woman.  The one-issue voters will vote for M/P because she is a real pro-lifer and gives credence to MCains recent switch to pro-life. 

[De Selby]

McCain/Palin 2008 is the springboard for Palin/Jindal 2012.

That's great, but it isn't an election winning formula.  John Kerry learned the hard way that you can't win an election by any means other than selling yourself, no matter how unpopular the sitting president happens to be.

Nothing is going to win this election for  McCain except convincing people that McCain should be president.  Anything else is a gimmick, and will fail due to the obvious gimmicky quality of the move.

You put too much faith in the average Joe or Jane Sixpack.  We live in a country that is obsessesd with the cult of personality.  There are a substansial number of people who will vote BHO because he is black, and there will be a substansial number that vote McCain/Palin because she is a woman.  The one-issue voters will vote for M/P because she is a real pro-lifer and gives credence to MCains recent switch to pro-life. 

Is this the same reason that the "real" Americans voted for Bill Clinton over Bob Dole pr GH Bush?  I think Joe or Jane sixpack have other concerns that aren't accounted for by either veteran status or "experience."

[Lennyjoe]

Everyone keeps talking about McCain being old and close to death but his mother seems to be doing rather well in the upper 90's.  If he got the life gene from her side then he'll be around for a while. 

[Monkeyleg]

I think Joe or Jane sixpack have other concerns that aren't accounted for by either veteran status or "experience."

On this we agree. In 2000, Gore had more White House experience than Bush. Bush Sr. had more White House experience than Clinton. Bush Sr. also had more experience than Dukakis, but Dukakis really fumbled. Carter had more experience than Reagan, and Ford had more experience than Carter in '76.

I hope McCain doesn't continue to rely on his POW story. It was a good introduction to him for those watching the convention who don't know every detail about him (who are these undecideds?).

McCain has to start addressing economic issues, as Obama already has a head start (by offering free money to everyone). McCain could use the advantage he has now in the drilling issue to explain how oil prices don't just affect gas prices, but affect just about every aspect of our economy, and how the people are paying more for just about everything, including food, because of the Democrats refusal to drill or use nuclear. Despite his recent conversion to being open to drilling and maybe even nuclear, Obama is still vulnerable on that.

The problem for McCain in addressing economic issues is that he can't promise handouts. Doing so would alienate his base. Besides, Republicans never win by promising free money because the Democrats are so much better at that game. McCain could gain some traction by attacking congress on the bailouts in the mortgage industry, but he'll have a tough time talking about the people who were hurt because they bought more home than they could afford.

Obama should have closed the sale with the American people by now, but he hasn't. McCain has an opportunity to sell his ticket, but the window of opportunity wont' be open for long.

It's also time for McCain surrogates to start swift-boating Obama on his extremism. The media won't report on Ayers and Dohrn, or infanticide, or Rezko, but they'll sure criticize the ads. And, in doing so, the skeletons Obama's been trying to hide will be exposed.

[Balog]

It's also time for McCain surrogates to start swift-boating Obama on his extremism. The media won't report on Ayers and Dohrn, or infanticide, or Rezko, but they'll sure criticize the ads. And, in doing so, the skeletons Obama's been trying to hide will be exposed.

Even I haven't heard of this. What're you referring to?