Main water shut off valve... doesn't.

[Nick1911]

So the main water shut off valve in my house doesn't actually shut off the water.  It's a gate valve, and cranked down all the way either way doesn't seem to affect the water pressure at all.

There's about 3" of 3/4 inch galvanized steel pipe sticking out of the foundation.  Then there is a galvanized steel gate valve that routs the water 90 degrees.  From there, it turns to a copper water pipe which feeds the house.  I think the copper to valve is a flare fitting, but I'm not really sure.

How much of a pain in the a$$ is this going to be?  What tools and strategies should I use?  I'm thinking 2 big pipe wrenches, working against each other to keep from damaging the steel supply pipe.  That said, I've never done this before.

[Stevie-Ray]

What exactly are you wanting to do? Replace the supply valve? If it's the main or first one (there's usually 2) your only option is to have the main supply shut off by a licensed plumber or the water dept. It's usually out in your front yard. When my copper replumbing job was done, the plumber had to use a pipe wrench to turn off the main at the floor. Didn't think he was going to be able to do it. He said the only other recourse was the main in the front yard. He got it with the pipe wrench, though. Now, of course the second gate valve has been replaced by a butterfly valve, and those are simple to open/close.

[280plus]

yea, you definitely want to shut the water off at the main before you go messin' with that valve. If it were to decide to break while under pressure you'll be calling more than just a plumber. Think fire trucks and pumps and cleanup crews. 

[Firethorn]

One of my joys was a leak BEFORE the first shut off valve.  Had to get the water guy out to shut off the main valve.  It's a small enough town he left the wrench so I could turn my water back on when I had it fixed...

[ilbob]

This is one of those things it is better to call a plumber for, because if you screw it up (and it is easy to do), you can have a huge and very expensive problem.

In my village the water department charges like $45 to come out and turn off the water at the street and turn it back on later, as long as it is in normal working hours. Outside of normal working hours they charge something like $300 per trip, so getting it turned off and back on during abnormal hours is like $600 rather than $45.

I had an issue once requiring it be shut off at the street. The water department allowed the plumber to turn the water off/on at the street, so I did not have to pay the $45.

make sure the plumber puts a ball valve in to replace the gate valve.

[richyoung]

Your water meter should have a master shut off valve.   Its perfectly legal to turn your own water on or off at this valve, so long as the bill is current.  You can even turn it on yourself after its been shut off for a delinquent bill, so long as the bill has been brought up to current.  Any home imporvement store can sell you a tool to turn this valve (big T-handle looking thingee) for about $12, or you can reach in with a big crescent wrench or channel locks and turn it, if there is enough room in your meter box.

[ilbob]

Your water meter should have a master shut off valve.   Its perfectly legal to turn your own water on or off at this valve, so long as the bill is current.  You can even turn it on yourself after its been shut off for a delinquent bill, so long as the bill has been brought up to current.  Any home imporvement store can sell you a tool to turn this valve (big T-handle looking thingee) for about $12, or you can reach in with a big crescent wrench or channel locks and turn it, if there is enough room in your meter box.

A lot of places do not have this kind of setup. many have the main shutoff at the street and the meter inside the house.

[Tallpine]

In the little town where we used to live, many of the "street valves" had been left on for so many decades that they could not be turned off. Consequently the city had to dig it up and replace it, and of course the owner has to pay for the backhoe work    BTDT

Now, all I do to turn off the water is flip the breaker off

[Firethorn]

A lot of places do not have this kind of setup. many have the main shutoff at the street and the meter inside the house.

This is my house.  Oh, and it's a small enough place that the water guy is just that - he's the only one.  Got the water turned off and back on for free.  I actually have 3 valves I can use to turn off my water, it's just that you can't do much when the leak is before the first valve leading to the meter.

[Perd Hapley]

Definitely check to see if you can shut off the outside main yourself.  You can buy the key at a hardware store, or borrow one. 

[Stevie-Ray]

A lot of places do not have this kind of setup. many have the main shutoff at the street and the meter inside the house.

Yep, that's us. Pipe comes up from the floor in the basement and meets one gate valve. This is the main-the one I assumed he was talking about not working none too well, and the worst one to go bad. After the main is the meter, and after the meter is the secondary. (Usually a gate valve until replumbed, then butterfly type) If your main is shot, (like I thought mine was) you need to turn off the water outside, and this requires the water dept. or at least a licensed plumber.

[RandyinArizona]

If this is a one time problem, freeze the waterline solid with dry ice. 
Install a new shutoff valve between the frozen place and the house.
Allow the frozen area to thaw, problem solved.

BTW, Have plenty of dry ice. AND all the parts to install the new valve IF the line breaks instead of unscrewing at the gate valve or the copper tubing flare.


2

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if when you freeze it you don't rupture the water line.

[Nick1911]

Follow up:

I called the water company on Friday and got the water shut off.  Saturday I broke out my two big pipe wrenches and pulled the old valve off.  It is a one inch, 90 degree valve.  Flare on one side, and standard pipe thread on the other (NPT?)

Took the valve to Home Depot and was promptly told that they do not carry any valves with flare fittings.  So, I decided to try a dedicated hardware store - Ace.  I've actually run into this situation before - turns out that "home improvement store" =/= "hardware store".

Ace didn't have anything flared larger then 3/4".  The sales guy I talked to recommended a plumbing supply store; "The plumbers friend".  The valve was expensive ($30), but they had the valve in stock.  The sales guy was ridiculously helpful.  Small specialty shops rocks.

The valve went in without a hitch.  because I'm nervous about the fitting leaking on the main valve, I hooked my air compressor into the cold line where the washer normally hooks up and pressurized the system to 50 psi.  Then, I went around with a bottle of soapy water and a brush and looked for leaks.  Figured if it works on tires, it'll work on pipes! 

Anyway - no leaks with air pressure.  We'll see if it holds up after I have the water turned on this Monday.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

hope all you have is 50 psi on the main.

[Nick1911]

hope all you have is 50 psi on the main.

Isn't 50psig about what residential water pressure normally runs?

Also - if I didn't see any seeping at 50psi, barring something totally letting go (which isn't likely), shouldn't I be good up to the ratings of the fittings?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

supposed to be/\. i've gotten 90psi actual though  depends where you are in the system  top or bottom of a hill and is the regulator adjusted right. some dimwit who shall remain anonymous to protect the guilty once turned a well pumpway up "for better showers"   the quest fittings are only rated to 75 or so. thankfully I  er imean he heard the water gushing from under toilet before too much damage happened.  also look into sharkbite  gatorbite fittings  for emergency work

[Stevie-Ray]

Isn't 50psig about what residential water pressure normally runs?

Actually, it's supposed to be 40.

[280plus]

Yea, you won't find any real man's plumbing supplies at HD,