Author Topic: Sick of the B.S.  (Read 12920 times)

Seymour Skinner

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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2005, 07:03:44 PM »
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Masterpiece Arms.com
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E-mail  Website  -"Justin"
Yea what's you're point "Justin?"  I'm glad you went there.  Maybe at some point in the future, the naked truth of what I put there will sink in.

Several of you have an interesting "groupthink" dynamic.

It's like being in a third grade classroom where one kid points at someone and tries to mock that person FOR SIMPLY BEING DIFFERENT.

Here's some more of that mentality from "fistful":

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Did anybody notice this from the first post?

www.infowars.com

I thought I recognized that from somewhere.
Anything to avoid the topic huh "fistful?"

And some more:
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This is too easy.  -silver bullet
Yep, you're right, groupthink and ganging up on someone IS easy.  My question is why do you feel the need to hide behind such behavior?  Come out and take a substantive stand if you're so tough.

See, I'm proud to be an individual and not engaging in groupthink.  I'm proud of the truth and enjoy putting it on display.  (I especially love how the above two posters posted my PUBLIC information as if they were exposing something about me.  lmao That kind of comedy is why I enjoy boards like this.)

Ron

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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2005, 07:13:20 PM »
Talk about having a chip on his shoulder.

MA.com,  I think you just managed to irritate Christians, Jews, Pagans , Atheists, Conservatives , Libertarians and Liberals by coming here in full attack mode.

Take some deep breaths, relax, post coherent griefs you have with the President and you will have lots of company.

Continue to rant like a loon and well, you will be treated like a loon.

Winston Smith

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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2005, 08:04:39 PM »
Man blackburn, you must have posted using your +4 enchanted keyboard.
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K Frame

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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2005, 08:41:53 PM »
"Several of you have an interesting "groupthink" dynamic."

Another wonderous statement.

I suppose that your link to infowars.com means that you're actually free of the groupthink mentality?


"Continue to rant like a loon and well, you will be treated like a loon."

Something tells me that's the only thing he can do.


"It's like being in a third grade classroom where one kid points at someone and tries to mock that person FOR SIMPLY BEING DIFFERENT."

Oh, and that's certainly not what you've tried to do now is it?




"Come out and take a substantive stand if you're so tough."

It's pretty clear that everyone here is still waiting for you to take one. You've come out slinging accusations and insinuations, with absolutely nothing even remotely resembling credible source information.

All you can apparently be is insulting and whiny from the get go, accusing others of what you yourself are practicing as a fine art.

So far your credibility level would have to rise markedly to reach 0.

You bring nothing new to the table, you have no measurable debating skills, you have nothing other than insinuation, gossip, and innuendo to "support" your claims, you're insulting while whining that others insult you, etc., ad nauseum.

None of this is original.
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Sindawe

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« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2005, 08:54:17 PM »
Such maturity and polite discourse I see out of some of you fine folk.  A "few" I come to expect that level from, jackanapes they be to the end. Thanks to Justin for teaching me a new word.

As for the possibility of a military conflict with Iran, I think MA.com is closer to the truth than some here wish to believe.  I've watched the current Administration make accusation after accusation about Iran's supposed "Nuclear Weapons Program", and each time the IAEA as show those accusations to be a bunch of B.S.

 Of course, this comes up: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10402.htm

Along with the 101st beying deployed: http://www.hendersonvillestarnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050909/NEWS01/509090428/1006/MTCN05

I hope its just rotation coverage for troops coming home, but I'm not placing any wagers on such a hope.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2005, 09:07:36 PM »
"Masterpiece Arms.com,"

Lay off Barbara.  She can take care of herself and all, but you need to have a little more respect.

This thread has nothing to do with politics or war.  The topic is your libertarianer-than-thou attitude, and your insistence on insulting your interlocutors.  You knew your first post would insult at least a third of us, so what are you trying to accomplish?  Are you here to enlighten us, to persuade us, to encourage us to think or to vote the way you do?  I suppose not, because you're doing an awfully poor job of it.  If you want to talk politics or current events then start with a serious post, instead of throwing bombs.  You complain that no one is discussing "the topic," yet you do not respond to garretwc.  Why?

I drew attention to something you posted, and made no comment on it, other than to say I recognized the URL.  Is this wrong or illogical in some way?  Why do you feel the need to comment on it?  If you want me to stick to "the topic," then don't link to websites that make highly controversial claims.  Nothing wrong with controversy - it just draws attention to itself and away from your main point is all.  

Speaking of your main point, do you favor the invasion of Iran?  Why or why not?  And is it not true that big cheeses like, say, a national president, don't just come out and say "We's gonna make war on you all." until they have exhausted other options and it's time for the gloves to come off?  

Your numbered points in post 23 fail to tell me why a Libertarian president would do things differently, with regard to a strait-forward foreign policy.  I do not favor dishonesty, but I expect it from earthly governments, no matter the party.  If a Libertarian does not lie as you claim all others have, I expect it would be because he does not know how the game is played; not because of principle.  

For your information, it is not necessary or appropriate to use quotation marks around proper nouns, such as my screen-name, without sufficient reason.  My name is an allusion to the spaghetti westerns by Sergio Leone and Clint Eastwood, but I'm sure you don't watch such government propaganda.

Have a nice day.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

K Frame

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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2005, 09:08:15 PM »
"Such maturity and polite discourse I see out of some of you fine folk."

Of course your new buddy simply rolled in here with a perfect mein, and has maintained that personable nature all along.

As for Iran's supposed nuclear program, I suppose that this article from Reuters news service is nothing more than a well-planted bit of disinformation from the Bush camp?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050926/wl_nm/nuclear_iran_statement_dc

"TEHRAN (Reuters) -     Iran will resume uranium enrichment and stop allowing U.N. snap checks of its atomic facilities if moves to report it to the Security Council are not reversed, a foreign ministry statement said on Monday.
 
The statement, read out on state television, said Iran "would cancel all its voluntary and temporary measures including implementation of the Additional Protocol."

The Additional Protocol to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty allows snap checks of atomic facilities."

Dang, the Bush administration must be doing something right if they're able to plant someone that deeply in Iran's government.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Seymour Skinner

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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2005, 10:43:17 PM »
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Lay off Barbara.  She can take care of herself and all, but you need to have a little more respect.
That sentence just won for self contradiction of the year.  Make up your mind fister.  If the foul mouthed "lady" can take care of herself,  then why are you riding up on your white horse to speak for her?  Just more of your diversions.

This board is full of so many perma-trolls, I may have to show up occationally just to play with them.  Re reading this thread, it looks like Barb, fist, Mike, and Justin are sooo incredibly bored with being permanent trolls on this board that when someone new shows up, they don't know HOW to do anything else but focus on the person instead of the topic.  I'm so used to other boards that are TOPIC driven, it's entertaining to wander into this place that is closer to being a xenophobic social club.  The aforementioned trolls need to get out more and visit other boards.  The funny thing is they probably can't go to other boards because they've been banned for the type of ultra low class behavior Barb put on display. :lol:

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Speaking of your main point, do you favor the invasion of Iran?
I didn't incude that because my "wish" is irrelevant when something has already been decided.  The Klinton/Bush doctrine of full blown wars against entire nations, and establishing the U.S. and NATO as a force for intervention as opposed to defense, is patently illegal and only creates MORE conflict (not to mention bankrupting the nation).

Sindawe

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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2005, 11:13:38 PM »
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Of course your new buddy simply rolled in here with a perfect mein, and has maintained that personable nature all along.
= "BUT HE STARTED IT!!!"  While this is not THR.Org, it IS Armed POLITE Socity.Com.  One would expect more than petty name calling and childish personal attacks in such a venue.  But perhaps I expect too much...

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Iran will resume uranium enrichment...
An action which Iran, as a signatory of the NPT, is allowed to engage in when pursued for peaceful power generation or research purposes.
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The Additional Protocol to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty allows snap checks of atomic facilities.
Can you provide citation for this, outside of Y! News?  The Additional Protocols that is?  The IAEA page (http://www.iaea.org/worldatom/Programmes/Safeguards/sg_protocol.shtml) does not list Iran as signing on to these additional protocols (National Sovereignty and all that....), and oddly enough, the link to the actual text appears to be broken.  Very strange...
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This board is full of so many perma-trolls, I may have to show up occationally just to play with them.
SIGH... sinking to the level of your detractors does not bolster your argument MA.Com
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Guest

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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2005, 12:49:26 AM »
First of all, about the time you find me forming opinions and statements based on what anyone thinks I should be doing, go ahead and shoot me.

Secondly, I probably shouldn't have called anyone an asshat..but yannow..sometimes it just fits.

I mean, come on..I'm as anti-Bush as anyone here. I don't believe he has any respect at all for our Constitution and he's spending us into bankruptcy. I don't see a whole of difference between him and Kerry, honestly. I say that and catch crap for it, and its all good as long as someone can give valid reasons why they mistakenly think I'm wrong. Smiley

But if someone comes here, first post, and starts insulting people based on things he's clueless about, I have no obligation to play nice with them. I won't argue that I should have ignored him, because obviously his goal is to stir things up, but hey, I'm human.

Silver Bullet

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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2005, 03:13:47 AM »
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You're sure an intelligent and classy lady.
Barbara is an intelligent and classy lady.

Doesn't mean she's a doormat.

Dannyboy

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« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2005, 03:15:32 AM »
Aslong as he waits until we're done in Iraq, I'm all for it.  Iran should have been the first one to go...about 20 years ago.  

Quote from: Sindawe
An action which Iran, as a signatory of the NPT, is allowed to engage in when pursued for peaceful power generation or research purposes.
And there's the rub.  Considering Iran's history, can we really trust them to pursue peaceful power generation or research?  Call me crazy, but I'm thinking no, we can't.  Personally, I think if they want nukes so bad, we should help them out.  We have a few left over from the Cold War, right?  Why not just send them a few, the hard way.
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

roo_ster

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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2005, 03:22:37 AM »
I keep telling my boy, "No one will take you seriously, unless you're wearing pants."  (He's 11 months old and still thinks its perfectly fine to run around wearing nothing but a t-shirt & diaper.)  He needs such reminders that no matter how good your idea/solution/whatever, if you act and look the fool nobody cares what you have to say.

I have been able to get the point through my nephew's head, in the space of 5 short years.  We'll see how long it takes my boy to catch on, as everybody learns at a different rate.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2005, 03:50:44 AM »
Good post, jfruser.

Sindawe, you're playing with us, right?  Have you read this thread from the beginning?


Mister Masterpiece,

Glad you took some time from your vituperation to write two sentences about politics.  Unfortunately, they were "patently" wrong, for the most part, and don't suggest any alternative foreign policy.  Anyhow, I'm glad to see you are sticking to "the topic," rather than yelling bad names at people you barely know.  If you even knew what the term meant, by the way, you wouldn't throw the word "troll" around.

It is interesting you speak of "riding up on [my] white horse," as my defense of Barbara was undertaken in the name of chivalry.  She can dish it out as well as you can, but I don't think a lady should have to.  I'm a sexist.  What can I say?
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Guest

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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2005, 04:09:08 AM »
Oh, great..now I have to yell at you. I'm sick, dammit. I can only be overly aggressive towards one person at a time these days and now you're making me choose.  Smiley

BillBlank

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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2005, 04:13:24 AM »
Wow, the first troll I've seen here in ages and I'm late to the party.  God bless you for coming, it makes me look better after my little whoopsies (remember the shooting in london? Silly me forgot that people lie to cover their backsides). I hate having to email people to apologise Smiley .

Right, first off, invasion plans for the bahamas probably exist too. The military plans for every scenario they can think of. They update these as the disposition of forces alters. They'd already had to pop over to that part of the world once or twice in recent history so it would be plain common sense to plan what to do if they had to do it again. They'd be incompetent if they didn't.  Bush, I hate to say this, wasn't lying when he said he had no plans to invade. He was talking about his intentions not the super secret folder marked "get one up on my daddy".

Sod it, losing the will to type and behave in a mature manner. You disappoint me, Bush has said and done many things that are easier to criticise and second guess yet you pick that statement as proof of his lack of truthfullness rolleyes. Mikey Moore's books would give you a head start, you'd still lose the argument but you'd at least have a veneer of reasoning to your argument.

My personal theory is that Bush is a Nascar fan and that Cheney has to keep invading these countries to keep the little fella occupied in the off season. Gives him something on the telly with loud explosions that Bush junior can watch leaving Cheney in peace to run things. Just think, if Arnie and Stallone were still making movies then the world could be so much more peaceful.

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You bring nothing new to the table, you have no measurable debating skills, you have nothing other than insinuation, gossip, and innuendo to "support" your claims, you're insulting while whining that others insult you, etc., ad nauseum.

None of this is original.
Edited to add: I always wondered, despite the fact that Iraq invaded Kuwait, why they picked them and not Iran as the major threat that needed to be dealt with first. Iran has the "form" when it comes to state sponsered terrorism after all. This makes the cynical part of my brain think that maybe they just picked the country in the gulf that they could get away with invading rather than the one that needed invading. It meant they could have a garrison in the gulf without being anywhere near Mecca and causing trouble for the Saudi Arabians. Nobody in the region really liked Saddam and he didn't have close ties to the russians and the chinese like Iran has. It's nicely next door to Iran, should the need arise. It's sitting on a lot of oil, which is nice. Along with afghanistan it helps secure an overland route for oil that neatly circumvents the gulf that Iran has lined with anti ship missiles, which is also nice. US companies get to build that overland pipe too, also nice.  Do you think Cheney plays risk? Smiley
Pass me my tinfoil hat. May I also state that if the above is close to the truth I don't mind. We need that stuff and like a crackhead we'll mug an old lady or two if we have to. If entire countries are laid waste to to keep my GSXR in go juice that really is fine with me. Bombings and hijackings? Well, we're nicking their family silver, they're going to get a bit upset aren't they? It happens.  It's not right, it's not fair but since when has that been in the "interests of national security"?



O/T: Barbara, Where did you first hear the term "asshat"? I'm curious because until a year ago I'd never heard it. On a par with F***wit for the way it rolls off the tongue.
Just so happens Satan's behind the bar pulling the late shift for a buddy...

BillBlank

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« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2005, 04:52:21 AM »
Sounds too much like a hobby rather than an insult.
Just so happens Satan's behind the bar pulling the late shift for a buddy...

TarpleyG

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« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2005, 05:42:14 AM »
Boy this got ugly...I am posting as a reminder what Oleg asked of us from day one...check the sig line...

Greg

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« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2005, 06:15:39 AM »
Why Iraq & not Iran or SA?

Of the reasons given for the invasion (yes, there was more than one...read the source documents), one of the reasons NOT shouted from the rooftops was the need to have an example from the Arab world be given a geo-political tittie-twister.  Call it what you will, "draining the swamp," "making an example of," "sending a message in a language they understand," or some like formulation.  

OBL had a goodly portion of the world and the "arab street" convinced the USA was a paper tiger.  Heck, we had let Lebanon, Lockerbie, USS Cole, the first WTC bombing, Mogadishu, and the African embassy bombings go unavenged.  A reasonably ignorant, pig-humping, wanna-be jihadi can be forgiven for thinking the USA had lost its will to defend itself and its culture.  That misconception had to be corrected.  Saying, "We will defend our culture and hunt down the perpetrators blah blah blah baa baa baa squeal oink bray," is less effective than the langage of violence perpetrated against our foes when taking them to "Reality School."

So why Iraq?  Several reasons:
1. Saddam made himself a big, fat target by doing his best to convince the world he had WMD (whatever the facts on the ground).  The old arab/muslim honor/shame system pretty much forced him into such blustering.
2. Saddam had violated the GW1 ceasefire agreement many times and had violated the numerous UN British Bobbie resolutions repeatedly. ("Stop!  Or we'll vote for another resolution telling you to stop!")
(Points 1 & 2 gave us all the international legal cover we needed to give Iraq a pasting.)
3. Iraq has a much smaller population than Iran, thus needing fewer troops to conquer & hold, all else being equal.
4. Iraq has significant ethnic divides: majorty *expletive deleted*it arab, large minority sunni kurd, and a smaller minority of sunni arabs.  This makes Iraq somewhat unstable, as these groups vie for supremacy...which is the point.  They are less likely to overlook their differences and unite to defeat us than the supermajority sunni arab population of Saudi Arabia.
5. Pasting Iraq may incite the majority in Iran who despise the mullacracy to rise up & overthrow the mullahs.  Pasting Iran would not have incited Iraq's oppressed millions to do much of anything, as Saddam had even more control over his population than do Iran's mullahs.
Regards,

roo_ster

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The Rabbi

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« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2005, 06:48:57 AM »
Quote from: jfruser
Why Iraq & not Iran or SA?

Of the reasons given for the invasion (yes, there was more than one...read the source documents), one of the reasons NOT shouted from the rooftops was the need to have an example from the Arab world be given a geo-political tittie-twister.  Call it what you will, "draining the swamp," "making an example of," "sending a message in a language they understand," or some like formulation.  

OBL had a goodly portion of the world and the "arab street" convinced the USA was a paper tiger.  Heck, we had let Lebanon, Lockerbie, USS Cole, the first WTC bombing, Mogadishu, and the African embassy bombings go unavenged.  A reasonably ignorant, pig-humping, wanna-be jihadi can be forgiven for thinking the USA had lost its will to defend itself and its culture.  That misconception had to be corrected.  Saying, "We will defend our culture and hunt down the perpetrators blah blah blah baa baa baa squeal oink bray," is less effective than the langage of violence perpetrated against our foes when taking them to "Reality School."

So why Iraq?  Several reasons:
1. Saddam made himself a big, fat target by doing his best to convince the world he had WMD (whatever the facts on the ground).  The old arab/muslim honor/shame system pretty much forced him into such blustering.
2. Saddam had violated the GW1 ceasefire agreement many times and had violated the numerous UN British Bobbie resolutions repeatedly. ("Stop!  Or we'll vote for another resolution telling you to stop!")
(Points 1 & 2 gave us all the international legal cover we needed to give Iraq a pasting.)
3. Iraq has a much smaller population than Iran, thus needing fewer troops to conquer & hold, all else being equal.
4. Iraq has significant ethnic divides: majorty *expletive deleted*it arab, large minority sunni kurd, and a smaller minority of sunni arabs.  This makes Iraq somewhat unstable, as these groups vie for supremacy...which is the point.  They are less likely to overlook their differences and unite to defeat us than the supermajority sunni arab population of Saudi Arabia.
5. Pasting Iraq may incite the majority in Iran who despise the mullacracy to rise up & overthrow the mullahs.  Pasting Iran would not have incited Iraq's oppressed millions to do much of anything, as Saddam had even more control over his population than do Iran's mullahs.
+1.  Only sorry to see this posted on such a negative, nasty thread.  So shines a good deed in a naughty world.
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« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2005, 07:30:18 AM »
Sindawe,

Obviously you missed the point that Iran issued the statement via their state television network. Al Jazeera has reported it, Washington Post has reported it.

Iran apparenly not a signatory to the additional protocols, but it's very interesting that they called it out specifically in their televised statement.
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Sindawe

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« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2005, 07:58:40 AM »
Mike,

No, I did not miss it.  Where else would you expect the government of Iran to make their statements? Here perhaps?  It looks to me like Iran as tried very hard to play by the rules of the NPT, and them some if indeed they have been following the additional protocols even though they are not signatory to them.  Then when they are reported to the UN despite repeated inspections by the IAEA that show no weapons program, it surprises me not at all that Iran is getting fed up with the whole situation.
Quote
And there's the rub.  Considering Iran's history, can we really trust them to pursue peaceful power generation or research?
They've not yet pulled out of the NPT, have they?  Until they do so, the U.S. is bound to respect articles of the NPT.  If the U.S. will not abide by treaties it signs, why should anyone else?
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

garrettwc

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« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2005, 08:06:34 AM »
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I'm so used to other boards that are TOPIC driven, it's entertaining to wander into this place that is closer to being a xenophobic social club.
Well if you had been around since the beginning you would know that this board was founded as a "social club" for THR members.

From dictionary.com
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xenophobic

adj : suffering from xenophobia; having abnormal fear or hatred of the strange or foreign
I've never seen any demonstration of xenophobia on this board. In fact quite the opposite most of us are curious, even about things we don't agree with.

We are TOPIC (your emphasis) driven. We have discussed any number of subjects here. I personally have even tried to stay on topic in this thread. I offered my rebuttal of your claims, free of personal attacks. You either missed it or ignored it because I never saw you respond to the topic, only continue your bickering with other members. If your concern is for the topic, stick to it and offer something to support your point of view.

K Frame

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« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2005, 08:12:00 AM »
Alright, Sindawe,

Since you're apparently cool with Iran pursuing nuclear capabilities despite a hard-core Islamic government that has made no secrete of its belief that Islamic law is the ONLY law for the entire world, how do you feel about the North Koreans having nuclear capabilities?

After all, they appear to be just as trustworthy, and just as beset upon, right?
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Sindawe

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« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2005, 08:35:00 AM »
Mike,

Please provide citations of independent agencies that verify the claims that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons.  Even the IAEA (the folks tasked with verifying the NPT)have repeatedly stated that Iran is not doing this.  All we have are grave pronouncements from the Bush administration.  Sorta like the WMD that Iraq as hiding, and the Kuwaiti babes torn from incubators by Iraqi troops in '90.

As for N. Korea, I'd rather they did not have the weapons, but the time to act would have been when they pulled out of the NPT and openly stated such in 2003.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.