What is our worst case scenario in this election?

[sumpnz]

But America survived Carter. Many of these other posters, nd people I hear at work, see Obama as truly the end of America.  I just can't see it getting that bad.  Of course, I am known as being an eternal optimist...

I'm with you on this one.  I think that if HopeChange wins in 4 years we'll see a ticket with (not necessarially in this order) Palin and Jindall.  Or someone very similar to either of them.  Don't know much about his politics overall but Thaddeus McCotter got my attention with this. 

We'll survive an Obama administration.  If he pushes too hard too fast (and how could he resist) the GOP will take back or both houses in the '10 mid-term elections and halt his abuses cold.  Kinda like what they did to Clinton in '94.  Hopefully though, unlike with Clinton, we'd be able defeat him in '12.

[buzz_knox]

>>DU/KosKid plant alert! cheesy

>>Your attempt at verbal obfuscation will not work, sorry. When you veer off into the "enemy combatants OMG torture" >>angle, it breaks the magic spell.

Which parts do you think are not fact? 

I am a very serious gun owner who happens to believe in the US Constitution.  I fear those who try to find ways around it more than just about anything else.

If that's true, then Obama's "Citizen National Security Force" concept should be terrifying to you.

[Manedwolf]

But America survived Carter. Many of these other posters, nd people I hear at work, see Obama as truly the end of America.  I just can't see it getting that bad.  Of course, I am known as being an eternal optimist...

I'm with you on this one.  I think that if HopeChange wins in 4 years we'll see a ticket with (not necessarially in this order) Palin and Jindall.  Or someone very similar to either of them.  Don't know much about his politics overall but Thaddeus McCotter got my attention with this. 

We'll survive an Obama administration.  If he pushes too hard too fast (and how could he resist) the GOP will take back or both houses in the '10 mid-term elections and halt his abuses cold.  Kinda like what they did to Clinton in '94.  Hopefully though, unlike with Clinton, we'd be able defeat him in '12.

Gun registration cannot be reversed. Once they have it, they have it.

I am not willing to take that risk.

[Perd Hapley]

  Don't know much about his politics overall but Thaddeus McCotter got my attention with this. 

Never heard of him.  But what a stud!   

[longeyes]

There is no illusion more dangerous than the assumption that the system is fine and we'll survive any number of people--not just Obama--subverting it. 

Just take education.  A society that permits its education system to undermine its basic values, social, economic, and moral, and thinks that all is well is whistling past the graveyard.

Or take energy.  Thirty-plus years of intentional self-crippling.  You don't turn that around in a few years, given the best scenario.

And, yes, if they get our guns, they are either gone for good and we live under tyranny, or we say the hell with law and order and find ourselves in a world of warlords.

[Silver Bullet]

f that's true, then Obama's "Citizen National Security Force" concept should be terrifying to you.

That sounds like a secret police.   

[Boomhauer]

f that's true, then Obama's "Citizen National Security Force" concept should be terrifying to you.

That sounds like a secret police.   

It is a secret police.

Take that, add a dash of "Truth Squad", plus a cup of Patriot Act abuse, and you have a recipe for a dictatorship.

Chicago on a national level.

[BReilley]

Which parts do you think are not fact? 

I am a very serious gun owner who happens to believe in the US Constitution.  I fear those who try to find ways around it more than just about anything else.

I'm with you.  The current administration has been all kinds of weasely.  I don't disapprove of all that it's done - I disapprove of the recklessness with which it has acted and they blatant disrespect it has shown for the Constitution.

If that's true, then Obama's "Citizen National Security Force" concept should be terrifying to you.

Video reference, start at 16:30 or so for the relevant part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw

Just who the hell is going to volunteer for all this crap?  Why would people do things for their government for free, when an Obama administration will reward indolence with "free" money(i.e. garnished from my paychecks)?  Sure, there will be a few hippies and college kids, but by and large people don't care enough - that's why we have power brokers in government, not genuinely concerned, involved citizens.  I wish I could say Obama is foolishly idealistic - but he's smarter than that.  His ideas are just insulting.

[Gowen]

What I don't want to take the chance on, is him naming 3 left wing Justices that make R.B. Ginsberg look like Rush Limbaugh.

[Bigjake]

I'll go the exact opposite of the OP.  

The BEST case scenario involves McCain being elected, and then vapor locking inside of his first month in office...

Past that, we're hosed  

[seeker_two]

  Don't know much about his politics overall but Thaddeus McCotter got my attention with this. 

Never heard of him.  But what a stud!   

Is it too late to bump McCain and nominate him as Palin's VP?....

[buzz_knox]

Just who the hell is going to volunteer for all this crap?  Why would people do things for their government for free, when an Obama administration will reward indolence with "free" money(i.e. garnished from my paychecks)?  Sure, there will be a few hippies and college kids, but by and large people don't care enough - that's why we have power brokers in government, not genuinely concerned, involved citizens.  I wish I could say Obama is foolishly idealistic - but he's smarter than that.  His ideas are just insulting.

People volunteer for "free" all the time, when there are other rewards to be had.  For some, it's service.  For others, it's power.  Once the mechanism is established, you can convert free to pay easy enough.  What was the initial pay scale for the Communist Party?  The Brownshirts?  Both started as volunteer organizations.

Do you think La Raza would recruit people to join this, if that meant La Raza had a say in "patrolling" the border?

The problem with all the "we'll survive" is that people are comparing Obama to Carter.  There is no comparison.

Carter studied Nimitz, Halsey, and trained under Rickover.  Obama studied Marx and Lenin.
Carter governed in an era where domestic and foreign intel was heavily curtailed.  Obama will come to power with the most intrusive tools at his immediate disposal (didn't the Dems promise to get rid of said tools instead of renewing them). 
Carter governed when memories of Nixon with his enemy's list were real.  Obama's immediate Dem predeccesor made the IRS a tool of personal vengeance, and the FBI a mechanism for punishing those engaged in thought crimes.
Carter was actually fairly humble.  Obama has been taught that he is the messiah and the sole hope for America.

Stop thinking Carter, and start thinking Chavez.  The US will "survive" Obama in much the same way Venezuela has "survived" Chavez:  the territory remains the same, but the nation itself is very different.

[The Annoyed Man]

That's true, to a degree, about volunteering.  I worked as a volunteer intern for the U.S. Attorney's office for a year.  In trade, I graduated law school with something worthwhile on my resume, which was a big help in me getting hired on at the prosecutor's office.

So, from what I see, the opinions here are the same as around the courthouse.  For some, Obama would be like Carter, apain in the a$$, but survivable.  Others are cleaning the rifles and sharpening the bayonets, because this is going to be the end of America as we know it.  I guess I'll just have to wait and see, and maybe buy some ammo, just in case.

[makattak]

That's true, to a degree, about volunteering.  I worked as a volunteer intern for the U.S. Attorney's office for a year.  In trade, I graduated law school with something worthwhile on my resume, which was a big help in me getting hired on at the prosecutor's office.

So, from what I see, the opinions here are the same as around the courthouse.  For some, Obama would be like Carter, apain in the a$$, but survivable.  Others are cleaning the rifles and sharpening the bayonets, because this is going to be the end of America as we know it.  I guess I'll just have to wait and see, and maybe buy some ammo, just in case.

That reminds me, I need to get a bayonet for my new (to me) Garand...

Now, I honestly don't know if this is the beginning of the end. To me it is not Barack Obama that will be the end of this nation. If he is elected, he will screw things up on a scale this nation has never seen.

The end may come because half of the country seems overjoyed to elect this empty suit and half sees that he is an empty suit.

Eventually, half of the country is going to say "ENOUGH" and just give up fighting the other half. They'll take their ball and go home.

[longeyes]

The problem with all the "we'll survive" is that people are comparing Obama to Carter.  There is no comparison.
Carter studied Nimitz, Halsey, and trained under Rickover.  Obama studied Marx and Lenin.
Carter governed in an era where domestic and foreign intel was heavily curtailed.  Obama will come to power with the most intrusive tools at his immediate disposal (didn't the Dems promise to get rid of said tools instead of renewing them). 
Carter governed when memories of Nixon with his enemy's list were real.  Obama's immediate Dem predeccesor made the IRS a tool of personal vengeance, and the FBI a mechanism for punishing those engaged in thought crimes.
Carter was actually fairly humble.  Obama has been taught that he is the messiah and the sole hope for America.
Stop thinking Carter, and start thinking Chavez.  The US will "survive" Obama in much the same way Venezuela has "survived" Chavez:  the territory remains the same, but the nation itself is very different.

Excellent points.

***

The trouble with thinking that we're just going to take our ball and go home is that "they" are not going to let us.  They need us to subsidize their socialist utopia.  We exist only to pay the freight.  If you want them off your back you will need to throw them off.

[makattak]

***

The trouble with thinking that we're just going to take our ball and go home is that "they" are not going to let us.  They need us to subsidize their socialist utopia.  We exist only to pay the freight.  If you want them off your back you will need to throw them off.

In this I think you may be wrong. "They" may not WANT to let us. The problem is (and I think "they" know it) that "we" have all the guns and most of the military on "our" side.

If Texas secedes, who is going to stop them? I seriously doubt any U.S. military unit will fire a shot at a Texan army.

Now, I can't be sure about Obama's legion of "volunteers" though...

[MicroBalrog]

Gun registration cannot be reversed. Once they have it, they have it.

Of course gun registration can be reversed!

Gun laws can be repealed. Any and all gun laws can be repealed.

[freakazoid]

If Texas secedes, who is going to stop them? I seriously doubt any U.S. military unit will fire a shot at a Texan army.

I have often read that if some states decided to secede that no one from the military would shoot at the people. I'm not entirely sure that this would be correct. For one look at what happened at the Kent State shooting. All it will take is for them to be told that they are the enemy.

[Perd Hapley]

And a new Ezekiel is born. 

[longeyes]

In this I think you may be wrong. "They" may not WANT to let us. The problem is (and I think "they" know it) that "we" have all the guns and most of the military on "our" side.

If Texas secedes, who is going to stop them? I seriously doubt any U.S. military unit will fire a shot at a Texan army.

Now, I can't be sure about Obama's legion of "volunteers" though...

I may be wrong, yes; it's been known to happen (rarely). 

But a sober look at history might persuade you that the U.S. military is unlikely to disobey a Presidential order--unless we are truly at the point of complete civil war.

As for our having the guns, they will divide and conquer, go after the loud and the angry, the "nuts" and figure the rest will have too much to lose by fighting.  Are they wrong?  We really don't know.

[freakazoid]

And a new Ezekiel is born.

 

Look what happened during the civil war. I'm not saying that those in the military are bad people. I'm just saying that they will be made to think that who they are fighting are bad people. Shoot, look at the Civil War, can't believe I didn't think of that HUGE example earlier.

[freakazoid]

As for our having the guns, they will divide and conquer, go after the loud and the angry, the "nuts"

Yup, devide the FUDDS and the RTKBA, where does the term FUDDS come from anyways? Make it seem like the Keep and Bear Arms folks are the crazies.

[silliman89]

where does the term FUDDS come from anyways?

There was a cartoon character named Elmer Fudd who used to hunt Buggs Bunny (another catoon character).  Many of us old timers have fond childhood memories of these cartoons. 

[buzz_knox]

I'm just saying that they will be made to think that who they are fighting are bad people.

Perhaps someone will pull an Operation Northwind and conduct terrorist activities within the US in the name of the "bad people." 

[freakazoid]

There was a cartoon character named Elmer Fudd who used to hunt Buggs Bunny (another catoon character).  Many of us old timers have fond childhood memories of these cartoons. 

But when calling someone a FUDD it is always in caps, which would mean that it stands for something? I used to watch The Bugs Bunny and Tweety Show when I was younger,