What is our worst case scenario in this election?

[Manedwolf]

Gun registration cannot be reversed. Once they have it, they have it.

Of course gun registration can be reversed!

Gun laws can be repealed. Any and all gun laws can be repealed.

And they're going to delete the database they have, once they have it? Hello?

[MicroBalrog]

Gun registration cannot be reversed. Once they have it, they have it.

Of course gun registration can be reversed!

Gun laws can be repealed. Any and all gun laws can be repealed.

And they're going to delete the database they have, once they have it? Hello?

Hasn't Ashcroft found out they were illegally keeping NICS records and ordered deletions when he was around?

Most importantly, what's the point of a database if its out of date?

[Manedwolf]

There was a cartoon character named Elmer Fudd who used to hunt Buggs Bunny (another catoon character).  Many of us old timers have fond childhood memories of these cartoons. 

But when calling someone a FUDD it is always in caps, which would mean that it stands for something? I used to watch The Bugs Bunny and Tweety Show when I was younger,

It's just a reference to the sort of person it entails. Elmer ran around with the stereotype hat and a double barrel shotgun. The FUDDs are the sorts of full-of-themselves hunters who will happily throw all other gun rights and gun owners under the bus as long as nobody bothers their old duck gun.

For the best example, see the article written by the bloviating Jim Zumbo, who called ARs "terrorist rifles".

[Manedwolf]

Gun registration cannot be reversed. Once they have it, they have it.

Of course gun registration can be reversed!

Gun laws can be repealed. Any and all gun laws can be repealed.

And they're going to delete the database they have, once they have it? Hello?

Hasn't Ashcroft found out they were illegally keeping NICS records and ordered deletions when he was around?

Most importantly, what's the point of a database if its out of date?

ASK EXPERIAN AND THE OTHER CREDIT REPORTING COMPANIES.

And you really, really think they'd ever actually delete the databases once they have a list of who has what guns? Really? You trust them to do that?

[MicroBalrog]

And you really, really think they'd ever actually delete the databases once they have a list of who has what guns? Really? You trust them to do that?

So you're arguing the NICS data isn't actually erased after 24 hours?

[Nick1911]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if NICS data is cached forever.  Would you?

[Manedwolf]

So you're arguing the NICS data isn't actually erased after 24 hours?

NICS has no information about the type of gun you purchased. Just long gun, hand gun.

The government has no information as to the model or action of those guns.

[MicroBalrog]

So you're arguing the NICS data isn't actually erased after 24 hours?

NICS has no information about the type of gun you purchased. Just pistol or long gun.

The government has no information as to the model or action of those guns.

NICS has the gun's serial number, does it not?

[freakazoid]

It's just a reference to the sort of person it entails. Elmer ran around with the stereotype hat and a double barrel shotgun. The FUDDs are the sorts of full-of-themselves hunters who will happily throw all other gun rights and gun owners under the bus as long as nobody bothers their old duck gun.

But why is it in all caps?

NICS has no information about the type of gun you purchased. Just long gun, hand gun.

The government has no information as to the model or action of those guns.

Really? Interesting.

[MicroBalrog]

The BATFE receives information on every gun at the point of manufacture - they know, for instance, that serial no. XY-4545-ZZ is a Joe Schmoe Arms revolver. That's in GCA-68.

[Manedwolf]

The BATFE receives information on every gun at the point of manufacture - they know, for instance, that serial no. XY-4545-ZZ is a Joe Schmoe Arms revolver. That's in GCA-68.

Really? Good luck finding what the serials mean on my stuff made out of the country before the bans.

[MicroBalrog]

Even if they get gun registration (which is doubtful), in a few years after its repealed, its going to be worthless - good luck finding who owns a random gun after it changes hands a few times.

[sumpnz]

NICS has the gun's serial number, does it not?

No.  But the 4473 does. 

[freakazoid]

Really? Good luck finding what the serials mean on my stuff made out of the country before the bans.

Even if they can't do it with the old guns I would think that they would be able to do it with any knew stuff.

Even if they get gun registration (which is doubtful), in a few years after its repealed, its going to be worthless

I don't think it is to doubtful. And I would imagine that if it was put in place it would be a long time before it ever gets repealed. How long has class 3 firearms been basically banned?

good luck finding who owns a random gun after it changes hands a few times

More like "changes hands/gets lost/stolen" wink wink,

[Manedwolf]

FTF sales are also quite legal here. In that case, the government hasn't any idea at all what you have, unless there is mandatory registration.

I've found guns at yard and estate sales a number of times.

[The Annoyed Man]

If Texas secedes, who is going to stop them? I seriously doubt any U.S. military unit will fire a shot at a Texan army.

I have often read that if some states decided to secede that no one from the military would shoot at the people. I'm not entirely sure that this would be correct. For one look at what happened at the Kent State shooting. All it will take is for them to be told that they are the enemy.

Now, I've read enough about Kent State to know that the National Guardsmen were not firing upon what they thought were the enemy.  It was not a situation of highly trained troops blindly following orders.  It was a group of soldiers in a no-win situation, vastly outnumbered and scared.  When they heard what they mistook to be small arms fire on their position, they returned fire.  Tragedy ensued.

And the civil war was a different time... a time when one was more readily identified with the state one was from first, not as an American.  These days, we tend to be American first.

[Manedwolf]

And the civil war was a different time... a time when one was more readily identified with the state one was from first, not as an American.  These days, we tend to be American first.

Dunno. We kinda hate on Massachusetts every time the news is "Another criminal from Lawrence was caught after robbing a Nashua convenience store/bank/pedestrian/home/business tonight..."

It's like their primary export now. Meth-heads who dive over quickie-mart counters and try to get in the register, or pull an (illegal, obtained in MA, too) gun on the clerk. They just "rehabilitate" them in a halfway house there, they walk out, come up here and try it again. Hell, we even just had a Lawrence COP come up here and rape someone.

Based on news comments where people are furious about "MA criminals becoming our problem because MA won't deal with them", I think a lot of New Hampshire residents would fire on Massachusetts if they were allowed to.

*Lawrence, MA's property crime rate is something like 2500 per 100k, violent crime 1000 per 100k (1 in 100!) people in a population of 70k now. It's a Socialist Wonderland under Deval Patrick, and unfortunately close to Nashua on the other side of the border. Preview of life under Obama.

[AZRedhawk44]

I would imagine that the day before some registration system was implemented, there would be MOUNTAINS of FTF trades and sales.

I'd trade every gun I have for a similar model from someone else.

"Those guns, Agent Schmuckatelli?  I don't own those anymore.  Sold 'em before the ban went into effect.  Any other guns?  Well, you don't see any 4473's on file for them, so I guess not.  Good day!"

[macadore]

Calm down guys. Youre starting to sound like the John Birchers in the fifties and sixties. Anyone who goes up against the U.S. military is delusional or suicidal. Obama wont be fun, but we will get over it. We have gotten over worse. Do a web search for long hot summer and 1968.

[MicroBalrog]

We have gotten over worse

Have we now?

So I take it the Great Society was dismantled?

[macadore]

Have we now?

Do a web search for long hot summer and 1968.

[MicroBalrog]

Have we now?

Do a web search for long hot summer and 1968.

Yes, and while America go through the rioting, it did end up passing a load of huge-government-programs and limitations on personal freedom which did not go away.

[longeyes]

As he said, we haven't "gotten over it."  LBJ, Nixon, and the '60s are still very much alive in the part of America that is rancid and rotting.

[Perd Hapley]

freakazoid,

I'm not saying the military wouldn't fire on its own citizens.  I don't know, either way.  What I object to is your pushing the idea that us stupid military types just do whatever we're told when someone comes along and tells us that so-and-so is our enemy, even if that means firing on our own people. 

And the civil war was a different time... a time when one was more readily identified with the state one was from first, not as an American.  These days, we tend to be American first.    

And American military organizations were much, much different then.  They were typically made up of men from the same state.  And when you want to compare today's conditions to the civil war, you always have to keep in mind that the civil war was fought between one solid block of contiguous states with one set of interests, and another solid block of contiguous states with opposing interests.  The lines aren't so clearly or conveniently drawn today. 

[freakazoid]

What I object to is your pushing the idea that us stupid military types just do whatever we're told when someone comes along and tells us that so-and-so is our enemy, even if that means firing on our own people. 

I have never said anything like that. I wouldn't doubt that there would be many people that would refuse.

And the civil war was a different time... a time when one was more readily identified with the state one was from first, not as an American.  These days, we tend to be American first.

I wonder if that sort of mentality, identifying more with the state you are in than with the country, still exists in the National Gaurd?