Author Topic: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN  (Read 9757 times)

Scout26

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McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« on: September 29, 2008, 07:52:43 AM »
When he first said he wasn't going to the debate, he put Obama in react mode.   Then McCain should have said "The Economic problems are too important, I'm going to stay in DC and wrok on them to get it solved, Country First.  Since Sarah is my VP choice, I'm gonna send her to Ole Miss to debate Obama."

That really would have boxed in Obama.  His options:

1)  Cancel the debate (bringing on the "Scared to debate Sarah" beatdown).

2)  Go ahead with the debate (Win or lose, Obama still loses.  Lose to Sarah = very BAD, Win = Congrats to beat the second string.)


I would have loved to have seen it, as every middle class mom (including Mrs. Scout), would have tuned in.....

Lost opportunity......

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longeyes

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 08:02:33 AM »
McCain played the "bi-partisan" card when he should have played the "maverick" card.

He should have opposed the bail-out--for the right reasons.  He needs to back the middle-class, back the risk-takers, the productive, the savers and investors.

I think he's confused and conflicted, just as Bush has been.  These men are, in their hearts, both liberals, and as liberals can't really deal with an ultra-leftist like Obama.
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Leatherneck

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 08:10:23 AM »
I wouldn't go so far as to call them liberals; I save that term for the odious left wing.

What I think is happening to McCain (and Pallin too, probably) is that they are now enmeshed in the tentacles of the RNC and being fed a steady diet of "what the party thinks." Continued support from said RNC being contingent on their toeing the line of course. I don't much like it.

TC
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wacki

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 06:31:21 PM »
I wouldn't go so far as to call them liberals; I save that term for the odious left wing.

What I think is happening to McCain (and Pallin too, probably) is that they are now enmeshed in the tentacles of the RNC and being fed a steady diet of "what the party thinks." Continued support from said RNC being contingent on their toeing the line of course. I don't much like it.

TC

McCain is cashed strapped while the RNC is rich.  You are probably right.

Gentleman Ranker

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 02:21:54 AM »
The scary thing is, if Obama can make the bailout thing stick to McCain, he (Obama) may have just won.

I don't think I've seen so many people so angry and upset about something since 9/11, and if the Dems can make people think Bailout = Republicans = McCain, then it's all over. It won't matter a bit how winsome Palin is.

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HankB

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 04:45:33 AM »
I think he's confused and conflicted, just as Bush has been.  These men are, in their hearts, both liberals, and as liberals can't really deal with an ultra-leftist like Obama.
And maybe McCain doesn't really want to win.
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Manedwolf

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 05:14:51 AM »
McCain was on an interview this morning.

He agreed with Obama that FDIC insurance ought to be increased to $250K from $100K. He agreed with Obama on a bunch of other crap.

He said that he wants to see the bill passed, and Americans just don't understand, blah, Main Street, (I am SO SICK of that jingoistic "it's main street, not wall street" talking point...I don't live on main street!)

I am very angry.

MrRezister

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 05:48:57 AM »
McCain could have wrapped up the whole election if he had gone in and helped author a new bill that was fundamentally different from Bush/Paulson.  One that didn't lay Wall Street's problems at the feet of the American Taxpayer.  If my reading of the reactions so far is accurate, the voters aren't worried at all about who wants more oversight, they simply don't want this tax burden, and who can blame them?  McCain should have come up with an alternate bill that either would have shielded the taxpayers entirely, or wouldn't require 7-10 years to see some sort of return.  That way he would have cemented his status as a problem solver, whilst standing up against Bush and living up to his Maverick "status".  As it stands now, it is obvious that the leadership in the house wants the bill to go through, but those who want to keep their seats in the upcoming election are afraid to have their names associated with it.  And the Democrats were waiting for the Republicans to get enough votes to pass the bill so they could spread the blame evenly.  I'm glad most Republicans voted against it.
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agricola

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 06:13:41 AM »
McCain could have wrapped up the whole election if he had gone in and helped author a new bill that was fundamentally different from Bush/Paulson.  One that didn't lay Wall Street's problems at the feet of the American Taxpayer.  If my reading of the reactions so far is accurate, the voters aren't worried at all about who wants more oversight, they simply don't want this tax burden, and who can blame them?  McCain should have come up with an alternate bill that either would have shielded the taxpayers entirely, or wouldn't require 7-10 years to see some sort of return.  That way he would have cemented his status as a problem solver, whilst standing up against Bush and living up to his Maverick "status".  As it stands now, it is obvious that the leadership in the house wants the bill to go through, but those who want to keep their seats in the upcoming election are afraid to have their names associated with it.  And the Democrats were waiting for the Republicans to get enough votes to pass the bill so they could spread the blame evenly.  I'm glad most Republicans voted against it.

The thing is the Dems know this, and will block anything that can even semi-plausibly be linked to McCain because they know its his single best chance of winning in November.  Just look at the conniption and blatant fibs they got into when he postponed his campaign.
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MechAg94

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 06:36:17 AM »
Yeah, but it he had put forth an alternative, he could talk about the difference between him and Obama, not how they agree.  Even if it didn't pass, it would still be a good talking point for him and would gain him some support. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

agricola

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2008, 06:53:42 AM »
Yeah, but it he had put forth an alternative, he could talk about the difference between him and Obama, not how they agree.  Even if it didn't pass, it would still be a good talking point for him and would gain him some support. 

True, but any plan based on those principles would be "the McCain plan" and heavily opposed.  A better way might be to have House Repubs draft a bill aimed at fixing the crisis, and then back it (if they can do that in your system).

Also, I am not an economics person but is it possible that the crisis might die out once all the banks who have the problems are known / have gone to the wall?  There seem to be quite a few banks over here and in your country who are doing very well, and who are getting great deals off the corpses of the dead banks.


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slingshot

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 07:02:08 AM »
Unfortunately, McCain may well have lost the election this week.  I am a news hound and he just didn't come across as being actively engaged in the bill that was put together.  The political bickering has been quite humorous and solidifies my belief that the Democrat leadership are all socialists.  After Pelosi's speech prior to the vote, I would have voted NO even if I favored the bill prior to the vote.  It was supposed to be a bipartsin "solution".  So much for that.  I don't care if there is any bill now.  I vote NO except for the Newt plan and then see where things are after it is implemented.  Then we can talk about $$.
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longeyes

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 07:51:51 AM »
McCain is obsessed with being a "uniter," and in that he is not much different from Obama, at least in rhetoric.  I think we know that Obama is on track to be the Great Divider, not the Great Uniter, but McCain's "bi-partisanship" has produced nothing but a series of legislative acts that have done more harm than good (or would have if passed).  For a guy who allegedly brings a warrior's spine and high principles, he comes across as a political compromiser and, yes, an appeaser.  Where is the "maverick" and what does it mean to BE a maverick?  I think these days being a maverick would mean standing up the disrespected and ignored will of the American people in so many issues.

If McCain were listening and willing to buck the status quo, he would have opposed the bail-out bill and he would never have proposed the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill.
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MechAg94

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2008, 10:50:30 AM »
True, but any plan based on those principles would be "the McCain plan" and heavily opposed.  A better way might be to have House Repubs draft a bill aimed at fixing the crisis, and then back it (if they can do that in your system).
He could do it either way.  I think if he had done that, he would have gained support.  I think voters are sick of politicians trying to do "something" instead of trying to do what is "right".  I think it would poll well with voters if someone would just say "to hell with uniting and bipartisanship, lets do what is right for the country first.  If others can't unite behind that, I don't want them on my side."

I imagine part of the problem with some in D.C. is they have no principles so the phrase "what is right" means little to them.
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seeker_two

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2008, 11:16:38 AM »
McCain's handling of the bailout as a way to sink his own ship...

http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080930/NEWS/809309991/1006/news

Quote
McCain urges Treasury to take further actions

DES MOINES With Congress stalled on a bailout plan, Republican nominee John McCain urged President Bush on Tuesday to direct the Treasury Department to use powers already on the books to increase insurance of bank deposits and buy troubled mortgages.

"The administration can take these actions with the stroke of the pen to help alleviate the crisis gripping our economy," McCain said. "I urge them to do so."

He also called for the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to increase the deposit insurance cap to $250,000, more than double the current level. The move would seek to assure nervous savers that their money is safe from a bank failure.

"We cannot allow a crisis in our financial system to become a crisis in confidence," McCain said.

McCain addressed the financial turmoil as he opened an economic roundtable discussion with business leaders at a north Des Moines concrete form business. He said he spoke with Bush earlier Tuesday and urged the president to take action.

He acknowledged the politics of an approaching election could complicate efforts to deal with the nation's economic problems.

"I know that many of the solutions to this problem may be unpopular, but the dire consequences of inaction will be far more damaging to the economic security of American families and the fault will be ours," McCain said.

He argued that the Treasury Department has already used a special fund to back money market accounts, and he urged that its use be broadened.

"I encourage it to use this fund as creatively as possible to provide backstops for accounts across our financial system to maintain confidence on the part of savers and investors," said McCain.

In addition, McCain said a housing bill approved in Congress gives Treasury the authority to purchase up to $1 trillion in mortgages, and the agency should do so.

"Housing and mortgages are at the root of this crisis," McCain said. "I encourage Treasury to take action to shore up mortgage values."

A day after Congress rejected a $700 billion bailout package Bush had supported, McCain said the size of the problem demands immediate action.

"We are in the greatest financial crisis of our lifetime," said McCain. "Congressional inaction has put every American and the entire economy at the gravest risk."

McCain also called for Democrats and Republicans to work together.

"I am disappointed at the lack of resolve and bipartisan good will among members of both parties to fix the problem," said McCain. "Bipartisanship is a tough thing, never more so when you're trying to take necessary but publicly unpopular actions. But inaction is not an option."

McCain warned that the credit market is beginning to dry up for businesses, those seeking to buy a home and students looking to finance an education.

"Businesses all over the country cannot borrow to finance their own operations and pay their bills and if we do nothing many may fail," said McCain. "When financing dries up, students can't get loans."

The bailout package has proven to be a thorn in McCain's side. He said he was suspending his campaign last week to return to Washington and hammer out a compromise, and when passage looked likely McCain took credit for his role in finding a solution.

Now that the agreement has fallen apart, McCain said he'd remain involved.

"I call on everyone in Washington to come together in a bipartisan way to address this crisis," McCain said. "I will continue to do whatever I can to aid in a constructive answer to the challenge before us."

Not only is he calling on Bush to do an end-run around Congressional opposition (most of which is his own party), he's slamming those in his party who oppose this bad bill....not a way to win over your voters....

...guess the Palin pick was just a fluke...  rolleyes
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agricola

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2008, 01:15:14 PM »
McCain's handling of the bailout as a way to sink his own ship...

I disagree - after the savaging he got for saying that the fundamentals of the US economy are sound (which they are), and with the President, the Media and parts of Congress talking this up as the Great Depression II, for him to say something else would take extraordinary political bravery, especially when it would almost certainly be spun (and "evidenced" by some random bank failure) as McCain-of-the-Seven-Houses being out of touch, stupid etc etc.  That said, the doommongering seems to not have penetrated the American political psyche at all, so perhaps it wouldnt be that brave...

In fact the more I think about it he should restate his position on the economy, and explain that - while some people will feel pain through foreclosures and negative equity - more (probably far more) people will benefit because houses will be far more affordable now, and point out that a lot of banks are actually doing rather well right now. 

Perhaps he should also resurrect his 9/11 inquiry-style commission into exactly how the whole mess happened, in order to focus criticism where it is deserved.
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longeyes

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2008, 02:13:40 PM »
It is not a question of the American economy being "okay" or "not okay."  For one thing, the stock market has been over-priced for some time; that is a valuation issue, not an issue of whether companies are making money or not.  But a lot of the over-valuation has to do to the funny money injected into the system and this reality IS a deeper structural problem that threatens the fundamental soundness of the American economy.  We are going to need to de-lever this economy, and that is going to mean cutting back on a lifestyle that is way too much based on debt (especially foreign debt) and consumption.  At bottom there are inescapable moral issues at play that everyone wants to run away from.  Adam Smith knew over two hundred years that you can't separate economics from morality; we seem to have forgotten that.

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longeyes

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2008, 03:47:40 PM »
What I ask is this:

Would Teddy Roosevelt have supported this bail-out and trumpeted "bi-partisanship?"
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2008, 04:52:28 PM »
Quote
It's been said that Americans are faced with a choice between the stupid party and the evil party . . . and that once in a while, the two parties get togetherand they do something that is both stupid and eviland this is called "bipartisanship."  Thomas Woods, Jr.

seeker_two

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2008, 01:38:26 AM »
At bottom there are inescapable moral issues at play that everyone wants to run away from.  Adam Smith knew over two hundred years that you can't separate economics from morality; we seem to have forgotten that.



Well said....
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grampster

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2008, 05:37:03 AM »
As Rush said yesterday, being bi-partisan is not hard work.  It's easy.  What is hard is having your own principals and vision and standing up for them vigorously and using the bully pulpit to expose the mis, mal and non-feasance.
He said he'd do that...loosely quoted--"I'll expose them and name names.  I'll make them famous."  Not so far John, and you've had multiple opportunities.

McCain has had so many opportunities to bury Obama that it borders on a Monte Python movie.  I am perversely reminded of the scene in The Holy Grail when the two knights are fighting and the one keeps getting limbs chopped off and fails to admit he is harmed in any way.

Even though I disagree with much of McCain's notions, at least I had thought him to be a man of principals for which he'd stand up.  Since the convention, other than choosing Palin, he has shown himself to lack the qualities that would make him a leader.

As much as I hate to say it, Obama has leadership qualities.  The problem is that he'll lead us in totally the wrong direction.
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longeyes

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2008, 06:36:51 AM »
McCain has long been part of the internationalist/WSJ/open borders wing of the GOP.  His idea of bi-partisanship has been to team up with arch-liberals to promote amnesty, restrict free political speech, and fetter our economy with green chains.  McCain is a very rich man whose life experience is gov't bureaucracy, lest we forget.

I want to believe in McCain, but he doesn't make it easy.  I predict he will make nothing of the VP moderator flap; he will just go along, "nicely."

I keep waiting for Teddy Roosevelt to come back.  I guess I'll be waiting a long time.
"Domari nolo."

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grampster

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2008, 11:15:14 AM »
You know we have hundred year floods.  Maybe we'll have a hundred year Roosevelt.  The timing is nearly spot on.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

MechAg94

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2008, 12:34:02 PM »
Personally, I don't think Obama is showing any leadership qualities at all.  He isn't DOING anything at all with regard to any of this mess.  He is just talking about what other people are doing or will do.  And he really isn't talking about it very well.  He sounds good, but even a 6 year old can realize he isn't saying anything of substance.  If elected, I think he will just be a party puppet for the hard left wing of the Democrat party.  IMO, Obama's history in politics demonstrates that same behavior. 

It is sad these days that people hear a guy that sounds good and mistake that for intelligence, wisdom, and leadership. 

Now, I agree with others that McCain has missed or is missing a golden opportunity.  I agree that bipartisanship is something that I think only the media likes these days. 
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Monkeyleg

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Re: McCain blows a chance for a big WIN-WIN
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2008, 01:17:07 PM »
As the media defines "bipartisanship," it's only bipartisan when conservatives (not necessarily Republicans) give in to liberals.