House votes down bailout package

[agricola]

ETA on McCain getting the blame for this?

[slingshot]

Voters overwhelmingly have indicated their displeasure with this bill.  My question is....  are voters not informed?  Don't we understand?  Did the Congress do a poor job of explaining what the bill actually does?  What happens if no bill is passed?  What is the merit of an insurance approach?  The Democrats say it won't work.

What happens now?

[Manedwolf]

Voters overwhelmingly have indicated their displeasure with this bill.  My question is....  are voters not informed?  Don't we understand?  Did the Congress do a poor job of explaining what the bill actually does?  What happens if no bill is passed?  What is the merit of an insurance approach?  The Democrats say it won't work.

What happens now?

What happens now is a long overdue correction. And instead of the toxic slop of mortgages being handed to fiscally responsible people, it gets dumped over the heads of the people who caused it.

Maybe they'll learn something.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

What happens now?

I think what happens now is they try again, maybe with a slightly different approach or a slightly different bill. 

The people at the top want this bailout, and I doubt they'll give up on trying to get it.

[Oldskoolfan]

Pelosi doesn't want to see it die. More than a few democrats said no to this one.

Then maybe she shouldn't have had her liberals stuff a 3 page bill with another 97 pages of porkbarrel entitlements, handouts to ACORN, La Raza and the Urban League, and all sorts of other garbage.

  What are you talking about?  Do you have an article, citation, or source for this?  Your posting is the first I have heard of this.

[Manedwolf]

Pelosi doesn't want to see it die. More than a few democrats said no to this one.

Then maybe she shouldn't have had her liberals stuff a 3 page bill with another 97 pages of porkbarrel entitlements, handouts to ACORN, La Raza and the Urban League, and all sorts of other garbage.

  What are you talking about?  Do you have an article, citation, or source for this?  Your posting is the first I have heard of this.

Michelle Malkin's blog broke it down quite nicely, and mention of that has been all over the news for days. It was stuffed with pork. Including gifts to the very groups that threatened banks with accusations of redlining if they did not grant NINJA loans to "disadvantaged" and "low income" people to get them in houses...that, surprise!...they couldn't keep up with the payments on!

[Kwelz]

People really need to take the time to read up on a bill before they cheer about it failing.  As much as it pains me to say this, WE NEED THIS BILL!
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is.  Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there. 

We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble. 

[Manedwolf]

People really need to take the time to read up on a bill before they cheer about it failing.  As much as it pains me to say this, WE NEED THIS BILL!
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is.  Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there. 

We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble. 

Did you actually read the bill? The only one I see saying that are Pelosi and company.

$700,000,000,000. Look at how big that number is.

[sumpnz]

People really need to take the time to read up on a bill before they cheer about it failing.  As much as it pains me to say this, WE NEED THIS BILL!
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is.  Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there. 

We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble. 

NO WE DON'T!!

I want to see this bailout go down in flames.  I want the irresposible businesses to fail.  If that leads to another "Great Depression" (hint: it won't) then I'm OK with that.  Even with the possibility of me winding up as part of the collateral damage.

Nobody learns anything without some pain being involved.  This country needs the pain from these failures to teach us the truth: Debt is Dumb, and Cash is King.  Lehman, Merril, Bear, et al failed becuase they waaayyy overleveraged themeselves and failed to maintain even minimal cash reserves.  If they'd kept to the old 12:1 rule they'd have been able to weather this storm just fine.

[Kwelz]

I am not with Pelosi and Co.  In fact I am heavily involved with the republican Party.  However I disagree with people who say they are fine with the country hitting another Depression.  Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.  I have family that work at banks that aren't in bad shape (hint they aren't tellers) and trust me people a lot smarter than any of us agree that something has to be done or we are going to be in a world of hurt. 

Call me crazy but I want to be able to make my house payment, buy a car, have credit, and otherwise live my life. 

[Manedwolf]

I am not with Pelosi and Co.  In fact I am heavily involved with the republican Party.  However I disagree with people who say they are fine with the country hitting another Depression.  Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.  I have family that work at banks that aren't in bad shape (hint they aren't tellers) and trust me people a lot smarter than any of us agree that something has to be done or we are going to be in a world of hurt. 

Call me crazy but I want to be able to make my house payment, buy a car, have credit, and otherwise live my life. 

Again. DID YOU READ THE BILL?

Because all I'm hearing right now, "Oh noes, another depression if we don't pass it!" is just parroting the talking points. Did you analyze what the bill will and will not do yourself, or are you repeating what someone told you?

Stop and think about it.

[makattak]

People really need to take the time to read up on a bill before they cheer about it failing.  As much as it pains me to say this, WE NEED THIS BILL!
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is.  Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there. 

We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble. 

Perhaps something should be done to aid the market as the government is the cause of this current potential crisis. However, this bill is NOT a good solution.

I am an economist by training. I have even lectured on Financial Crises specifically.

This is not a crisis yet. Not by a long shot. It does, however have the potential to become a financial crisis. A little more financial aversion to risk will not be detrimental in the long run.

In the short run, this will hurt.

Having the government take over the financial system will hurt FAR MORE in the long run.

This is the nature of government, they offer short term solutions to long term problems...

It will be decidedly bad if we fall into a recession. We will not have another Great Depression unless the government decides to screw around and kill the economy like they did during the first one. (For those who don't know: FDR didn't save us from the depression, he turned it INTO the Great Depression. His policies were what prolonged the depression throughout the 1930's).

[AZRedhawk44]

The only thing that saves us going forward is de-regulation.

Remove the shackles that force lending institutions to give mortgages to "minorities" who don't have down payments and can't afford houses, just because they are "minorities."

Allow stupid investors to fail and become chum for good investors.

[Manedwolf]

The only thing that saves us going forward is de-regulation.

Remove the shackles that force lending institutions to give mortgages to "minorities" who don't have down payments and can't afford houses, just because they are "minorities."

Allow stupid investors to fail and become chum for good investors.

And yet this bill gave more incentives to those same groups! It was like adding gasoline and matches. ACORN and other groups would have gotten more money to help put more people, down-payment-free, in houses they could never pay for.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

never mind...

[The Annoyed Man]

I am related to a couple of people whose business is finance and banking. One of which is worth at least a billiion dollars or so. He and her both told me that this is a stock market problem that was created by socialist style gov't regulation of lending institutions. These people made stupid bets based on what can only be described as a ponzi scheme at the core. What has happened is they have run out of fools to sell vapor paper to. When capital found out that the big money was playing both ends against the middle with debt swaps and CDOs. Capital ran. No more fools buying in and the house of cards fell down. Simple as that.

Now local banks are actually seeing increases in deposits as they are not in the game and as such are not having their houses burn down around them. 95% of all mortgages are not in default.

By privatizing profit and socializing losses you are creating economic fascism by definition.

This bill or anyone like it is the wrong solution to this problem. The free market solution must be allowed to prevail. By doing so the country will rebound faster and more robustly. Banks make their money by lending. Don't let the Doomsayers convince you that credit will freeze up. It will not. But it will become unavailable to those who can neither pay for it or use it wisely. Which is a wonderful thing.

Jim

[Intune]

Clinging to guns & religion appears to be fairly prudent, eh?   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68D9XrqyrWo

Yeah, we're gonna bail yer butt out now.  NOT!   

 

[Perd Hapley]

I think Rush spent about half his show today playing that video and commenting.  The word is getting out.

[Intune]

Great!  The more this vid gets disseminated the angrier people will get.  The righteous indignation put forth by the Dems in this video is sickening.

"Hold their feet to the fire?"  Screw that.  That's what we should have done 10-15 years ago.  Now we're at the tar & feather, run out of town on a rail or BURN THE WITCH point.  Tax payers are tired of being buggered.  Folks are MAD.

There is one section of society not royally pissed off.  They have their hands out & live on the dole.  Barry is their savior.

I challenge any Obama/Biden supporter to defend the Dems on this issue.  The gauntlet is thrown.  Any Barry supporter.  And if you can't muster a plausible defense for this asinine behavior how the hell can you vote for a guy that would implement this x10?

Sickening. 

[roo_ster]

Unless they also undo the gov't-side root causes (CRA, Sarbox, etc.) to prevent a similar occurrence in the future, I am not willing to support a $700B short-term fix.

Because we'll be in the same place a few years from now, shelling out big bucks, unless Congress (at the minimum) deal with the gov't-side causes.

[roo_ster]

Well, as of 1345CDT, the markets are back up about half of what they lost yesterday.

I thought as much.  Too many solid companies took it in the shorts and the sharp guys are busy buying them up.

Not the end of the world. 

Symbol         Price         Change    
S&P 500
        1,155.30         +48.91    +4.42%   


Symbol         Price         Change    
DJIA
        10,733.66         +368.21    +3.55%   

[slingshot]

I believe Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are already a done deal.  They were taken over by the government regardless of the 700 billion package.  AIG was in that mix as well with I believe a big loan.

[Intune]

Well, as of 1345CDT, the markets are back up about half of what they lost yesterday.

I thought as much.  Too many solid companies took it in the shorts and the sharp guys are busy buying them up.

Not the end of the world.

Great, now what do I do with this bowl of gruel?   Guess I'll take this noose, er, I mean rope back to the hardware store.  Sheesh, where's the Hale-Bopp guys when one needs a good doomsday story...

[Harold Tuttle]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN3047749420080930

WASHINGTON, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate agreed to vote on a $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday night that will include an increase in the amount of bank deposits insured by the FDIC to $250,000 from $100,000, a Senate aide said on Tuesday.

[sumpnz]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN3047749420080930

WASHINGTON, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate agreed to vote on a $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday night that will include an increase in the amount of bank deposits insured by the FDIC to $250,000 from $100,000, a Senate aide said on Tuesday.

I have no problem with the increase in FDIC insurance limits.  It's been $100k for, what, 2 decades at least?  Long as I can remember anyway.  But, I guess this means I need to call my senators to tell them to oppose the bailout.  If they want to change the "mark to market" rules on the sub-prime mortgage bonds, extend FHA style insurance to the mortgages in those sub-prime bonds, and suspend cap-gains taxes I'm cool with it.  But no taxpayer money should go to buying those bonds or in any way bail out failing companies.