Author Topic: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre  (Read 5045 times)

ArfinGreebly

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Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« on: October 02, 2008, 06:19:26 PM »
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/02/news/companies/insurance_stocks/index.htm

Quote
Insurers dive on Reid's 'bankrupt' quote

Comments from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid about a 'major insurance company' on the verge of bankruptcy send already hard-hit stocks sharply lower.

By Aaron Smith, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: October 2, 2008: 4:19 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Several big life insurance stocks fell sharply Thursday, dragged down by jitters about their role in the credit crisis and fears sparked by a comment from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., Wednesday about a potential bankruptcy in the industry.

"We don't have a lot of leeway on time. One of the individuals in the caucus today talked about a major insurance company. A major insurance company -- one with a name that everyone knows that's on the verge of going bankrupt. That's what this is all about," Reid said prior to the Senate's approval of the $700 billion bailout bill.

Steven Schwartz, an analyst who covers insurance companies for Raymond James & Associates, said that even before Reid made his bankruptcy comment, investors were growing worried about life insurers' exposure to real estate as well as "secondary exposure" via investments in troubled finance firms like Lehman Bros, Wachovia and Washington Mutual.

But the comment from Reid clearly caused even more fear.

"Harry Reid didn't help any," Schwartz said.

New York-based MetLife (MET, Fortune 500) was one of the hardest-hit insurers Thursday. Its stock plunged nearly 16%. Thursday's drop comes after a 14% decline on Wednesday.

In light of this, MetLife issued a statement Thursday afternoon to address Reid's comments.

"The statement yesterday by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid does not apply to MetLife. MetLife is financially sound and has high ratings from all of the major insurance ratings agencies. MetLife is fully able to meet all its obligations," the company said.

Shares of Hartford Financial Services (HIG, Fortune 500) fell about 33%, following a 7% decline on Wednesday. The stock has lost more than half of its value this week.

Jeffrey Schuman, analyst for Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, wrote in a report that the sell-off stems from worries about the company's third quarter results, which will be released later this month.

Schuman estimated that Hartford has "likely" experienced credit losses of up to $800 million from preferred stocks and debt tied to Lehman, AIG and Washington Mutual.

These concerns prompted Fitch Ratings to impose a "negative outlook" on the company Monday, raising more concerns about the company's need for capital.

Schuman wrote in a note that the recent drop was "likely overdone" but added that Hartford will face "difficult operating headwinds and ongoing credit losses" in the near-term.

A call to Hartford for comment Thursday was not immediately returned. But on Wednesday, the company said that its "core operating businesses are performing well and our liquidity remains strong."

A spokesman for Sen. Reid backtracked a bit Thursday and said that the senator was not aware of any company being in danger of bankruptcy.

"Senator Reid is not personally aware of any particular company being on the verge of bankruptcy. He has no special knowledge about [a bankruptcy] nor has he talked to any insurance company officials," said Jim Manley, spokesman for Sen. Reid, in an email to CNNMoney.com.

"Rather, his comments were meant to refer to the conditions in the financial sector generally. He regrets any confusion his comments may have caused," Manley added.

Still, shares of other top life insurers also fell sharply Thursday. Paris-based AXA (AXA) dropped 12.5%%.

Other insurers -- including Canadian based Manulife Financial Corp. (MFC), which owns John Hancock, Prudential Financial (PRU, Fortune 500) and Principal Financial Group (PFG, Fortune 500) -- also slipped, falling 6%, 11% and 15.5% respectively.

Schwartz of Raymond James said some of the concerns about insurers are overblown. He said that, generally speaking, insurers haven't invested in the types of "truly toxic assets" that have led to huge losses for some investment banks and commercial banks.

He described the failure of AIG, which lost billions of dollars on credit default swaps tied to subprime loans and was essentially taken over by the government in exchange for an $85 billion bridge loan, as "very atypical" for the insurance industry.

"The industry will get through this," said Schwartz. "[But] that's not to say there won't be strains."


Ironically, if memory serves, members of the Senate & House can't be held accountable for utterances made on the floor of either chamber.

So, for us, First Amendment protects our speech -- except that you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre or, presumably, "BIG INSURANCE CO. BANKRUPT!" where a bunch of investors will hear it.

For him, though, he can spread all the panic he wants, and no one can touch him.

Could someone help me out here?

Other than un-electing this miserable putz at the ballot box, what are the remedies for completely irresponsible -- and harmful -- utterances by legislators?

"Pinky" keeps getting elected in Nevada.  I don't know if he's planning to run again, but I sure hope Nevada has had enough of him. 

I know I have.
"Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe."

Manedwolf

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 02:46:57 AM »
Isn't this how Schumer killed Bear Sterns?

Waitone

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 02:58:00 AM »
Yup! I want to know if Harry has taken a substantial short position in insurance stock. 
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

buzz_knox

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 03:16:54 AM »
Yup! I want to know if Harry has taken a substantial short position in insurance stock. 

Probably.  And the worse the economy gets, the better his party does.  No one would dare hold them accountable for their actions so they have nothing to lose.

HankB

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 03:28:29 AM »
Yup! I want to know if Harry has taken a substantial short position in insurance stock. 
That was my first thought as well . . . I'd like to see the SEC investigate the stock transactions of Harry, his extended family (wife, kids, brother in law, cousin, etc.) as well as staffers, contributors, & business associates.  police

Chances of that actually happening?

So low as to be indistinguishable from zero.  angry
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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grampster

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 04:49:41 AM »
If you can't begin to believe that leaders in the Democrat party are willing to say and do anything, including wrecking the economy, and our Republic, Reid's comment should be the icing on that cake. 

They have a track record in that regard. 

But don't worry, we'll be safe and have jobs.  We'll be working in the chain gangs that use tree branches to obscure the Democrat footprints that trampled on the Constitution.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

MrRezister

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 04:57:38 AM »
Yup! I want to know if Harry has taken a substantial short position in insurance stock. 

Probably.  And the worse the economy gets, the better his party does.  No one would dare hold them accountable for their actions so they have nothing to lose.

That times seven hundred billion.  This economy tanking is the best thing the Democrats could ever have prayed for.  The Dems got to set up the system for failure, and then blame someone else when that failure actually occurs.  And make plenty of money on stocks going up AND down.  Damn you, Free Market!!!!
He never brought you an unbalanced budget, which is a perennial joke. He never voted himself a wage increase and, to this day, gives back part of his salary every year. He has always voted to preserve the Constitution, cut government spending, lower healthcare costs, end the war on drugs, secure our borders with immigration reform and protect our civil liberties.

longeyes

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 05:45:38 AM »
We're following the history of Argentina. 

What follows chaos?

Order, imposed by the military.

Then entropy.
"Domari nolo."

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agricola

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 12:12:29 PM »
We're following the history of Argentina. 

What follows chaos?

Order, imposed by the military.

Then entropy.

Then the Royal Navy kicks your arse.

 grin

"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
"Make peace, you fools"

Manedwolf

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 12:15:52 PM »
We're following the history of Argentina. 

What follows chaos?

Order, imposed by the military.

Then entropy.

Then the Royal Navy kicks your arse.


Can't. You scrapped that carrier. grin What you got now, one still afloat? Wink

MechAg94

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 12:18:22 PM »
The US has a whole lot more anti-ship missiles and better planes/pilots. 

Not to mention that your entire army is probably only big enough to occupy Rhode Island.  Cheesy
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

agricola

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 12:24:19 PM »
We're following the history of Argentina. 

What follows chaos?

Order, imposed by the military.

Then entropy.

Then the Royal Navy kicks your arse.


Can't. You scrapped that carrier. grin What you got now, one still afloat? Wink

We didnt scrap it, we sold it to the Indians.  We have three baby carriers and a looks-like-a-carrier now, with two (by your standards) half-carriers building.

Anyway, it is the logical conclusion to longeyes point.  You mock now, but soon you will all addicted to tea, rugby, warm beer and substandard dentistry, and our victory will be complete.
"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
"Make peace, you fools"

Manedwolf

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 12:26:42 PM »
We're following the history of Argentina. 

What follows chaos?

Order, imposed by the military.

Then entropy.

Then the Royal Navy kicks your arse.


Can't. You scrapped that carrier. grin What you got now, one still afloat? Wink

We didnt scrap it, we sold it to the Indians.  We have three baby carriers and a looks-like-a-carrier now, with two (by your standards) half-carriers building.

Anyway, it is the logical conclusion to longeyes point.  You mock now, but soon you will all addicted to tea, rugby, warm beer and substandard dentistry, and our victory will be complete.



What CUTE little bathtub carriers the UK has. Do they make a squeak noise when you push them about? grin

And the US, and Navy for that matter, run on coffee, not tea. Smiley

agricola

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 12:35:14 PM »
Quality, not quantity, old chap.

Besides, ours have better names anyway.

 grin

edit:  except Ocean, which is rubbish

"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
"Make peace, you fools"

Perd Hapley

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 03:28:48 PM »
Quote
You mock now, but soon you will all addicted to tea, rugby, warm beer and substandard dentistry, and our victory will be complete.

I'll never join you!


I don't know what you're callin' your ships now, but you all have definitely had some good ones.  Dreadnought.  Case closed. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

TexasRifleman

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2008, 10:36:46 PM »
Quote
ou mock now, but soon you will all addicted to tea, rugby, warm beer and substandard dentistry, and our victory will be complete.

Well maybe it's for the best.  Apparently this quaint little "Republic" experiment has failed royally anyway.

It won't be that much of a change, we still have "God Save The Queen", we just changed the words a little.

And we all think Eddie Izzard is funny.  And some of us like Bubble and Squeak.

We've even been going back to the funny colored money :)

We'll adjust.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 10:39:27 PM by TexasRifleman »

Hutch

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2008, 04:41:47 PM »
Not just good names for HM's ships... OUTSTANDING names.  As a joke, and Anglophile and I used to concoct such names.  Notable examples.

HMS Exasperated
HMS Incontinent
HMS Snarler
HMS Inauspicious
HMS Futile

The list goes on, of cource
"My limited experience does not permit me to appreciate the unquestionable wisdom of your decision"

Seems like every day, I'm forced to add to the list of people who can just kiss my hairy ass.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2008, 07:22:20 PM »

And we all think Eddie Izzard is funny.  And some of us like Bubble and Squeak.


Eddie who? 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

TexasRifleman

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2008, 08:04:58 PM »
Quote
Eddie who? 

See, you will never survive in the colonies......

ArfinGreebly

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Eddie Izzard
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2008, 10:30:22 PM »
Quote
Eddie who?

Search him up on YouTube.

I won't even try to describe him.

Funny guy, though.

Quote
Running, jumping, climbing trees, putting on lipstick when you're up there.

(Language warning, though.  Kinda 'R' rated.)

"Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe."

buzz_knox

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Re: Harry Reid Shouts Fire In Crowded Theatre
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2008, 02:50:48 PM »
Well maybe it's for the best.  Apparently this quaint little "Republic" experiment has failed royally anyway.

We are more likely to become like many other former (and current) British subjects:  socialist and ruled by a repressive gov't.