Author Topic: Palin abused power, panel says  (Read 11895 times)

Jamisjockey

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Palin abused power, panel says
« on: October 10, 2008, 09:07:17 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_el_pr/palin_troopergate

Quote

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer 16 minutes ago

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Sarah Palin unlawfully abused her power as governor by trying to have her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper, the chief investigator of an Alaska legislative panel concluded Friday. The politically charged inquiry imperiled her reputation as a reformer on John McCain's Republican ticket.
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Investigator Stephen Branchflower, in a report by a bipartisan panel that investigated the matter, found Palin in violation of a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain.
JD

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RocketMan

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 10:09:32 PM »
Another nail in the McCain/Palin campaign coffin.
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wacki

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 10:30:16 PM »
read about it from a different news source and laugh.....

This report is about her husband "using her office" among other state resources to gain information about a violent public servant.

No indictments, no charges, Zzzzz.............

oh and this "bipartisan panel" has a few suspect people on it.

De Selby

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 10:51:16 PM »
read about it from a different news source and laugh.....

This report is about Tod "using her office" among other state resources

oh and this "bipartisan panel" has a few suspect people on it

Wasn't the vote unanimous, though?

Hey, I remember speculating that Palin was going to turn out to be a serious impediment to McCain's campaign....looks like all the claims of "not properly vetted" and "not up to the campaigning" turned out to be more or less correct.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 10:58:13 PM »
Wasn't the vote unanimous, though?

Hey, I remember speculating that Palin was going to turn out to be a serious impediment to McCain's campaign....looks like all the claims of "not properly vetted" and "not up to the campaigning" turned out to be more or less correct.

I have one question, SS.

What are your own political views?
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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 11:04:17 PM »
Do not forget that she is willing to call GOP members onto the carpet as quickly as the dems.
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De Selby

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2008, 11:10:10 PM »
I have one question, SS.

What are your own political views?

I am fundamentally in support of government by consent, which to me, means that the people in a nation get the final determination as to what kind of country they live in via democracy.

On particular issues within the democratic state, my beliefs are independent of the party ideologies and issue specific-I do not believe that either of the major political parties represents the majority of Americans, and I think both are fundamentally similar, which serves to deprive of us of the right to vote.  In my view, presenting options and structuring the political debate in such a way that a wide array of arguments are taken seriously and submitted to voters will allow us to develop a politics that fits America and consequently allow Americans to reap the benefits of democracy.

The best description of my views would be a combo of Ron Paul and Ralph Nader-I agree that government welfare for corporations is ruinuous and tends to destroy the otherwise beneficial free market by stacking th deck in favor of the politically connected, and I also  believe that people should be able to protect themselves from the externalities of private decisions (which is where Naderesque product regulation and consumer protection comes in.)  

The free market is a good idea, but it depends on all interested parties to a transaction being able to negotiate-if you have one deal, say, to set up financial products, that benefits the two parties involved but destroys the credit markets for the rest of the country, that's a de facto tax/forced purchase that the folks who suffer the consequences were unable to negotiate.  So, you need the government, via democratic organs, to give people in a say in such transactions as needed.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2008, 11:33:13 PM »
Okay, here's my argument:

Yes, Palin is problematic. But she's closer to my views than the other three guys, who are also problematic, so I'm happy to see her around.
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De Selby

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2008, 11:37:28 PM »
Okay, here's my argument:

Yes, Palin is problematic. But she's closer to my views than the other three guys, who are also problematic, so I'm happy to see her around.

That's exactly what all of the Iowans in your old sig line were thinking too.

The reality is that the differences between the two are rhetorical-if you look at Presidents and parties holding congress since Carter, the fundamental policies were hardly different once you put aside the hot air and whining.  What they all actually did wrt foreign policy, the economy, and welfare, has been essentially the same.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2008, 11:49:24 PM »
My old sig? I haven't changed it.
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wacki

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2008, 11:58:50 PM »
That's exactly what all of the Iowans in your old sig line were thinking too.

The reality is that the differences between the two are rhetorical-if you look at Presidents and parties holding congress since Carter, the fundamental policies were hardly different once you put aside the hot air and whining.  What they all actually did wrt foreign policy, the economy, and welfare, has been essentially the same.

If you think Obama is the same as McCain on this issue:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-and-the-attempt-to-destroy-the-second-amendment/

You are a stark raving lunatic.  So, what is your opinion on the above article?

MicroBalrog

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008, 12:02:07 AM »
If you think Obama is the same as McCain on this issue:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-and-the-attempt-to-destroy-the-second-amendment/

You are a stark raving lunatic.  So, what is your opinion on the above article?

McCain is anti-gun. Obama is even more anti-gun.

McCain is anti-free speech. Obama is even more anti-free speech.

McCain supports Gitmo slightly more than Obama, on the other hand.

McCain supports the bailout, so does Obama.

Both of these people are the same in principle. they differ only in technicalities and in the extent in which they will follow these principles.

Obama is going to race towards the cliff in an F-1 car, and McCain is going there on a NASCAR stock car, but they're BOTH HEADED TOWARDS THE CLIFF.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

De Selby

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008, 01:05:16 AM »
I agree with Micro.

The fact is, because their principles are the same, the extent of the damage they do has to do with the polls and political climate of the hour.  If it suddenly becomes more popular to get more extreme, both will do it, and both will moderate if absolutely necessary.  It's more important to make sure that lobbying efforts are well funded and organized than to worry about who becomes president with candidates like these.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2008, 01:10:15 AM »
I seem to remember that shootinstudent claimed Obama and McCain were indistinguishable on the abortion issue.  I never quite understood that claim, either. 

And I thought the dust-up about her brother-in-law happened before she became governor.  Didn't it? 

I should like to add that, when a Republican becomes "more extreme," it probably means that he is taking a more sensible position.

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De Selby

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2008, 01:14:31 AM »
I seem to remember that shootinstudent claimed Obama and McCain were indistinguishable on the abortion issue.  I never quite understood that claim, either. 

And I thought the dust-up about her brother-in-law happened before she became governor.  Didn't it? 

I should like to add that, when a Republican becomes "more extreme," it probably means that he is taking a more sensible position.



No-the report was specifically about her use of the office of the governor in the trooper firing scandal.

I do believe McCain and Obama are indistinguishable in deeds and potential on abortion-either one will do what the polls command at the moment, and not what he claims to believe about it on the campaign trail. 

In any case, as an evaluative matter I think it's pretty clear that Palin turned out to be more burden than boone on the campaign trail.  I see it as one in a long series of mistakes on the campaign trail for McCain, who would be having a tough time winning anyway at this point given his ties to George Bush and the other folks behind the economic policy of the past two terms.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Modifiedbrowning

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2008, 01:25:33 AM »
Quote
Monegan's firing was lawful, the report found, but Palin let the family grudge influence her decision-making — even if it was not the sole reason Monegan was dismissed.

So, how is this abuse of power if it is lawful?

Quote
Wooten had been in hot water before Palin became governor over allegations that he illegally shot a moose, drank beer in a patrol car and used a Taser on his stepson. The Palins said they feared for their family's safety after Wooten made threats against them.


The answer is yes Scapegoat, oh sorry, Mr. Tactical Pants.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2008, 01:34:51 AM »
Quote
In any case, as an evaluative matter I think it's pretty clear that Palin turned out to be more burden than boone on the campaign trail.

SS, you and/or Freak have been saying this, and it runs counter to every poll and article I've read. Do you have any citations that Palin is a burden?

As for the "bipartisan panel," that deck was stacked long ago by French and Monegan.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2008, 01:45:24 AM »
In any case, as an evaluative matter I think it's pretty clear that Palin turned out to be more burden than boone on the campaign trail.
Again, I must ask who would have been more beneficial than Palin.  The base was not going to turn out for McCain.  Now they will be.  With Palin, he has a slight chance.  Without her, he had even less.  If you don't understand that, don't feel bad about it.  It just means you don't understand the Republican base.  I had the chance to hang out with Palin's fans after her debate.  The excitement when she entered the arena at SLU was intense.  Those people simply WILL NOT CARE why or how she fired one of her staff. 


Quote
I see it as one in a long series of mistakes on the campaign trail for McCain, who would be having a tough time winning anyway at this point given his ties to George Bush and the other folks behind the economic policy of the past two terms.

Which people are those? 
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De Selby

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2008, 02:43:37 AM »
SS, you and/or Freak have been saying this, and it runs counter to every poll and article I've read. Do you have any citations that Palin is a burden?

As for the "bipartisan panel," that deck was stacked long ago by French and Monegan.

Yes-if you watch the averages on RCP (which I think has the best collection online here: http://realclearpolitics.com/) you can see clearly that McCain's numbers (and the sample of editorials covering the numbers) started slipping definitively when Palin was turned loose for interviews, in tandem with the falling stock market, and the conservative press became just as critical in some spots as the liberal press.

There are many articles here pointing out the shortcomings.  I found this particularly insightful: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/palins_last_stand.html 
Quote
Then the cracks began to show. At first, following Palin's non-answer to ABC's Charlie Gibson about her thoughts on the Bush Doctrine, conservatives were ready to defend her. The Bush Doctrine, they noted correctly, has had several iterations, and Gibson's question revealed more about his biases than Palin's answer revealed about her foreign-policy knowledge.

Then came the Katie Couric interview, where Palin's unsteady performance raised even more questions. Two weeks after she'd been criticized for saying that being able to see Russia from her home state counted as foreign policy experience, Palin reiterated the same argument in an even less convincing fashion.

Although Palin was still attracting huge crowds, concern became evident among the conservative commentariat. Some began arguing to "let Palin be Palin."" As Bill Kristol wrote in his New York Times column, "McCain picked Sarah Palin in part because she's a talented politician and communicator. He needs to free her to use her political talents and to communicate in her own voice."

Others, however, had seen enough. Kathleen Parker called for Palin to step down, saying that her three interviews with Gibson, Hannity and Couric "revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League."
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2008, 03:01:21 AM »

Which people are those? 

The Senate, the House, the financial industry giants (some of whom were apparently paying McCain's staff!?), and his past association with the savings and loan crowd like Keating certainly is not helping him. 
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2008, 03:10:48 AM »
McCain is anti-gun. Obama is even more anti-gun.

McCain is anti-free speech. Obama is even more anti-free speech.

McCain supports Gitmo slightly more than Obama, on the other hand.

McCain supports the bailout, so does Obama.

Both of these people are the same in principle. they differ only in technicalities and in the extent in which they will follow these principles.

Obama is going to race towards the cliff in an F-1 car, and McCain is going there on a NASCAR stock car, but they're BOTH HEADED TOWARDS THE CLIFF.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it.
Thank you for posting this.
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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2008, 03:26:26 AM »
The Senate, the House, the financial industry giants (some of whom were apparently paying McCain's staff!?), and his past association with the savings and loan crowd like Keating certainly is not helping him. 

But Franklin Raines being Obama's advisor and Obama Himself being #2 on the GSE (Fannie and Freddie) money list (Not bad for only being in the Senate <3 years), only behind the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, is nothing to be concerned with. 

Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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HankB

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2008, 07:42:36 AM »
Yes-if you watch the averages on RCP (which I think has the best collection online here: http://realclearpolitics.com/) you can see clearly that McCain's numbers (and the sample of editorials covering the numbers) started slipping definitively when Palin was turned loose for interviews, in tandem with the falling stock market, and the conservative press became just as critical in some spots as the liberal press.
Note that many in the so-called "conservative" press would have been considered rather liberal some 30 years ago.

As far as polls and the stock market . . . from here, it looks like stocks really began to tank as Obama's numbers went up . . . maybe investors are justifiably worried about a socialist (in outlook, if not in name) taking over.
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agricola

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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2008, 08:44:18 AM »
"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
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Re: Palin abused power, panel says
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2008, 08:56:35 AM »
No-the report was specifically about her use of the office of the governor in the trooper firing scandal.

I still find it hard to believe that this ever made it to the level of a scandal; doesn't the Alaska State Patrol provide the governor's security just like the DPS does here in Texas?  I would be willing to bet that any DPS trooper, especially one with a spotty record already, who had made credible threats against Governor Perry or any member of his immediate family before his election would be in for a lot worse than a suspension, and that any supervisor who tried to get in the way would be out pretty quick too.