Author Topic: Portable Wealth? (Read 11998 times)

The Rabbi · « **Reply #25 on:** October 07, 2005, 01:32:22 PM »

El Tejon,
This is Tennesee. My wife's clients are lucky they know what a book is. I dont think we have exemption for family bibles here--just a unified dollar amount for household goods. In FL it used to be you could exempt your homestead so people bought million dollar mansions. I have a Torah scroll that is worth probably over $5k. I wonder if I could use that for my family bible. The laws are changing as of the 17th, as you know.
Books and other collectibles are difficult since their value is hard to determine. They are also subjet to things like burning and breakage. Also bulky and hard to move.
The advantage of bearer bonds was that the value was instantly recognizable. Gold coins similarly. Stones much less so.

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #26 on:** October 07, 2005, 02:49:18 PM »

The big question is, how much are you willing to start over with? I've been poor, and we did just fine.
If I were worried about starting over, maybe in a new place, I'd have some gold (sell it in small quantities to avoid scrutiny), extra guns that could be sold, ammo, and some sort of trade/skill that is useful and I could self-start with. I'd move to a small town where living is cheap.
Does anyone know if gold keeps up with inflation?

What about savings bonds in your childs name? Can the parent cash those?

roo_ster · « **Reply #27 on:** October 07, 2005, 04:04:06 PM »

Its pretty obvious that none of us are criminal, financial masterminds. I bet organized crime has figured out ways around this.

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #28 on:** October 07, 2005, 04:59:30 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0873649591/103-1684980-4568601?v=glance
Look what I found.

280plus · « **Reply #29 on:** October 08, 2005, 02:55:20 AM »

Quote

by Adam Starchild "The significance of gold as a highly valuable substance is almost entirely the product of the fertile mind of man..."

I know that in tyhe early days of European settlement in Australia gold was just laying around on the ground, discarded as useless by the natives as it was too soft to do anything useful with. The natives were MORE THAN WILLING to pick this gold up for the white man and trade it for what THEY found as valuable, IRON. The natives considered the white man crazy for risking his life to get what to them was totally worthless.

Sorry about the side track...

Wink

Guest · « **Reply #30 on:** October 08, 2005, 06:41:21 AM »

The retention of value of an item is entirely dependent on how far down the slope civilization has slid.
Functioning Government in place? Cash is king.
Multiple warlord fiefdoms? If you don't have thier currency, you may be out of luck, gold might be better. Gold does have a huge disadvantage in this country however, we have not had it in general circulation for so long most people will be perplexed by it .
Society totally broken down, armed gangs roving the streets? Food, clothing , and weapons .
Antiques, gems, and other esoteric items may have a high value but are not liquid in any realistic sense. The guy who has the food you need may not give a damn about your 12 century chalice. These items may work best if the intention is to get them to a secure area and swap them for cash. -if you have time.

White Horseradish · « **Reply #31 on:** October 08, 2005, 10:21:37 AM »

The trouble with diamonds is that only a professional can determine the value accurately. The jewelry community isn't that large and a lot of those people know each other and swap merchandise on consignement. This makes stones and jewelry much more traceable than you would think.

I used to work at a jewelry store where some items were stolen. The thief made it to Switzerland and tried to sell some. The salesman recognized the merchandise because it had been loaned to their shop just a few months before, stalled and called the cops. The thief got busted.

S. Williamson · « **Reply #32 on:** October 08, 2005, 03:50:18 PM »

.22 ammo, cash sealed in FoodSaver bags, and cigarettes. If the chips are down and you have these, you have everything.

Plus they're all pretty portable, and useful in a good many situations.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #33 on:** October 08, 2005, 03:55:12 PM »

Quote from: Dionysusigma

.22 ammo, cash sealed in FoodSaver bags, and cigarettes. If the chips are down and you have these, you have everything.

Plus they're all pretty portable, and useful in a good many situations.

How long can cigarettes keep? I dont smoke but I have the idea they get rancid or something.

Antibubba · « **Reply #34 on:** October 08, 2005, 11:37:12 PM »

Rabbi, as it turns out, you're in luck. As it turns out, I am the heir to a large fortune in my home country of Nigeria...

K Frame · « **Reply #35 on:** October 09, 2005, 05:51:40 AM »

Cigarettes will get stale as hell, but if kept in a humidity controlled environment, they can actually keep for years, the same with cigars.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #36 on:** October 09, 2005, 06:45:33 AM »

Quote from: Antibubba

Rabbi, as it turns out, you're in luck. As it turns out, I am the heir to a large fortune in my home country of Nigeria...

Really? Maybe you could transfer the money into my bank account and just pay me a percentage?

Guest · « **Reply #37 on:** October 09, 2005, 07:33:27 AM »

Quote from: The Rabbi

Quote from: Dionysusigma

.22 ammo, cash sealed in FoodSaver bags, and cigarettes. If the chips are down and you have these, you have everything.

Plus they're all pretty portable, and useful in a good many situations.

How long can cigarettes keep? I dont smoke but I have the idea they get rancid or something.

Kept dry cigarettes will be smokable untill the world is run by cockroaches. They won't necessarily be "good" but trust me, if you find a smoker who hasnt had a light for awhile it *really* wont matter. Cigars are the same, in fact a little aging does a cigar quite well. There are still some pre-embargo Cuban's floating around.

XLMiguel · « **Reply #38 on:** October 09, 2005, 07:14:10 PM »

Hmmmm. It seems that the key attributes beyond portability are liquidity (is it of recognized value and easy convertibility) and accessibility (can you get to it easily). In order to satisfy those requirements across a variety of 'social situations' it seems a diversified portfolio is in order, e.g. a mix of currency, gold, and barterable commodities that can be easily and conveniently secured. I have yet to figure what the ideal mix is . . .

The Rabbi · « **Reply #39 on:** October 10, 2005, 04:44:45 AM »

Quote from: Mike in VA

Hmmmm. It seems that the key attributes beyond portability are liquidity (is it of recognized value and easy convertibility) and accessibility (can you get to it easily). In order to satisfy those requirements across a variety of 'social situations' it seems a diversified portfolio is in order, e.g. a mix of currency, gold, and barterable commodities that can be easily and conveniently secured. I have yet to figure what the ideal mix is . . .

the answer is lots of it, whatever "it" is.

There is a story about a wealthy German Jew in the 1930s who saw what was coming. He began selling off his real estate and business and buying gems. After he got his family out it was time for him to go. He took his gems and hid them in raw potatoes, dressed himself like a beggar, and hopped a train for Switzerland. The potatoes started to rot (nothing smells worse). He was accosted by two SS men at the border and when they opened his bag and smelled the rotting potatoes they rushed him through.

roo_ster · « **Reply #40 on:** October 10, 2005, 08:07:43 AM »

I love stories where a the underdog outwits his antogonists and ends well.

I also like stories where Nazis are get the sh!t end of the stick.

K Frame · « **Reply #41 on:** October 10, 2005, 09:43:29 AM »

Given the Nigerian scams and all that, I'm really surprised that no one has tried to pull one involving Nazi gold...

BrokenPaw · « **Reply #42 on:** October 10, 2005, 09:53:04 AM »

Quote

Given the Nigerian scams and all that, I'm really surprised that no one has tried to pull one involving Nazi gold...

Well, gee, thanks, Mike. There went my plans to get rich... rolleyes

-BP,

HForrest · « **Reply #43 on:** October 10, 2005, 02:18:10 PM »

Gold is universally recognized as money, and it's easy to determine its integrity. In large scale and smaller or personal SHTF situations, gold can a very helpful commodity. Buy some Krugerands and bury them in a sealed PVC pipe (as recommended before). It's very expensive now... but my theory is that there'll be a big spike, and it will come down, but never to the point it was before. Look at the charts from 1979-1981... that's exactly what happened when it rocketed to $850 in 1980.

Silver Bullet · « **Reply #44 on:** October 10, 2005, 02:24:27 PM »

By the way, PVC is known to damage coins, so make sure your coins are in another, non-PVC container, inside the PVC pipe.

Tupperware should work well, even zip-locks made for food storage.

Guest · « **Reply #45 on:** October 13, 2005, 10:27:37 AM »

Gold has some disadvantages, as I see it.
SHTF scenario -The downside- You - "I want to buy that (insert desired object or sevice), I have this gold coin". Him_ "how do I know it's gold?" "how do I know it's pure?" and most important-"how do I know what it's value is? The answer is , of course, he will not know , so, in order to cover his ass while dealing with an unknown quanity, he will offer far less than what your expected valuation is. And this is going to be worse in this country than say, in India or some other place people are used to trading in gold. You may very well find yourself trading a Krugerand for a pack of cigarettes. Gold has no intrinsic value, except as a metalugical component. Same is true of gems.
A truly high value, extremely lightweight , totally transferable liquid item ?-- maybe knowledge. It can never be taken from you and is totally invisable. What is the value of a Doctor, mechanic, carpenter or gunsmith when the SHTF?
Commodity's are a definite, but they are bulky. Cigarettes, coffee, booze, all will retain value just fine. But how do you carry? The downside here is the value is enhanced in the stricken area, in the calm area it will decline.
So I guess the question is really, what do you want from the "wealth stash". Is it a trading item that continues to have value in the disaster, or is it a fund to be converted back into currency when you get to civilization?

The Rabbi · « **Reply #46 on:** October 14, 2005, 08:13:36 AM »

All of that is true, sort of.
By definition no trading partners make a trade without it benefitting both parties. So if someone wanted a pack of cigarettes bad enough and all he had that the other party wanted was gold, then they would make the trade. If you had a bag of diamonds but no water you would be happily trading the diamonds for water after a while.
Many gold coins made expressly for bullion come with the weight and fineness stamped on them. Determining value is relatively easy.
What I am concerned with is two scenarios:
-SHTF, but only in local terms, e.g. Katrina. A person then would migrate from the affected area to the unaffected area. Gold is valuable here because it is relatively impervious to things like fire, unlike cash.
-Hiding wealth in an untraceable form. Make up your scenario as you see fit.

News:

Author Topic: Portable Wealth? (Read 11998 times)

Guest

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XLMiguel

HForrest

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