One of the increasing reasons why I will never join the Military

[Guest]

Of the United States, that is:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101302166.html

His hand had been blown off in Iraq, his body pierced by shrapnel. He could not walk. Robert Loria was flown home for a long recovery at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where he tried to bear up against intense physical pain and reimagine his life's possibilities.

The last thing on his mind, he said, was whether the Army had correctly adjusted his pay rate -- downgrading it because he was out of the war zone -- or whether his combat gear had been accounted for properly: his Kevlar helmet, his suspenders, his rucksack.
   
But nine months after Loria was wounded, the Army garnished his wages and then, as he prepared to leave the service, hit him with a $6,200 debt. That was just before last Christmas, and several lawmakers scrambled to help. This spring, a collection agency started calling. He owed another $646 for military housing.

[TarpleyG]

You should not join the military for service to your government but for service to your country.  You do realize which one is screwing this poor man, right?  This is of course wrong and I consider it a huge flaw in the system.  I once got a bill for a lost gas mask...it was stolen from me during a training exercise and when I reported it as such, no one made any attempts whatsoever to locate the ahole that stole it from me.

Greg

[Moondoggie]

Then start with Congress.

All military pay procedures are dictated by federal law.  The military has no choice but to comply.  Each service has an accounting arm that is in turn audited by the GAO.  The regulations are mind boggeling to the uninitiated.

That said, there are procedures to waiver indebtedness to the Gov't.  Lost gear in a combat area is routinely "written off".  No pilot has ever had to pony-up several million when he wrecked a perfectly good airplane due to "pilot error".  Conversely, in some "rocks & schoals" outfits truck drivers have had to pay for damages to a gov't vehicle if they were found to be negligent.  Officers vs. enlisted....go figure!  Overpayments of pay and allowances are generally not waivered.

In this guy's case, it seems that the Army didn't stop his combat pay and probably combat zone income tax exclusion when he was med evaced out of theater.  He was paid money in his paycheck that he was no longer entitled to collect.  When the Army audited his pay account prior to separation (they pretty much go back to day 1 of your service) they discovered that he had been paid money that he didn't earn according to the requirements of the law.  "They" have no choice but to recoup the overpayment.  "They" are responsible to Congress and the American People to ensure that all payments are made in accordance with current law.  This is a VERY common occurance...the media is sensationalizing it because the soldier was wounded.  9 times out of 10 the soldier KNOWS that they're being overpaid...they just keep their mouth shut hoping that nobody will notice.

It's a simple accounting procedure.  "The Law" says you were paid gov't money that you weren't entitled to...The Gov't is now taking it back.

This story is similar to the hype your heard about the old lady who "got" 8 million $ from McDonald's for burning herself with hot coffee.  Did you ever see her on camera holding up the check?  No?  That's because she most likely got next-to-nothing after the next higher level court action that McDonald's took the case to on appeal.  You almost never hear "the rest of the story"...just the sensational part.

You'll also never see a follow-up story explaining that this servicemember had the "indebtedness" waived.

[Gewehr98]

Yeah, this happens so often, it's simply intolerable.

It's happened to me a bazillion times in my 20+ years in the service. (not)

We did lose a radiation survey meter once, but we accomplished a Report of Survey (common DoD form) and it was written off.

No government or military branch of that government is perfect in their accounting practices.  But if you want to base your decision on joining based on how things should be vs. reality, then by all means...

[jefnvk]

Ummm...

If my regular job overpays me, they are going to take it out of my next few pay checks.  Regardless of whose fault it is.  Why should the Army be different?

Also, this is happening to 200 people, when you drop the 100 that have been taken care of.  I don't see this as a huge problem, just a glitch that will probably be taken care of when they get around to talking to someone in charge.

[280plus]

Reminds me of a "Bowery Boys" movie where Louie Dumbrowsky was being chased by the Army for a cooking pot he lost during WWII. Even though it was ficticious I'll bet they got the idea from a real life situation. Meaning this ain't new by any means.

[grampster]

Blackburn, that's because you are thinking about this man's sacrifice, which was a result of serving his country, then having the bean counters disregard his reality over balancing books.

You have the right idea.  Get the law changed to allow for the amelioration of book keeping errors when the party is injured in a combat zone.  It'll be a good excercise in discovery of how screwed up the political system is.

[Moondoggie]

Grampster...

There is a process for "amelioration" of indebtedness.  It's called a "waiver".  If the member can show that it arose through no fault of their own, and/or repayment would cause "undue hardship" the debt can be erased.  A servicemember has the right to pursue a waiver of indebtedness for any amount over $100.  Collection action is held in abeyance during the waiver application process.  The waiver authorities are extremely liberal in granting waivers.  The standard/burden of proof is very low for the servicemember.

One part of this Soldier's problem that the military cannot touch is the money owed to the IRS.  When you go into a combat zone, you are eligible for a "Combat Zone Income Tax Exclusion."  There are certain conditions that must be met, including a minimum amount of time in the zone...IIRC it's 11 months without returning to CONUS, even for 1 day.   If he didn't meet the requirement for the exclusion, then he owes "back witholding" amounts because he's now gonna have the normal income tax liability.

As I said earlier, we'll never hear the "rest of the story" is a waiver is granted because it's not bad news or anti-gov't.