A SEAL Team could take care of this BS...

[De Selby]

It's funny, but somehow I knew you'd find a way to justify grabbing your ankles before you even posted. 

Yeah, I guess it's just tough for me to waive my online guns and shout "kill kill kill!" when I see that there might be something rational to be said on the topic.

Only in 21st century America does "standing tall" as opposed to "grabbing your ankles" mean sitting at a computer and typing death threats to gangs of Somali pirates.

[Bigjake]

You're right.  Let's pay them to play nice.  That'll work!

Appeasement has NEVER worked.  Is this such a hard thing for you to wrap your head around?

I've got a great idea,  Lets give arms and support to these "mujahadeen".  They'll keep the Russian's busy!  What could possibly go wrong??



 

[De Selby]

You're right.  Let's pay them to play nice.  That'll work!

Appeasement has NEVER worked.  Is this such a hard thing for you to wrap your head around?

I've got a great idea,  Lets give arms and support to these "mujahadeen".  They'll keep the Russian's busy!  What could possibly go wrong??

Or, going further back.

 

No need to go any further back than to my first post, where you will notice a lack of "nice" or "lets pay them not to do this."   What I proposed was paying someone who knows who the pirates are and lives there anyway to kill most of the pirates.  Paying one gang member to kill another is not paying gangs to be nice.

I think our disagreement stems from the fact that I'm seeing more to the problem than can be solved by saying "kill them!" on the internet.  I really don't believe it's that simple.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I saw an article years back, about some Mercs off the Ivory Coast.  They got a nice looking yacht, and cruised around til' pirates took the bait, and then slaughtered them to a man.


reading sof?  who was paying them?

[Bigjake]

I saw an article years back, about some Mercs off the Ivory Coast.  They got a nice looking yacht, and cruised around til' pirates took the bait, and then slaughtered them to a man.


reading sof?  who was paying them?

Unsure where it originated, just saw it on a forum.  I think it was the old TFL.

I think our disagreement stems from the fact that I'm seeing more to the problem than can be solved by saying "kill them!" on the internet.  I really don't believe it's that simple.

I'm sure that's the case.  Only I believe that a concerted anti piracy effort would be more beneficial in the long run than just having a pet pirate on payroll.

Somali pirates are best kept in check when they're room temperature.

[never_retreat]

I think the us should just park a couple of destroyers off shore and warm up the 16" guns.

[RocketMan]

I think the us should just park a couple of destroyers off shore and warm up the 16" guns.

Yep, a destroyer with 16 inch guns, that I'd like to see.  Still floating right side up after the first broadside.
 

[RaspberrySurprise]

I think the us should just park a couple of destroyers off shore and warm up the 16" guns.

Dude I don't think a destroyer would still even be afloat after adding that much weight to it.

[jackdanson]

News story last night said that nations "didn't know what to do" with captured pirates, as the law was "murky."

I think they solved this years ago... walk the plank matey... yargggg.






Just joking, that's cruel.  Just shoot them in the head.

[Physics]

Duh, they just need to ban guns in Somalia... :rolleyes: That would stop those pirates.  Get McCarthy on the phone, I'm sure she's pretty ignorant of these pirate-guy-things, which makes it right up her alley. 

I mean really, where is Biden when you need him?  They obviously need a .50 cal "sniper rifle" ban, just look at how many ships are getting hijacked.  It's all the guns fault you know, let's ban their guns.   :rolleyes:

[Nitrogen]

Let the Marines go back to Africa to take care of it.  Sometimes you just need to tell the Marines:
"I don't care what you do, just don't bring any trouble back here."

This would be one of those times.

I had another thought.  So many of those oil-rich nations have money to burn: let 'em pay us to keep their oil safe.  Say, 1/3 of the cargo becomes ours?  I dunno.  I'm half asleep, in a rotten mood, and it probably shows 

[cordex]

What I proposed was paying someone who knows who the pirates are and lives there anyway to kill most of the pirates.  Paying one gang member to kill another is not paying gangs to be nice.

Yeah, because there is no way that could go badly.  Since the US has such a great history in picking the right thugs to support, and all.

I guess I just don't get how paying pirates to kill each other would improve anything.  There's already plenty of incentive to do just that and the problem still exists.  Also, a single, consolidated pirate power (with international support at that) would hardly be more desirable than many small groups of bad guys.

I think our disagreement stems from the fact that I'm seeing more to the problem than can be solved by saying "kill them!" on the internet.  I really don't believe it's that simple.

Actually, you do.  You just wanted to hire locals do to the killing.

I tend to prefer the idea of ships being protected by mercs.  Even one out of ten would make the odds a little scarier for the pirates.

By the way, this is an interesting map: http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=89

Lots of pirate action out there ...

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

who's paying the mercs? 

[HankB]

Last night, some IDIOT was talking about using fire hoses to keep the pirates away . . . and then some other IDIOT talked about using "high frequency sound projectors" to force the pirates to keep their distance.

You wonder if these IDIOTS ever listen to the nonsense they're spouting.

A couple of 50 caliber machine guns on every ship and a couple of men trained to use them would do wonders to make piracy more dangerous to the pirates.

Perfect solution?

No. If you're asleep at the wheel and nobody's on lookout you may not notice the pirates until they're already on board. But overall, it's cheap, can be implemented immediately, and it will cut piracy by 90%.

The only obstacle - and I mean the ONLY obstacle - is institutional hoplophobia.

[MicroBalrog]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

It's been some 200 years, and yet again we're debating whether or not to pay tribute to North African Muslim pirates.

That's not what he suggested and you know it. All he suggested was hiring local mercenaries to do your killing.

[Bigjake]

L
Perfect solution?

No. If you're asleep at the wheel and nobody's on lookout you may not notice the pirates until they're already on board. But overall, it's cheap, can be implemented immediately, and it will cut piracy by 90%.

And it's the only solution that isn't outright Bovine Excrement.

[Jamisjockey]

The only obstacle - and I mean the ONLY obstacle - is institutional international hoplophobia.

Fixed.









And SS,
I don't think you realize how easy it would be for the US Navy to use small boats and interdict the pirate boats.  Small unit move to contact tactics dictate you look for the enemy.  Close within range.  If you draw fire, overwhelm and destroy him with fire and maneuver.  My presumption is that the ROE don't/wouldn't allow free fire on the pirates.
But since you've never been in the military you wouldn't know that.  No need to hire thugs or mercenarys to do the dirty work, we've got highly trained and motivated Sailors and Marines that could effectively and rapidly reduce piracy in that region.
Also, these are countries with little to no central government.  Its a threat to international commerce and should be dealt with.

[Dannyboy]

Last night, some IDIOT was talking about using fire hoses to keep the pirates away . . . and then some other IDIOT talked about using "high frequency sound projectors" to force the pirates to keep their distance.

You wonder if these IDIOTS ever listen to the nonsense they're spouting.

Considering some attacks have already been repelled with non-lethal devices, you should have an idea of what you're talking about before you call someone an IDIOT.  Or else you end up looking like the IDIOT.

This is from an article on the Lloyd's List website:
British private security guards have repulsed a Somali pirate attack on an unidentified chemtanker, using equipment billed as the sonic equivalent of a laser, according to Nick Davis, a former army pilot who launched Anti-Piracy Maritime Security Solutions earlier this year. Davis claims to have three-man teams of ex-special forces personnel currently working on six vessels in the Gulf of Aden, with this engagement marking the first actual clash. The incident took place just 18 miles off the coast of Yemen, inside the Maritime Security Patrol Area established in August by a coalition of international navies, and over 300 miles north of the Somali coast. “There was a direct approach at high speed towards our ship. We then activated our procedures. The ship started evasive manoeuvres, all the hoses were on full power. Then we used the magnetic acoustic device,” said Davis.

- Lloyd’s List: Private guards ward off Somali pirate attack
http://www.lloydslist.com/ll/news/pirate-attack-repelled-by-ex-special-forces-team/1226579738234.htm

Now, don't get me wrong, I think the best solution is definitely to blow up their boats and their little "piratetown" as well.  Unfortunately, as I said earlier, it's not that easy. 

[MicroBalrog]

 Somali Islamists 'hunt pirates'

Somali Islamist insurgents have begun searching for the pirates who hijacked a giant Saudi-owned oil tanker last Saturday, reports say.

A spokesman for the al-Shabab group, Abdelghafar Musa, said hijacking a Muslim-owned ship was a major crime and they would pursue those responsible.

The pirates are thought to be trying to obtain a multi-million dollar ransom.

The ship, the Sirius Star, is believed to be be anchored off the Somali port of Haradheere.

It has an international crew of 25 people and is carrying $100m (£67m) worth of crude oil.

'Show of force'

"We are really sorry to hear that the Saudi ship has been held in Somalia," Mr Musa told the Associated Press.

"We will fight them."

Reports said Islamist fighters had descended on Haradheere in an apparent show of force, saying they were looking for the pirates.

"The Islamists arrived searching for the pirates and the whereabouts of the Saudi ship," an unnamed elder in the port told Reuters news agency.

"I saw four cars full of Islamists driving in the town from corner to corner. The Islamists say they will attack the pirates for hijacking a Muslim ship."

Another report suggested local militia and Shebab fighters had arrived in Harardhere in a move to position themselves for a share of any spoils.

"There are many militiamen who have arrived in the town and they want to get a share from the pirates if the ransom is paid," Ahmed Abdullahi, a local elder, was quoted by AFP news agency as saying.

Meanwhile, Kenya reported on Friday that Somali pirates had been paid more than $150m (£101m) in ransoms in the past 12 months.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/7743204.stm

Published: 2008/11/21 22:44:16 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

Who wants to bet that the Saudis have sicced the Islamist on these?

[De Selby]

No one doubts that American military vessels can easily intercept Somali pirates, or that they would be killed by special forces/regular forces/whatever forces with aplomb.

The issue is finding them-it's millions of square miles of ocean, and tons of completely unfriendly and foreign coastline where they won't be easy to spot. 

It is likely to be extremely resource intensive to do anything more than a few spectacular show battles when they happen to be lucky enough to catch pirates in action, is what I'm saying.

[Bigjake]

You're right, why bother  :rolleyes:

It's obviously labor and cost intensive, and therefore we can't justify the expense.

A brand new Big ass Tanker?? for cryin' out loud. That's the the stinking, most awful, stupid joke and you're always pullin' that stinking awful stupid joke. You don't want in this thing, you don't get in this thing. I cut you out of everything. I don't need you. A Saudi Super Tanker  I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck! [/Donald Sutherland/Oddball voice]

[De Selby]

You're right, why bother  :rolleyes:

It's obviously labor and cost intensive, and therefore we can't justify the expense.

A brand new Big ass Tanker?? for cryin' out loud. That's the the stinking, most awful, stupid joke and you're always pullin' that stinking awful stupid joke. You don't want in this thing, you don't get in this thing. I cut you out of everything. I don't need you. A Saudi Super Tanker  I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck! [/Donald Sutherland/Oddball voice]

Yeah, killing one 18 member pirate crew and rescuing one ship is not going to save the next super tanker, even though it needs doing of its own accord.

I'm trying to comment on the bigger picture.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

not our boat  did the saudis ask for help?

[Bigjake]

not our boat  did the saudis ask for help?

Hitler wasn't our problem either, but he ended up effecting us.

[roo_ster]

No one doubts that American military vessels can easily intercept Somali pirates, or that they would be killed by special forces/regular forces/whatever forces with aplomb.

The issue is finding them-it's millions of square miles of ocean, and tons of completely unfriendly and foreign coastline where they won't be easy to spot. 

It is likely to be extremely resource intensive to do anything more than a few spectacular show battles when they happen to be lucky enough to catch pirates in action, is what I'm saying.

A USMC MEU and Navy ESG would have everything needed, less the humint and national-level assets to do the job.  

It would be overkill, but you have a general combo of:
1. A C&C ship to coordinate
2. Helo/Harrier/landing craft carrier for lotsa helo assets
3. Infantry to board and engage
4. Smaller ships to engage the pirates once spotted
5. Enough surface radar to be able to cover the whole area
6. Bigger ships to support when necessary

I would really want some humint and some of our sneakier boys inserted on land, too.

Really, this sort of thing was the Navy & USMC's bread and butter for the first 175 years of the USA's existence.

Keeping the sea lanes free is the obligation of whomever is the big boy on the block.  We were fortunate the Brits did so for us & the rest of the world for such a long time.  Now, it is our turn.

Regional powers ought to be able to handle their own regions, but some places (Africa, Oceana, etc.) have trouble.