I don't understand Obama's glorious new deal...

[Manedwolf]

He's promised to put 2.5 million people to work rebuilding infrastructure. Building roads is the one he mentions most.

Soooo...when someone's white collar professional career is lost because of raised taxes and entitlement programs, their new job can be shoveling asphalt on a road crew?

Why are people cheering this?

[DJJ]

Have you ever read Vonnegut's "Player Piano"? One of the two fallback jobs is "Reeks & Wrecks", or Reconstruction and Reclamation.

[ShelleyB.]

Sounds suspiciously like Hitler's plan also, right down to the road construction.....

Another "option" might be the Civilian National Security Force. So many choices....

[MicroBalrog]

FDR wanted a 'civilian draft' to put millions of people to work building roads.

[Brad Johnson]

FDR wanted a 'civilian draft' to put millions of people to work building roads.

It's the New Deal repackaged.  And we all know what a screaming, unmitigated success that was.

Brad

[Monkeyleg]

It boils down to paying people with taxpayer dollars to do work that doesn't need to be done. Since the taxpayers have to pay for it, they lose money, money which they could put into the real economy to help it get moving faster.

The Great Depression would have ended sooner if it hadn't been for Roosevelt's experiments.

[Manedwolf]

It boils down to paying people with taxpayer dollars to do work that doesn't need to be done.

That's even in the policy.

Second, we will create millions of jobs by making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in the 1950s. We’ll invest your precious tax dollars in new and smarter ways, and we’ll set a simple rule – use it or lose it. If a state doesn’t act quickly to invest in roads and bridges in their communities, they’ll lose the money.

http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/the_key_parts_of_the_jobs_plan/

[Gewehr98]

Reminds me of the CCC.

That's Civilian Conservation Corps, for those not old enough to remember.

White-collar or not, a job's a job when bills are due and there's no food in the fridge...

[Manedwolf]

Reminds me of the CCC.

That's Civilian Conservation Corps, for those not old enough to remember.

White-collar or not, a job's a job when bills are due and there's no food in the fridge...

Except that raising taxes to pay for this will force more people out of those white collar jobs.

[Tallpine]

White-collar or not, a job's a job when bills are due and there's no food in the fridge...

I done everything from falling timber to writing software for aircraft.  It really doesn't matter to me except the latter pays a lot better.

When I was out of work a couple years ago, I did stuff like farming (planting oats and alfalfa), spraying weeds, and some construction.  Tractors are actually more fun to play with than computers. 

[Gewehr98]

It's hard to eat on your principals, MW. 

Remember that, as we head deeper into this recession/depression/Obamanation.

[lupinus]

I think Maneds point is that Oboma is going to cost people their jobs in the first place with his high taxes.

Had he not over taxed the buisness, they wouldn't loose their white collar job, and there'd be no need for a blue collar replacement.

[Marvin Dao]

Soooo...when someone's white collar professional career is lost because of raised taxes and entitlement programs, their new job can be shoveling asphalt on a road crew?

Nope. Some illegal immigrant who actually wants to shovel asphalt on a road crew will have that job. Remember that lots of the illegal immigrants who came to America to build houses are out of jobs and are looking for something to do. If I were the project's HR guy, hiring the white collar guy makes no sense as he'll likely has less experience on a work crew, doesn't speak enough Spanish to communicate with the rest of my crew, and will leave at the first sign of a better job opportunity. Oh yeah, the illegal immigrant also costs less.

A few of those white collar guy will likely be cooped up in a air conditioned building doing environmental impact statements and wrangling with lawsuit related paperwork that comes with public works projects. The rest will have to find jobs elsewhere.

[ronnyreagan]

People will complain when we have to pay to repair the roads, others will complain about how terrible our roads are. Some people will complain no matter what, I suspect Manedwolf is one of them. If someone wants to argue against wasteful spending and pork projects I'm happy to listen, but there is a point where it becomes absurd and most infrastructure is beyond that point in my opinion.

Had he not over taxed the buisness, they wouldn't loose their white collar job, and there'd be no need for a blue collar replacement.

I think we're getting WAY ahead of ourselves with hypotheticals considering he hasn't taken office yet or done anything yet.

[Manedwolf]

People will complain when we have to pay to repair the roads, others will complain about how terrible our roads are. Some people will complain no matter what, I suspect Manedwolf is one of them. If someone wants to argue against wasteful spending and pork projects I'm happy to listen, but there is a point where it becomes absurd and most infrastructure is beyond that point in my opinion.

You think this will REPAIR the roads?

No, this will funnel taxpayer dollars into funds that will be skimmed off of for everything from pet projects to office furniture to some bureaucrat's cousin in a nepotistic appointment.

The roads will have plenty of unionized Official Stand Around And Read The Paper workers, but fixed?

Ha. You want the roads fixed? Throw out the stupid affirmative action preferences, and LET PRIVATE COMPANIES COMPETE TO DO IT.

[Monkeyleg]

My father worked in the CCC and the WPA. Shoveled concrete. Even he admitted that what he was doing didn't really help the country, it just gave people jobs. At that time, though, there weren't racial quotas, so my dad wasn't denied one of those jobs.

Let's face it: if you consider the cost of materials and equipment, it would be less of a drain on the economy to simply give the people money to stay home rather than build more roads and bridges to nowhere.

[AZRedhawk44]

Let's face it: if you consider the cost of materials and equipment, it would be less of a drain on the economy to simply give the people money to stay home rather than build more roads and bridges to nowhere.

Add in the congestion created due to the road construction on an otherwise functional roadway, and you have lost productivity and increased fuel costs on top of it all.

Investing in new High-Tech industries, on the other hand...
-Architects get to design stuff
-CPAs and accountants get to spend money
-Materials engineers get to work
-Construction crews get to work
-IT jockeys get to set up communications systems
-Janitors get to pick up "la basura."
-There's ALWAYS something for the ubiquitous "middle management" to do...
(and I'm sure other groups get covered there, too)

I say we gorge NASA nice and fat, and build a rival public/private agency with the intent to "push" it completely private by 2030, out in New Mexico or California.

See who gets to the moon first, and turns a buck off of it.  And watch all that resultant technology make its way back into the marketplace.

[Gewehr98]

Maybe your dad helped build all the trails and campsites at that huge state park to the west of Milwaukee in Sauk County.   

(I grew up there, and it still amazes me what the CCC accomplished on that land...)

[lupinus]

I think we're getting WAY ahead of ourselves with hypotheticals considering he hasn't taken office yet or done anything yet.

It's getting ahead of yourself to be worried he's going to try and do exactly what he said he wants to do?   

[Jamisjockey]

Given the choice of the .gov throwing money at the banks and detroit, or rebuilding airports, roads, and bridges......I'll take the latter, thank you.  
Also proves the Liberals actually do believe in trickle down economics....  
But seriously.....Ever driven south on I95 through DC?  Or hell, through most midwestern cities during rush hour?  The Freeways of this country are a mess.  Bridges?  Didn't they tell us a bunch are ready to collapse after the Milwaukee deal?
I for one would seriously really dearly rather see our infrastructure rebuilt than the other ides they have on how to rescue the economy.  Bailing out homeowners?  Bailing out WallStreet?  Detroit?? They're the idiots that got us into this mess in the first place!!

[Don't care]

New deal?

Obama doesn't give many details, though I suspect he is attempting to resurrect (after all, he is the Messiah) FDR's NRA.

Of course, SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional, but what does that matter?

[280plus]

Here's a former CCC project I enjoyed but haven't since the kness got old. The picture right at the top of the green open slope represents probably the most surreal part of the whole trail. Interesting history. The original US national ski championships were held here. They had to WALK to the top with all their gear. Two hours to summit, two minutes back down on skis.  :

http://www.berkshirehiking.com/hikes/thunderbolt.html

[Monkeyleg]

Warning: thread veer.

Gewehr98, I was born in Michigan. My dad was born in the UP, but moved to Flint right after marriage. While he was working on the WPA, he talked a lot about science and math (my father was a genius). A guy who had worked on the same WPA project got a job at GM, and told them they should talk to this Baker guy because he was really bright.

Next thing you know, my dad was at GM. Over the next few decades he developed some remarkable projects for them, including the machine language for the navigation systems for the space missions.

[ShelleyB.]

No, this will funnel taxpayer dollars into funds that will be skimmed off of for everything from pet projects to office furniture to some bureaucrat's cousin in a nepotistic appointment.

That's exactly where O's Chicago experience comes in. Sounds exactly like how IDOT operates.

[De Selby]

The idea that Roosevelt prolonged the depression and that his New Deal had nothing to do with bringing the economy out of it is clearly a minority view.

I don't see why we have to pretend that these sorts of programs can't lead to development and growth-they undoubtedly can, and sometimes they do so far better than a straight market system.