Gun Crazy: A World Where College Kids Carry Concealed Weapons

[Waitone]

Our good buds over at Alternet are at it again

http://www.alternet.org/rights/111317/gun_crazy%3A_firearms_proponents_want_a_world_where_college_kids_carry_concealed_weapons/?page=entire

First the bad news: Despite its election day smackdown, the NRA and its pals soldier on in their mission to arm god-fearing Americans in ludicrous places. A flurry of news stories earlier this year reported a pioneering solution proposed to the rash of recent campus shootings: instead of redoubling efforts to enforce the whole "gun-free school zone" thing -- a quaint little notion from, like the 1980s -- why not change the rules to let students bring more guns onto college campuses?

A few answers leapt to mind -- binge drinking, drug use, close living quarters in a high-pressure environment -- but for awhile, it seemed like the idea was catching on. In the wake of the Virginia Tech massacre in April 2007, in which 32 people were killed, several states began considering legislation to expand the right to carry a concealed weapon onto college campuses.

So what's the good news?

The legislation has been a dismal failure.

Despite all the media attention to the fight to extend concealed weapons onto college campuses, this end result has gone underreported. "In 2008, proponents of guns in the classroom have gone zero-for-fifteen with 'guns-on-campus' bills," the Brady Campaign reported this June, "failing in Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Dakota, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Washington. Only two bills are still pending -- in Michigan and Ohio -- and neither has shown any sign of movement in the last two years. Only one state -- Utah -- has ever passed such a law."

The gun lobby is hardly declaring defeat, however. One thing it has to show for its efforts is a new generation of gun activists, who have formed a new group called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. Spawned in the wake of the Virginia Tech killings, the apparently thriving organization is spreading the gun lobby's gospel of "self-defense," and arguing that under the banner of states' rights, students at public colleges and universities should be allowed to carry concealed weapons onto their campuses. "We don't feel that campus is some magical environment," SCC spokesman Michael Guzman told FOX News last year.

Magical or not, colleges have long been "gun free zones" for a simple reason: students should be able to go to school without fear of assault by a deadly weapon. It takes a pretty twisted brand of logic to believe that because horrific massacres sometimes do happen, the solution is to throw more guns at the problem. Yet that's precisely the fear-mongering argument of the pro-gun crowd, which has seized on such tragedies to advance their argument that public places prohibiting guns are intolerably dangerous and that filling them with guns is the best way to make them safer. Virginia Tech, according to this crowd, was just further proof that "gun free zones" -- whether they be schools, churches or bars -- are themselves tragically misdirected.

The term itself has been effectively maligned. Google "gun free zones" and you get hundreds of thousands of links to pages describing them as death zones. They are "reckless, negligent, and known to be dangerous," argues one. "When will those who pushed for gun-free zones realize that they are contributing to tragic situations?" asks another. And, a personal favorite, and delivered without a hint of irony: "An armed society is a polite society."

***

SCCC -- whose website features a link to its Facebook page as well as a section featuring 15 different styles of t-shirts bearing the group's logo (a handgun wearing a graduation cap), in addition to clocks, tote bags, trucker hats a barbeque apron and underwear (the only women's option being a "classic thong") -- is clearly trying to make concealed weapons cool among the college set. And it seems to be working. As of November 29th, the young organization claims to have 35,000 members.

While SCCC describes itself as a grassroots group comprised mostly of students, with no affiliation to the National Rifle Association, the NRA is featured prominently on its (rather dated) news blog, which continues to push McCain/Palin as the clear choice for gun owners. More importantly, it's goal is in lockstep with the NRA's longtime mission of spreading guns to college campuses, providing a response to those who argue that, like its mission to bring guns onto national parks -- one that was quietly rewarded last week -- the NRA has pursued this goal without much consideration for what those who actually live and work on college campuses want.

In Utah, currently the only state that allows concealed weapons on its campuses, the relatively new law was fought by tooth and nail by school administrators like then-president of the University of Utah, who told the Christian Science Monitor in 2002: "Given the unique environment of a college campus, that is not a place for guns." Another professor vowed early retirement if the university if the law was rolled back. "I don't care if it's guns or Darwin or divine intervention," law professor John Flynn said. "The state legislature has no business invading the university's right to manage its own internal affairs."

Exasperated gun enthusiasts like to ridicule the notion that a campus's learning environment might be compromised by the introduction of lethal weapons. As one lobbyist and former Utah politician put it (a bit redundantly), "With a concealed weapon, you don't know it's concealed. The idea of something no one knows about having a chilling effect on the free exchange of ideas just doesn't have a lot of logic."

Not surprisingly, some students disagree. "I feel less safe knowing that a stranger sitting beside me in class may have a gun in his or her backpack," one University of Utah student told CNN earlier this year. Imagine that.

The gun lobby and SCCC also like to draw a distinction between the "bad guys" -- people who bring guns onto campus illegally -- and the "good guys" -- permit-holding gun owners who could save the day if it became necessary. (Supporters of concealed weapons on campus cite the many laws and regulations that will ensure that guns are only in the hands of "good guys.") It's a pretty simplistic way to classify human beings -- and years of murder statistics haven't exactly borne it out.

Most recently, an unprecedented 38-page report has found a connection between weak gun laws and fatal shootings.

"States with lax gun laws had higher rates of handgun killings, fatal shootings of police officers, and sales of weapons that were used in crimes in other states, according to a study underwritten by a group of more than 300 U.S. mayors," reported the Washington Post on Friday.

According to the Post:

"The study is the first of its kind and comes after the mayors and 30 law enforcement organizations successfully lobbied Congress last year to release portions of the ATF data. Public access to the reports had been restricted since the 2003 passage of the 'Tiahrt amendment,' authored by Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.) and drafted with help from the National Rifle Association. Tiahrt said at the time that he was 'fulfilling the needs of my friends who are firearms dealers.'"

***

This summer's pro-gun Supreme Court ruling in DC v. Heller actually addressed the question of firearms on campus in a way that should do no favors to the pro-gun-on-campus crowd. In his majority opinion, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote, "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited."

    "… (N)othing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."

But while Heller's otherwise sweeping implications seemed to fall short of a sanctioning of guns on campus, the ruling nevertheless emboldened the pro-gun crowd, who heralded it as a victory for gun rights. And despite the defeated bills from earlier this year, legislation to allow concealed weapons on campus is being renewed and pushed in at least a dozen states.

For the moment, the gun lobby and SCCC seems to be directing much of its energy to Texas, where the debate is alive and well. (A 62-page "Texas edition" of the SCCC handbook is available on its site.) As recently reported by a Dallas/Ft. Worth media outlet, Texas lawmakers reconvening next month are filing multiple piece of legislation to broaden the state's concealed handgun law. The proposed bills "would allow permit holders to carry their guns on private and public college campuses. For gun rights groups, it's priority number one."

[RaspberrySurprise]

Another bliss-ninny response from the left. Do these people seriously believe that the NRA wants to jam guns into the hands of everybody?

[Ben]

Do these people seriously believe that the NRA wants to jam guns into the hands of everybody?

According to the first sentence in the article, only the "God-fearing" ones who'll hug their guns. The Illiterati all know that guns are 43 times more likely to kill their own owners goldfish, or something like that.

[Standing Wolf]

Cheer up! Such idiocy has sunk all the way into the White House.

[Rudy Kohn]

Reading this article makes me want to grab the author by her lapels, and drone at her, very slowly,

"Guns...in the hands...of law-abiding people...do...not...assault...others."

I'm amazed so many misrepresentations, idiotic arguments, and foolhardy statements could be compressed into such a small space.  So much so that I signed up and posted a comment, since I couldn't find the author's email address anywhere.

[longeyes]

The gun lobby and SCCC also like to draw a distinction between the "bad guys" -- people who bring guns onto campus illegally -- and the "good guys" -- permit-holding gun owners who could save the day if it became necessary. (Supporters of concealed weapons on campus cite the many laws and regulations that will ensure that guns are only in the hands of "good guys.") It's a pretty simplistic way to classify human beings -- and years of murder statistics haven't exactly borne it out.

When in doubt, when confused, dredge up the word "simplistic."  Anything but look at the human realities of the situation.  The American Left has systematically undermined the moral distinctions and social cohesion that used to provide the inhibitions that mitigated the problem.  But no amount of wishful thinking and aversion to reality can change the nature of mankind and the fact that life is a dangerous activity which arms help neutralize.

[Tallpine]

The American Left has systematically undermined the moral distinctions and social cohesion that used to provide the inhibitions that mitigated the problem.  But no amount of wishful thinking and aversion to reality can change the nature of mankind and the fact that life is a dangerous activity which arms help neutralize.

Agreed.  But it's a pretty schizoid way of looking at life: on one hand, everyone is a potential killer and can't be trusted with weapons, but on the other hand, everyone is just fine and there are no dangers ever to worry about  :rolleyes:

I guess I am "paranoid" for thinking that most people can be trusted but a few really are out to get me. 

[longeyes]

I think it's a recognition that a few cause most of the trouble, even in the best of societies, and that trouble we shall always have with us.  Just pragmatism.

[gunsmith]

well, since I'm on facebook anyway, it was really easy to join the group.

[bk425]

And credit for the good work of restoring the ethical right to self defense should go in part to.
http://www.concealedcampus.org
Go hit their paypal button with a few bucks. -Boyd

[Mabs2]

I hate to say this...
But I've seen the videos of college kids on CollegeHumor.com and I've read even more about their shenanigans.

I'd be scared of (most) college kids having guns too.

Now, people at community colleges are different.  I went to one and it was full of level headed and mature (mentally, lots were my age (18 and up)) people there that wouldn't concern me at all knowing they were armed.

I think a lot of the fools are the ones who go through big college just like they did school, but on their parents pocket book.

But then again, there are people like this out in the grown up world too.  Luckily for us they never seem to want to spend the money or go through the trouble of getting a gun, I doubt they'd go through any special trouble just because they're in college.  Though it'd be bad if the bill passed and one of the kids saw it on the news and say "WAT I CAN HAVE GUNS ON CAMPUS NOW" buy one just for the occasion and do something stupid with it.

[Josh Aston]

Though it'd be bad if the bill passed and one of the kids saw it on the news and say "WAT I CAN HAVE GUNS ON CAMPUS NOW" buy one just for the occasion and do something stupid with it.

Then nail his ass to the cross.  It's time America started punishing the actions instead of the objects.

[longeyes]

It's not as simple, of course, as putting guns in everyone's hands.  We need to create a responsible gun culture, and that means a lot of education and probably cooperative social conditions.

[Mabs2]

Yea, I agree, and I never said I was against it.
I'm about as put off by it as I am 16 year olds driving.

[Rudy Kohn]

I hate to say this...
But I've seen the videos of college kids on CollegeHumor.com and I've read even more about their shenanigans.

I'd be scared of (most) college kids having guns too.

Now, people at community colleges are different.  I went to one and it was full of level headed and mature (mentally, lots were my age (18 and up)) people there that wouldn't concern me at all knowing they were armed.

I think a lot of the fools are the ones who go through big college just like they did school, but on their parents pocket book.

But then again, there are people like this out in the grown up world too.  Luckily for us they never seem to want to spend the money or go through the trouble of getting a gun, I doubt they'd go through any special trouble just because they're in college.  Though it'd be bad if the bill passed and one of the kids saw it on the news and say "WAT I CAN HAVE GUNS ON CAMPUS NOW" buy one just for the occasion and do something stupid with it.

This is why SCCC avoids the issues of relaxing licensing requirements, open carry, etc.  It's much easier to make the argument that "some student who already has a CCW is already permitted to carry everywhere else, why would school be a problem?"  That way, you dispel the "arming the students" argument before it can start--what you're doing is not forcibly disarming people, who are recognized by society as a non-issue as far as violent crime goes, in a certain class of places.

[zahc]

I remember talking to some severely lefto English people on a bicycle forum. Even they agreed that it makes no sense for one to be able to carry in a shopping mall, movie theater, or workplace, but not a college campus. There is nothing magical about college campuses.

I also think that the focus on young 'college kids' (which should be a contradiction) and the image of the 18 year old freshperson is a key strategy of the anti-CCW people. I'm a graduate student and I can walk around this building for probably a half-hour before finding anyone under 25. And most of them are more like 50. The focus on young college students makes it sound like the laws only ban young college students from carrying, and not the hundreds of older faculty, graduate students, staff people, and unaffiliated citizens that live, work, jog, and walk their dogs on college campuses every day, who are equally disarmed.

[gunsmith]

everybody assumes 19 year olds will go out packing heat, it's people like me who have had ccw for years, well past 40 years old and do not drink
who are prevented from higher edu because of fascist rules on campus.
Or gals like my friend who works at UNR Reno and had to endure women being raped at gun point and be told "she doesn't need to carry"
even though she was 35 and an employee she fit the profile of the rapist victims.

[BReilley]

(Supporters of concealed weapons on campus cite the many laws and regulations that will ensure that guns are only in the hands of "good guys.")

No, we don't.  Detractors of gun rights cite those laws.  Supporters of concealed weapons cite the endless news reports showing that 99% of those who actually commit violent crimes fail to observe those laws.

I swear, there's no way to even have a voice if the media ignores your position and misrepresents you in the event that you become popular.  Excuse me, "apparently" popular.  What culos.

[Perd Hapley]

(Supporters of concealed weapons on campus cite the many laws and regulations that will ensure that guns are only in the hands of "good guys.")

No, we don't.  Detractors of gun rights cite those laws. 

I've seen a lot of people on our side using that argument. 

[MechAg94]

I thought it was more along the lines of:  we have laws to prevent criminals from just walking into a gun store to buy a gun.  We don't need more restrictive laws or waiting periods. 

[BReilley]

I've seen a lot of people on our side using that argument. 

I could've been clearer on intent there.  I was trying to suggest that most gun-rights advocates don't believe laws will ever stop a "bad person" from doing "bad things", regardless of which "bad thing" is perpetrated, whereas gun-control advocates desire stricter laws because they believe those stricter laws will prevent "bad people" from doing "bad things".

If I may - 179 drunk drivers this past New Year's Eve(including our own Charles Barkley, whose arrest report is worthwhile reading) suggest otherwise.

[Francis Marion]

You want a crazy situation?  Render a group of people defenseless. 
How does campus policy erase the supreme law of the land? 
Don't students want to speak freely, associate freely, and exercise their other treasured liberties on campus?
How can a university campus- the place to study US history- forbid the exercise of historic liberty, the second amendment?
It's easy; people just go along with it, like they did with Jim Crow. 

Well, at least one university has a thriving, on-campus shooting club:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=1127.0

[zahc]

How does campus policy erase the supreme law of the land?
Don't students want to speak freely, associate freely, and exercise their other treasured liberties on campus?
How can a university campus- the place to study US history- forbid the exercise of historic liberty, the second amendment?

Because higher education's supposed embrace of freedom and cultural diversity is clearly, to any thinking person, complete bullshit.