Author Topic: Resampling .mp3 files?  (Read 4374 times)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« on: October 25, 2005, 09:37:22 PM »
iTunes sucks.  It's about as un-intuitive as software gets.  And the manual worthless.  Grrr...

I have a whole bunch of .mp3 on my hard disk.  All of it is recorded at a high bit rate (192kb/s).  Disk space is cheap and sound quality matters to me.

Well, I now have this newfangled iPod gadget, with a very finite 4Gb of storage space.  I wanna shrink music down to a smaller bit rate (say 128kb/s  or 96kb/s) before loading it onto the iPod.  iTunes can't do that.  (At least, I don't think it can.  The manual doesn't indicate anything, and trying to figure out this crapola software by trial and error ain't gonna happen.)

So, can anyone recomend a good (free) piece of software to batch convert .mp3 to a different (smaller) bitrate?

mtnbkr

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 05:45:25 AM »
Can't help you with resampling existing mp3s, but I just learned about MP3Pro files.  They're smaller than standard MP3, but at 96kb/s, sound as good as a CD to my ears.  Musicmatch Jukebox supports this standard (free with many MP3 players).  You might try converting them to that standard if possible.

Chris

lee n. field

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 06:52:34 AM »
Possibly Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net).
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Harold Tuttle

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 07:15:52 AM »
google is your friend:
http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=143464

If you resample the mp3s in itunes it won't delete the original files so try the following:

1: go to preferences in itunes, and under the importing section set the bitrate to what you want to use on the iPod.
2: Highlight the tracks you want to convert and select "convert to mp3/AAC" from the "advanced" menu.
3: once the converted tracks appear in iTunes highlight them and add them to a new playlist.
4: Set the iPod to synch to the new playlist only, or manually copy the converted tracks to the iPod.
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Marnoot

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 07:30:28 AM »
I use DBPowerAmp to do all kinds of conversions. It's the best free utility for doing so I've found. http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm You do have to replace the MP3 codec with one of your own finding before 30 days is up, due to licensing issues.

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 08:14:43 AM »
www.videolan.org
Download VLC.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 09:50:59 AM »
Thanks, I'll give some of these a try.

I've owned other mp3 players in the past.  The others have always had a "Downsample before transferring" box, and a single mouse click was all it took to perform this simple, sensible task.  Dunno why iTunes has to be so reticent.

But maybe one of the utilities y'all have recommended will make is easy to maintain a parallel set of mp3 files for use with the iPod.

Thanks.

jefnvk

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 02:46:32 PM »
I don't mind when someone tells me I should use FireFox over IE.
I don't mind when someone tells me I should use Linux over Windows.
I don't mind when someone tells me I should use MySQL over Access.
I don't mind when someone tells me I should play CS over DOD.

But as soon as someone tells me to use iTunes (or Real Player) over Windows Media, the answer is a flat out NO.
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 03:00:39 PM »
heh...

I can understand not using iTunes or Real Player.  But why on earth would anyone favor Windows Media Player?  It barely does what it's supposed to, and it makes a mockery of your privacy in the process.

Maybe I'm just out of touch with the realities of this kinda software...  Sad

caseydog

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2005, 03:59:58 PM »
MusicMatch will resample ,though it takes the paid version to create MP3 pro files. To batch resample - File>Convert files , in the lower drop down boxes choose MP3 for both and adjust the bitrate slider on the destination side.

Ray
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jefnvk

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2005, 07:19:31 PM »
Honestly, the thing I like about Windows Media is how it lets you browse your collection.  Nothing beyond that, don't even use it for DVD's.
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2005, 08:31:09 AM »
jefnvk...iTunes lets you browse your collection.

Guest

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2005, 06:11:01 PM »
Hmpff... I'm in the process of transferring a buncha CDs to hard drive, which is then gonna be wired to the living room system. I'm trying to avoid compression. I've listened to "CD" and to the highest quality MP3, via Sony, Marantz, Hafler and Magneplanar, and there _is_ a difference.

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2005, 06:23:16 PM »
bogie,
to YOUR ears, on your studio sound system, I'd say so.  For MOST of us, that won't be a huge difficulty.
Those Maggies are da bomb.

btw,
anybody got a good "for dummies" primer on how to do the CD to HDD/mp3 transfer?
May be a breeze, but I'm using the 'complicated procedure' excuse so I can procrastinate. Wink

Thanks,
Fig

Marnoot

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2005, 06:55:42 AM »
Quote from: bogosity
I'm trying to avoid compression.
Look into using FLAC rather than MP3. It's a lossless compression codec. On the positive side, you lose absolutely no sound quality. On the negative side, as a lossless codec it can only shrink a cd's worth of music by about half in file-size; but if the alternative is full CD tracks on the hard drive, this is definitely the way to go. It's the codec I use to backup all my music. I can then use them to listen to the music straight off the PC, as you're planning, burn a full-quality CD, convert them to Mp3s for portable devices, etc. The program I mentioned in post #5 is a good one for doing the conversion to/from FLAC, etc. It will also rip from a CD. All the codec plugins (including MP3, FLAC, MP4, Ogg, etc.) for DBPowerAmp can be found on this page.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2005, 12:41:34 PM »
I'd be skeptical of anyone who says .mp3 can't compete with the original CD.  

One of my friends is an engineer at the local recording studio.  He says that they often record their masters straight to computer file, in the form of high bit rate (320kb/s) .mp3.  Of course, they use the best computer hardware, specifically made for that job.  They also use the best high-dollar software.  Bu nobody has told them that their .mp3 recordings aren't as good as their conventional work.  

Most of the "amateure" .mp3 recordings suck because of the equipment used.  Standard CD-ROM drives simply can't read audio CDs very well.  CD-ROM drives are optimized for reading discs with a filesystem, which audio CDs don't have.  They're also optimized for maximum speed, not maximum accuracy.  

I'll never understand it, but I see it all the time.  People use pricey, top of the line audio systems to play signals they got out of a $10 OEM CD-ROM drive.  It won't sound good no matter what you do to that signal aftwerwards (mp3, flac, whatever...)

Also, most personal users make their .mp3 recordings on crappy software that they downloaded for free.  All of the really good, high quality .mp3 compression engines out there are copyrighted, and dont' come cheap.  The free audio software out there is worth what you pay for it.



I guess my point is that .mp3 IS suitable for audiophile work.  You just have to make sure that your particular set up is up to the task.  Cranking up the bit rate won't get you good quality if you use half-assed hardware and software.

FLAC is good stuff, if you insist on lossless compression.  But if .mp3 doesn't sound good the problem is probably your PC, not your codec.  Switching to FLAC won't solve that problem.

Marnoot

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 02:17:12 PM »
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
Most of the "amateure" .mp3 recordings suck because of the equipment used.  Standard CD-ROM drives simply can't read audio CDs very well.  CD-ROM drives are optimized for reading discs with a filesystem, which audio CDs don't have.  They're also optimized for maximum speed, not maximum accuracy.
Music is stored an a CD in digital format, ones and zeros, and does in fact have a file system (while not in the same sense as a PC FS), that's how tracks are seperated. The cheapest CD-ROM drive you can buy will read off those ones and zeros just as accurately as the most expensive. I will agree with you 100% on the software, a quality codec is paramount to a decent sounding MP3, but on the hardware side of encoding, CD drive choice makes no difference. If a drive could not 100% correctly read the digital data on an audio CD, it would do no better on a data disc.
The only time drive choice would affect quality is if you were ripping the CD by using the drive to play the music straight to your sound card, a practice which just doesn't occur with newer PCs. Ones and zeroes are ones and zeroes, whether it's data or music. Your CD drive doesn't care what the ones and zeroes mean, it just reads them and sends them off to your application. Accuracy is in fact MORE important with data than with audio, as a single wrong bit could cause an entire application to cease functioning, where as with audio, a single incorrect bit would likely create no discernable difference in the music.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2005, 05:02:33 PM »
Standard audio CDs are defined by the "Red Book" standard.  Red Book specifies no filesystem.

An audio CD is divided into tracks, then subdivided into frames.  Each frame represents 1/75th of a second of audio.  Each frame contain 2,352 bytes of data.  All 2.352 bytes are devoted to audio, no positioning data is included (i.e. no filesystem).  This isn't a problem for an audio CD player - it just reads a track straight through from start to finish.  It has no need to jump to precise locations (+/- one bit) on the disc.

Data CDs (ISO-9660 standard) include a filesystem.  Frames are still the same total size, 2,352 bytes, but only 2,048 bytes are data.  The remaining 304 bytes are indexing information that allows the disc reader to skip to an exact location on the disc.  This is necessary because computers must read data in chunks.  (The data busses are shared amonsst the various devices - each device must take turns, using the bus for a brief period).  The positioning info interspersed throughout the data makes this possible.

Rading an audio CD (which lacks positioning data) on a machine that must frequently stop and restart the read operation is problematic.  Wtihout the position idexes mised in, the best a CD-ROM drive can do is guess at where it last read from the disc.  Often times it guesses wrong.   Bits are misread, errors are introduced, and the audio quality suffers.  

These read errors cause sharp transients (clicks and pops and such).  If two non-sequential bits are read as sequential, the audio signal will jump instantly from one level to another without passing through any intermediary levels.

Most software has a crude way of dealing with these errors - it simply filters out any sharp transients.  This eliminate the clicks and pops that the average users find annoying.  But it also gets rid of the fine details that the critical listeners expect to hear.

Quality software can make a world of difference.  A good piece of software has the ability to overcome these limitations effectively.  But these algorithms aren't simple, and they don't come cheap.  Most of the algorithms to do this are copyrighted, and aren't included in any of the free mp3 encoders I've seen.



Any way, the bottom line is that there's a whole lot of technical difficulty involved in getting quality audio off of a CD and into a computer.  Music from a PC is pretty easy to screw up (in an audiophile sense - most typical users would never know the difference).  Condemning .mp3 because one particular listening test sucked doesn't really make sense.  

But if you get the hardware and the software right, .mp3 audio can be higher quality than CD audio.


(Yeah, I'm a real geek.  Tongue )

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2005, 05:16:11 PM »
Quote from: Blackburn
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
Most of the "amateure" .mp3 recordings suck because of the equipment used.  Standard CD-ROM drives simply can't read audio CDs very well.  CD-ROM drives are optimized for reading discs with a filesystem, which audio CDs don't have.  They're also optimized for maximum speed, not maximum accuracy.
rolleyes

My Klipsch 5.1s + sennheiser cans say different.
Don't get your panties in a bunch.  

Most "amateurs" simply throw a CD into the drive and let iTunes or whatever handle all of the details.  Then they play the music out of the cheap speakers that came with the PC.  The audio quality really sucks (due to software and hardware limitations), but on that equipment they'll never notice.

Someone who spends the bucks to buy Klipsch and Sennheiser gear is obviously not one of these amateurs.  So lighten up.  I wasn't questioning your audio manliness.

My point was that you CAN get audiophile quality music out of a PC/mp3 set up.  You just have to be careful how you do it.

That's all...

tyme

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Resampling .mp3 files?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2005, 09:13:01 AM »
Quote
Reading an audio CD (which lacks positioning data) on a machine that must frequently stop and restart the read operation is problematic.  Wtihout the position idexes mised in, the best a CD-ROM drive can do is guess at where it last read from the disc.  Often times it guesses wrong.   Bits are misread, errors are introduced, and the audio quality suffers.

These read errors cause sharp transients (clicks and pops and such).  If two non-sequential bits are read as sequential, the audio signal will jump instantly from one level to another without passing through any intermediary levels.

Most software has a crude way of dealing with these errors - it simply filters out any sharp transients.  This eliminate the clicks and pops that the average users find annoying.  But it also gets rid of the fine details that the critical listeners expect to hear.

Quality software can make a world of difference.  A good piece of software has the ability to overcome these limitations effectively.  But these algorithms aren't simple, and they don't come cheap.
All the known algorithms in the 'verse will not help you reconstruct the audio if the raw data jumps from bit x to bit x+5.  If the hardware doesn't report that there's a gap, the software can't know if there's _supposed_ to be a snap/crackle/pop at that point in the track.  If the hardware does report that there's a gap, don't all modern rippers tell the cdrom drive to back up and re-read a section so that the ripper can match up previously read bits with current bits and know exactly what's new and what's not?  That's the strategy used by the human genome project to assemble the pieces of decoded genes into a complete map.  It works; it just takes a while and isn't terribly efficient if you have the capability to read everything at once, and in sequence.
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