This was uncomfortably close [A rocket fell a block away from me]

[MicroBalrog]

I think the deal is that they won't get them or are not smart enough to get them and put them to use.

Which makes me wonder what sort of Darwinian pressures are going on inside Gaza these past few decades.

80% of these people can't read and write. Pardon me if I'm skeptical of their warfighting ability.

Conversely, they DO seem to be getting larger and larger rockets.

Apparently they have Fajr-5 now. The Army is holding air raid drills in my nephew's school in Tel-Aviv.

[tyme]

At least the Palestinians don't need a rocketry bailout from our government like Flynt does.

[MicroBalrog]

This - also in my town.

[MicroBalrog]

Another rocket fell here today - judging by the sound, rather close. The media reports it fell 'between a school and a kindergarten'.

The post offices adopted 'special hours' of work.

[Tallpine]

Another rocket fell here today

Pretty soon you will be able to collect the whole set.

[Manedwolf]

Pretty soon you will be able to collect the whole set.

If you do, can you trade them in for a cruise missile to fire back?

[roo_ster]

Joe the Plumber is givign your media weenies the media equivalent to a pipe wrench upside the head.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929024&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter


Joe the Plumber is here, and he ain't happy
Jan. 11, 2009
Shelly Paz , THE JERUSALEM POST

Samuel Wurzelbacher of Ohio, aka Joe the Plumber, arrived in Sderot at noon Sunday to show local and foreign reporters how to do it right.

"You should be ashamed of yourself," he told foreign reporters.

"You should be patriotic, protect your family and children, not report like you have been doing for the past two weeks since this war has started," he said.

Wurzelbacher, the man who stole the limelight from Republican presidential candidate John McCain during the American election campaign, has found a new job - as a correspondent for the Internet Web sites PJTV and Pajamas Media.

Armed with a camera and a temporary Government Press Office card, he got a taste of reality in Sderot, visiting a house hit by a Kassam rocket two weeks ago and experiencing a "Code Red" alert first-hand. He also observed and reported from the house where a Kassam landed on Sunday afternoon.

The people of Sderot "can't do normal things day to day," like get soap in their eyes in the shower, for fear a rocket might come in, Wurzelbacher said. "I'm sure they're taking quick showers. I know I would."

He also wondered why Israel waited so long to act. "I know if I were a citizen here, I'd be damned upset." He described himself as a "peaceloving man," but added, "when someone hits me, I'm going to unload on the boy. And if the rest of the world doesn't understand that, then I'm sorry."

Wurzelbacher had already announced that he would arrive in the area for 10 days to cover Operation Cast Lead and to assist in getting out the Israeli side of the story.

"I want the average American Joes to understand the story here from the point of view of someone like them," he told WNWO, a TV channel in his hometown of Toledo, Ohio, before heading here.

During the election campaign, Wurzelbacher (who supported McCain) warned Jewish voters in America that voting for President-elect Barack Obama would be a death blow to Israel, saying, "Obama has offered to sit down with the enemies of Israel."

But in Sderot, he seemed just as intent on teaching a thing or two to the media. "Do you think this is normal, the way you cover this conflict and give away information to your enemy?" he asked the journalists that gathered around him.

"It makes me sick to see the way you behave - you guys need to be protective of your homes, your children, your family."

"I am angry," he said, "and this is why I came here."

[Nitrogen]

I cannot stand Joe the Plumber.
Err, well, ok, I couldn't stand him.  He's on his way to redeeming himself.

[Seenterman]

So Joe the Unlicenced Plumber is now a reporter?

And he is berating imbeded war reporters? Oh yea can I berate rocket scientist for being dumb or doing their job incorrectly because I successfully set off a MkII Bottle Rocket successfully?

Joe thinks the media should ignore anything that doesn't portray Israel in a positive light, isn't the job of the media to get both sides of any giving story?
Cocky new reporter should go try interviewing some Palestinians, and spout off to them like that, it would be fun to see what happens.

Not bashing Israel in anyway, but when reporters purposely only report one side of a story isn't that just propaganda. It would be like Ariana Huffington went to Palestine and said Isreal is slaughtering Plastinians left and right and the poor Palestinians are just trying to defend themselves.

Both sides do horrible things, its a war. To ignore one side is to live blindly.

[Manedwolf]

Cocky new reporter should go try interviewing some Palestinians, and spout off to them like that, it would be fun to see what happens.

Hamas would probably behead him, because they're animalistic and evil savages. We already knew that.

[Scout26]

So Joe the Unlicenced Plumber is now a reporter?

And he is berating imbeded war reporters? Oh yea can I berate rocket scientist for being dumb or doing their job incorrectly because I successfully set off a MkII Bottle Rocket successfully?

Joe thinks the media should ignore anything that doesn't portray Israel in a positive light, isn't the job of the media to get both sides of any giving story?
Cocky new reporter should go try interviewing some Palestinians, and spout off to them like that, it would be fun to see what happens.

Not bashing Israel in anyway, but when reporters purposely only report one side of a story isn't that just propaganda. It would be like Ariana Huffington went to Palestine and said Isreal is slaughtering Plastinians left and right and the poor Palestinians are just trying to defend themselves.

Both sides do horrible things, its a war. To ignore one side is to live blindly.

90% of the coverage I've seen is of the "Oh, the poor Pali's.... Big Meanie Israel is beating up on them again...."

[Seenterman]

As of today 911 Palestinians have died in the conflict so far as apposed to 13 Israelis.

[lupinus]

Perhaps they should think of that figure the next time they think lobbing a few rockets over is a good idea?

Not only is it wrong, it's a war they should know damn well they can't win.

[Manedwolf]

As of today 911 Palestinians have died in the conflict so far as apposed to 13 Israelis.

Then maybe the Palis should rethink firing rockets AT CIVILIAN AREAS ON PURPOSE from the roofs OF THEIR OWN OCCUPIED BUILDINGS.

Would you be happier if they were lobbing WMDs on those rockets? They would if they had them.

[makattak]

As of today 911 Palestinians have died in the conflict so far as apposed to 13 Israelis.

As I cannot respond as well as Thomas Sowell, allow me to cite his current column:

http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2009/01/13/pretty_talk_and_ugly_realities

No phrase represents more of a triumph of hope over experience than the phrase "Middle East peace process." A close second might be the once-fashionable notion that Israel should "trade land for peace."

Since everybody seems to be criticizing Israel for its military response to the rockets being fired into their country from the Gaza strip, let me add my criticisms as well. The Israelis traded land for peace, but they have never gotten the peace, so they should take back the land.

Maybe a couple of generations of Palestinians in Gaza living in peace under Israeli occupation and a couple of generations of the occupation troops squelching the terrorists-- "militants" for those of you who are squeamish-- would set up conditions where the Palestinians would be free to vote on whether they would like to remain occupied or to have their own state-- minus terrorists and their rockets.

Casualty totals alone should be enough to show that the Palestinian people are the biggest losers from the current situation, where the terrorists among them, firing rockets into Israel, can bring devastating retaliatory strikes.

Why don't the Palestinians vote for some representatives who would make a lasting peace with Israel? Because any such candidates would be killed by the terrorists long before election day, so nobody volunteers for that dangerous role.

We don't know what the Palestinians really want-- and won't know as long as they are ruled by Hamas, Hezbollah and the like.

Whatever the benefits of peace for the Palestinian population, what are the terrorists going to do in peacetime? Become librarians and furniture salesmen?

So-called "world opinion" has been a largely negative factor in this situation. Nothing is easier than for people living in peace and safety in Paris or Rome to call for a "cease fire" after the Israelis retaliate against people who are firing rockets into their country.

The time to cease fire was before the rockets were fired.

What do calls for "cease fire" and "negotiations" do? They lower the price of launching attacks. This is true not only in the Middle East but in other parts of the world as well.

During the Vietnam war, when American clergymen were crying out "Stop the bombing!" they paid little attention to the fact that bombing pauses made it easier for North Vietnam to move more ammunition into South Vietnam to kill both South Vietnamese and Americans.

After Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands, if British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher had heeded calls for a "cease fire," that would have simply lowered the price to be paid by the Argentine government for their invasion.

Go back a hundred years-- before there was a United Nations and before "world opinion" was taken into account.

An Argentine invasion of the Falkland Islands at that time would have risked not only a British counter-attack to retake the islands but also British attacks on Argentina itself.

Anywhere in the world, attacks such as those on Israel today would not only have risked retaliation but invasion and annihilation of the government that launched those attacks.

Today, so-called "world opinion" not only limits the price to be paid for aggression or terrorism, it has even led to the self-indulgence of third parties talking pretty talk about limiting the response of those who are attacked to what is "proportionate."

By this reasoning, we should not have declared war on Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor. We should have gone over to Japan, bombed one of their harbors-- and let it go at that.

Does anyone imagine that this would have led to Japan's becoming as peaceful today as it has become after Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Or is the real agenda to engage in moral preening from a safe distance and at somebody else's expense?

Those who think "negotiations" are a magic answer seem not to understand that when A wants to annihilate B, this is not an "issue" that can be resolved amicably around a conference table.

Essentially, we are creating incentives for violence and aggression by spouting "proportional response!"

If governments know when they attack another country, the world will not allow that country to unseat them and take their country, they have a much greater incentive to be aggressive.

By limiting the consequences, we encourage violence.

Brilliant.

[MicroBalrog]

As of today 911 Palestinians have died in the conflict so far as apposed to 13 Israelis.

This is generally because the Army is winning this thing.

I'd rather prefer the Army win than lose, thank you very much.

[Manedwolf]

This is generally because the Army is winning this thing.

I'd rather prefer the Army win than lose, thank you very much.

There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, "To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." -Patton

“The quickest way to end a war is to lose it.” -George Orwell

Why do people keep forgetting that Hamas, by their own words, is genocidal?

[makattak]

Why do people keep forgetting that Hamas, by their own words, is genocidal?

Oh, it's because they don't really MEAN that.

They just want a hug!

You can't hug people with nuclear weapons!

[MicroBalrog]

Why do people keep forgetting that Hamas, by their own words, is genocidal?

Hamas abandoned the goal of destroying Israel two years ago.

[Manedwolf]

Hamas abandoned the goal of destroying Israel two years ago.

Really.

"As far as we're concerned, the issue of recognition of Israel has been settled once and for all. It has been settled in our political literature, in our Islamic thought and in our Jihadist culture, on which we base our moves. Recognition of Israel is out of the question. We have been advocating the establishment of an independent Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital and the return of the refugees. In exchange for all that, we will declare a truce, but no recognition of Israel."

Ismail Haniya, interview with Al-Jazeera, April 2, 2007

[agricola]

Really.

Ismail Haniya, interview with Al-Jazeera, April 2, 2007

In exchange for all that, we will declare a truce, but no recognition of Israel.

This bit does not say "we will destroy Israel" btw. 

[Manedwolf]

That's still rather short of two years.

Shall I find some more recent quotes to satisfy your strange and relentless defense of Hamas?

I guess their breaking the ceasefire and firing rockets at civilians wasn't "word" enough?

[agricola]

That's still rather short of two years.

Shall I find some more recent quotes to satisfy your strange and relentless defense of Hamas?

Sorry, messed up the quote bit first time around. 

As for my "strange and relentless defence of Hamas", its been nothing of the sort.  My opposition to this is because (a) it is entirely self defeating in its aims, (b) the aims that Israel has publicly set itself are utterly impossible to achieve, and (c) the same Israeli government was widely seen as useless when it did almost exactly the same thing to Lebanon.  Add to this the general insanity of a peace process where everyone refuses to deal with one of the democratically elected partners, and you come to the sad place we are at now.

edit:  by the way, Hamas did not break the ceasefire.  Israel did. 

[MicroBalrog]

Why is stopping the rocket fire 'utterly impossible' to achieve?

[agricola]

Why is stopping the rocket fire 'utterly impossible' to achieve?

Because its not just Hamas firing rockets, its IJ and Fatah groups as well.  Secondly the technology level of the rockets, and the mortars which also come over, are so low that it is not that hard for someone to hide some and then pop them off when the IDF declares victory.  This is what Hezbollah did, after all.