Obama closes Gitmo and officially bans torture by Executive Order

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think we need to keep very careful track of them and everytime one of em kills americans we need to hold peoples feet to the fire. maybe vigils outside their home office and church with posters of those killed  i am getting soft in my old age i was originally gonna say outside their kids school as well

[Nitrogen]

Really. Hardened killers from some ickystan.

Well, then I suppose you'd not mind if they had at your family?

False choice fallacy.

I can prove just as effectively (i.e. not effectively at all) that the treatment of prisoners (guilty or not) at Guantanamo will put just as many terrorists in my back yard as releasing all 800 or so prisoners.  That's assuming that they will be released into society, which most of them will not be.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

False choice fallacy.

It's not a fallacy at all.  It's a good point.  If we let these guys out of jail, some of them are gonna attack us again.  Maybe you're ok with that.  I'm not. 

Letting these guys go is a Really Bad Idea.

[Nitrogen]

It's not a fallacy at all.  It's a good point.  If we let these guys out of jail, some of them are gonna attack us again.  Maybe you're ok with that.  I'm not. 

Letting these guys go is a Really Bad Idea.

If they were normal POW's they'd be let go after hostilities ended anyway.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Alright, then let's hold 'em until hostilities are over. 

That's not to say all of these guys are POWs or should be given any such consideration.

[lone_gunman]

Alright, then let's hold 'em until hostilities are over.

The War on Terror will never end.  So they will be held until they die.  That is expensive, and more inhumane than simply executing them.

[Gewehr98]

Ahem.

"Gitmo" aka, Guantanamo Bay existed long before the current holding facility was built there.

It's a U.S. Naval Base base on the very eastern end of Cuba, established in 1903, much to the chagrine of Fidel Castro when he took over.

The new administration has signed paperwork closing the detainee camp, which has taken on the "Gitmo" moniker previously assigned to the entire naval base.

That is all.  

We're not giving up our toehold on Cuba that easily.

[lone_gunman]

Yes you are correct.  I think everyone is aware that Gitmo is a US Naval base, thanks to Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson.  Only the prison is closing.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The War on Terror will never end.  So they will be held until they die. 

That, I believe, is pretty unlikely.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

iirc some of thopse we've already released have "reoffended"

[Josh Aston]

iirc some of thopse we've already released have "reoffended"

Had we just executed them, we wouldn't have to worry about "re-killing" them.

[Lennyjoe]

Put them on a C-17 and lose them out the back somewhere over the atlantic. Seriously though, BHO will regret closing Gitmo. Time will tell but unfortunately someone will die from the hands of one of them Gitmo residents within 2 years of their release.

[lone_gunman]

I don't think any Gitmo detainees are going to be released.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I don't think any Gitmo detainees are going to be released.

Nor do I.  I think they'll be shoe-horned through the criminal courts here, making a mockery of justice in the process.  It's a really dumb thing to do, but we're going to do it anyway, and then we're going to pat ourselves on the back for doing it.

[Lennyjoe]

Not even repatriated to their own country? Some may never be released from custody but the few that have in the past have went right back into their chosen profession.

[MicroBalrog]

Not even repatriated to their own country? Some may never be released from custody but the few that have in the past have went right back into their chosen profession.

Really?

A 100% reoffense rate? Even among those ruled not guilty?

[lone_gunman]

Nor do I.  I think they'll be shoe-horned through the criminal courts here, making a mockery of justice in the process.  It's a really dumb thing to do, but we're going to do it anyway, and then we're going to pat ourselves on the back for doing it.

That is what I think will happen as well, if Gitmo actually closes.  We will try them in US courts, convict them, and give them life sentences in US Prisons.  None will be executed, and none will be released.  Then as you say, we will compliment ourselves on how much more humane we are now that Obama is our president.  France and Germany will be happy.  The terrorists will get worse treatment in federal prison than they were getting at Gitmo.  A fair number will get killed by their cell mates.

[anygunanywhere]

Seriously though, BHO will regret closing Gitmo.

Literally or figuratively?

I doubt seriously if BHO will ever regret anything he does.

Other individuals will regret the closing, but not BHO.

Anygunanywhere

[buzz_knox]

That is what I think will happen as well, if Gitmo actually closes.  We will try them in US courts, convict them, and give them life sentences in US Prisons.  None will be executed, and none will be released.  Then as you say, we will compliment ourselves on how much more humane we are now that Obama is our president.  France and Germany will be happy.  The terrorists will get worse treatment in federal prison than they were getting at Gitmo.  A fair number will get killed by their cell mates.

Some will be killed.  But some will be treated as heroes, and many will have the opportunity to convert others to the cause.

Prisons have long been called finishing schools for criminals.  You'll be able to add "domestic terrorists" to that soon enough.

[ronnyreagan]

How many of you would be considered a terrorist suspect with evidence like this: "The evidence against 39% of the detainees rests in part on the possession of a Kalashnikov rifle."? 

[MicroBalrog]

None will be executed, and none will be released

There are some people in Gitmo already known to be innocent.

[Nick1911]

There are some people in Gitmo already known to be innocent.

Source, please?

[Nitrogen]

Source, please?

I think he means people already found innocent (through "trials") and scheduled released except the bureaucrats gummed up the works.

I'd welcome other information though :)

[Lennyjoe]

Hmmp, I don't recall saying anything about 100 percent of anything.

[AJ Dual]

I don't think any Gitmo detainees are going to be released.

I agree. Or a few low-risk/low value detainees are going to get shuffled to other countries. A few others will get the "constitutional" civilian stateside show-trials. Net result, either Gitmo will remain open indefinately due to "unforseen problems", or Gitmo will just get distributed and broken up into other centers that are essentialy the same, and the liberal establishment/MSM will direct it's attention elsewhere.

Beyond the pro-forma placation of the beeding-heart Amnesty International types who find it easier to engage a relatively honest and humane country like America, than the real despots of the world, the reality of being a captured stateless non-uniformed combatant in AWOT will not change much over the next four years.

Or, it'll be worse as our military and intelligence services look for other avenues to detain and interrogate terrorists. Such as increased use of leaving them with our "allies" who have no standard of humane treatment whatsoever. Or simply searching for "plausible denial", and it happens completely anonomyously in the field. Field telophone, testicles, and an unmarked grave...

Gitmo is going to look like heaven in comparison. Both for what will really happen to terrorists and "people of interest/suspicion", and for what America will become now that there's incentive to detain and interrogate "off the books".