Cartels in Mexico's Drug War Get Guns From US

[longeyes]

Manedwolf,

Usually we agree, so I am a bit surprised to see you supporting the "war on drugs."  For the record I do not support the abuse of anything, including intoxicants, but I believe the answer to that and just about all problems lies in self-control, responsibility, education, and a focus on the kind of tough-minded honoring of individual liberty that has been synonymous with this nation's deepest beliefs.  We must not be afraid of who we are.  You're right, the hard stuff can make you do ugly and crazy things, but better the isolated rampaging doper than a marauding pack of ruthless and venal killers; better the occasional berserker than a predatory state.  This is always the argument, isn't it?  That one "wild" person disqualifies everyone else, no matter how self-controlled, from exercising their rights?  And, let me add, you will never succeed in banning "altered states," because they are an intimately entwined with not only human deliquency but higher human aspirations.  A wise society will use wisely; a corrupted polity will use badly.

[longeyes]

Their argument is that we are corrupting Mexico, is it not?

Our freedom to own firearms is corrupting what would otherwise be a peaceful, lawful state?

If that isn't the worst sort of cultural blindness, hypocrisy, and self-rationalization I don't know what is. 

We will never get drug abuse under control when it becomes an integral part of ours and others' economies on such a vast scale as it is today.

Take the money out of it--that's a start.

Then we can begin to take the money out of our own national indebtedness...

[Boomhauer]

Which is why there are no AK's, AR's or 9mm handguns at all in mexico?

Who even makes a .38 super besides Colt?  It's a boutique weapon as far as I can tell.

You know that I mean legal for law abiding citizens to own.

 

[K Frame]

Unless our government is giving the cartels the guns, I don't see how this is even remotely politics.

Moving to Round Table.

[Viking]

Right, I'm sure they bought their grenades in the US where they're far easier to get.  :rolleyes:

Got any links? I need to stock up on grenades, assault rifles, flamethrowers and napalm. It's obvious that they would just dump it into a crate and send it right to my door too, right? After all, everyone knows there aren't any gun laws in the US :rolleyes:.

[Josh Aston]

Got any links? I need to stock up on grenades, assault rifles, flamethrowers and napalm. It's obvious that they would just dump it into a crate and send it right to my door too, right? After all, everyone knows there aren't any gun laws in the US :rolleyes:.

Dude, you can order it off the internetz, didn't you know that? 

[jackdanson]

After all, everyone knows there aren't any gun laws in the US

Exactly, like these 2 guys that were talking on my job.  They were saying how anyone can just go to a gun show and get rpgs, grenades, and such.  I aked them the last gun show they went to... answer.. "uhh never"... so I state that in the many gun shows I've been to I've never seen anything close to what they were talking about... they said I "didn't know the right people".. uh huh.

Got any links? I need to stock up on grenades, assault rifles, flamethrowers and napalm.

Actually, I think flamethrowers are legal on the federal level, if you can find or build one.

Back to OP, I'm guessing it is much easier to get weapons from the corrupt mexican military than to buy them and sneak them across the border.  BS reporting as usual.

[Viking]

Dude, you can order it off the internetz, didn't you know that? 

I have yet to find any shops willing to ship overseas in an unmarked crate. Obviously they haven't heard about you guys not having any gun laws.

[MicroBalrog]

Actually, I think flamethrowers are legal on the federal level, if you can find or build one.

\
Indeed that is correct - flamethrowers are not legally a firearm, so they're not regulated even on the same level as a pistol would be.

[Jamisjockey]

\
Indeed that is correct - flamethrowers are not legally a firearm, so they're not regulated even on the same level as a pistol would be.

I think I would have a letter from the BATFE in hand before owning a flamethrower.

[MicroBalrog]

I think I would have a letter from the BATFE in hand before owning a flamethrower.

Can't give you that.

This might turn out to be informative, though.

[slugcatcher]

Kimber, Springfield Armory, Tanfoglio, Astra, Llama, Star, Taurus, Les Baer and others I am forgetting.

Sig does as well.

[Jamisjockey]

Can't give you that.

This might turn out to be informative, though.

When Deputy Cleetus arrests me for playing with my flamethrower at the local shooting hole, I'd rather have a signed letter from the BATFE on official stationary than an NFA FAQ printed from a college website.
These days its arrest first, hide the evidence of your being innocent later.

[jackdanson]

When Deputy Cleetus arrests me for playing with my flamethrower at the local shooting hole, I'd rather have a signed letter from the BATFE on official stationary than an NFA FAQ printed from a college website.
These days its arrest first, hide the evidence of your being innocent later.

+1 on that.

A friend of mine built a "paintball flamethrower" for a paintball game... it flung paint about 50 feet and worked of the same principle as a normal flamethrower.  We considered putting a pilot light and "napalm" in it just for fun, but it wasn't worth the potential legal and safety hazards.

[Balog]

A lot of totally unlicensed flamethrowers at Knob Creek each year. Not to mention the kid from Something Awful forums who built his own.

[Viking]

A lot of totally unlicensed flamethrowers at Knob Creek each year. Not to mention the kid from Something Awful forums who built his own.

I remember that one. Most awesome ever. Now I want to build one .

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Back to OP, I'm guessing it is much easier to get weapons from the corrupt mexican military than to buy them and sneak them across the border.  BS reporting as usual.

Well, they have drugs, we have what is probably the world's largest supply of guns. Maybe they don't want to contribute to our trade deficit. 

I figure Mexico is lying through its teeth regarding the percentage of weapons stolen (or 'lost) from their .gov armories versus the ones they get from El Norte. They seem to be doing everything they can to foist the blame off on the gringos, as opposed to their own deep and abiding failings. America is their Fistful.

[stevelyn]

I call BS to the article. Why in the hell would the cartels come to the US to get overpriced semi-auto guns when every banana republic south of the border is willing to sell them what ever they want in full military dress just so they can destabilize the US?  They sure as $^!t didn't get the grenades here. I seriously doubt the guns are from here either.

The reporter wrote an article with false facts in it to gin up anti-gun sentiment.

[erictank]

I call BS to the article. Why in the hell would the cartels come to the US to get overpriced semi-auto guns when every banana republic south of the border is willing to sell them what ever they want in full military dress just so they can destabilize the US?  They sure as $^!t didn't get the grenades here. I seriously doubt the guns are from here either.

The reporter wrote an article with false facts in it to gin up anti-gun sentiment.

Over on one of the Yahoo gun boards, there's a guy (insert your own, less-complimentary phrase as a substitute for "guy") who INSISTS that the cartels' use of FN select-fire P-90s and semi-auto 5Sevens, with the real-deal AP ammo, is entirely the fault of the "lax gun laws" in the United States.  He blithely ignores the fact that civvies can't get the SS190 (standard-duty AP) ammo here, and that the P-90 and 5Seven are issue weapons for elements of the Mexican military (or that the P-90 is not available for civilian sale and that the semi-auto-only PS-90 and 5Seven are $1600+ and $1000+ rarities, respectively, here in the US), even when said documented facts are pointed out to him.

He also insists that the presence in Sinaloa-cartel hands of some seven semi-auto Kalashnikov rifles originally sold in Phoenix (no mention of HOW LONG AGO they were sold in Phoenix...) proves that the US gun market is stocking the Mexican drug cartels with their firearms, C4, and grenades (pointing out the governmental limitations of sale of military explosives like C4 and grenades to him is as futile as pointing out that Mexican drug lords using cartridges not available for sale to US civilians cannot be an indicator that our "lax gun laws" are the problem).  Don't EVEN get him started on how it's wrong to demand that the Mexicans work on border porosity from their end, either - apparently it's evil and totally wrong for us to allow the Iron River of evilnastybaduglyGUNNNZZZZ11!!!!1!one! to flow INTO Mexico, but there's absolutely no problem at all with with sending hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants across that same border in the other direction. 

Yeah, reason and logic and fact don't seem to be stock-in-trade for many of our opponents in the victim-disarmament discussion. :rolleyes:

[Boomhauer]

Yeah, reason and logic and fact don't seem to be stock-in-trade for many of our opponents in the victim-disarmament discussion

Why bother with logic and fact when you can pass off emotions, opinions, and lies as truth? It's easier than doing actual research...

[Marnoot]

Over on one of the Yahoo gun boards, there's a guy (insert your own, less-complimentary phrase as a substitute for "guy") who INSISTS that the cartels' use of FN select-fire P-90s and semi-auto 5Sevens, with the real-deal AP ammo, is entirely the fault of the "lax gun laws" in the United States.  He blithely ignores the fact that civvies can't get the SS190 (standard-duty AP) ammo here, and that the P-90 and 5Seven are issue weapons for elements of the Mexican military (or that the P-90 is not available for civilian sale and that the semi-auto-only PS-90 and 5Seven are $1600+ and $1000+ rarities, respectively, here in the US), even when said documented facts are pointed out to him.

He also insists that the presence in Sinaloa-cartel hands of some seven semi-auto Kalashnikov rifles originally sold in Phoenix (no mention of HOW LONG AGO they were sold in Phoenix...) proves that the US gun market is stocking the Mexican drug cartels with their firearms, C4, and grenades (pointing out the governmental limitations of sale of military explosives like C4 and grenades to him is as futile as pointing out that Mexican drug lords using cartridges not available for sale to US civilians cannot be an indicator that our "lax gun laws" are the problem).  Don't EVEN get him started on how it's wrong to demand that the Mexicans work on border porosity from their end, either - apparently it's evil and totally wrong for us to allow the Iron River of evilnastybaduglyGUNNNZZZZ11!!!!1!one! to flow INTO Mexico, but there's absolutely no problem at all with with sending hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants across that same border in the other direction. 

Yeah, reason and logic and fact don't seem to be stock-in-trade for many of our opponents in the victim-disarmament discussion. :rolleyes:

He sounds like a well-fed troll.

[S. Williamson]

Ever seen a guy with an AK47 rampaging? 
Your arugment is invalid and exactly the same that the antis use in their plan to disarm us.

You've obviously never been the victim of "trigger slap" from a SAR-1. 

[Jamisjockey]

You've obviously never been the victim of "trigger slap" from a SAR-1. 

I mean it figuratively. 

[Matthew Carberry]

Meth became a larger problem as other drugs got a notional amount more expensive and marginally harder to get.

Why pay for imported coke/crack when you can cook up meth in your own kitchen?

The War on Drugs, in what minimal successes it can claim, is directly responsible for the recent increase in meth use; much as heavy policing in one physical area or type of crime simply transfers that crime to other areas or fields, it doesn't reduce the total volume.

Let the potential addicts get their heroin, coke and weed safely and more cheaply and meth use will decrease.  Even the people who use have to be saying they'd like a less nasty way to get high.

Remove the illegality and use will not go up among the population but the violence, which is both directly and indirectly tied to criminalization, will decrease dramatically.

[buzz_knox]

A lot of totally unlicensed flamethrowers at Knob Creek each year. Not to mention the kid from Something Awful forums who built his own.

Flamethrowers are one thing.  Weapons that project flaming objects are another and I think the ATF has said that they may be considered as destructive devices.