Author Topic: Who says the Evil Empire is dead?  (Read 1923 times)

Preacherman

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« on: November 17, 2005, 08:07:10 AM »
From the New York Sun (http://www.nysun.com/article/23082):

November 16, 2005

Korean Reds Targeting Christians

By MEGHAN CLYNE - Staff Reporter of the Sun

WASHINGTON - A woman in her 20s executed by a firing squad after being caught with a Bible. Five Christian church leaders punished by being run over by a steamroller before a crowd of spectators who "cried, screamed out, or fainted when the skulls made a popping sound as they were crushed."

These and other "horrifying" violations of human rights and religious freedom in North Korea are reported in a new study by the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, titled "'Thank You, Father Kim Il Sung': Eyewitness Accounts of Severe Violations of Freedom of Thought, Conscience, and Religion in North Korea."

The report, released yesterday, comes as President Bush is touring Asia, calling for increased political freedom. In remarks prepared for delivery early this morning in Japan, the president called on Red China to extend more freedom to its population of 1.3 billion. In an advance text of the speech, President Bush also extolled Taiwan, which Beijing considers a renegade province, as "a free and democratic Chinese society." And the president noted North Korean human rights abuses while reassuring the Hermit Kingdom's people.

"Satellite maps of North Korea show prison camps the size of whole cities," Mr. Bush said. "We will not forget the people of North Korea."

Yesterday on Capitol Hill the chairman of the Commission on International Religious Freedom, Michael Cromartie, and two members of Congress who helped establish the commission, Reps. Frank Wolf of Virginia and Chris Smith of New Jersey, called on Mr. Bush to include the specific findings of the North Korean report in his diplomatic discussions with Chinese and South Korean officials this week, and to urge leaders of both Asian nations to take a firmer stand against their communist neighbor.

Mr. Cromartie told The New York Sun after the event that senior administration officials at the National Security Council had been provided with an advance copy of the report so that Mr. Bush could raise particular human rights abuses with his Chinese and South Korean interlocutors.

Mr. Cromartie said yesterday during the study's unveiling on Capitol Hill that the report was unique in its depth and breadth, and in the quantity of first-hand accounts, since it is notoriously difficult to obtain reliable information from inside North Korea, owing to the country's complete isolation under the Kim dictatorship.

Among the first-hand reports are eyewitness accounts of Christians' being executed for the underground practice of their faith.

The study recounts, for example, how in November 1996 in North Korea's South Pyongan province, a unit of the North Korean army was tasked with widening a highway connecting Pyongyang to a nearby port city. While demolishing a vacant house, soldiers found in the basement, hidden between two bricks, a Bible and a list of 25 names. Among the list were individuals identified as a Christian pastor, two assistant pastors, two elders, and 20 parishioners who were identified by their occupations.

Hunted down at their workplaces by military police, the 25 Christians were rounded up and detained without any formal judicial procedure. Later that month, the parishioners and their clergy were brought to the road construction site, where spectators had been arranged in neat rows to observe the public execution of the pastor, assistant pastors, and elders. According to a report based on an eyewitness account, the five church leaders "were bound hand and foot and made to lie down in front of a steamroller," accused of subversion and of being Kiddokyo, or Protestant Christian, spies.

The 20 parishioners were detained near their clergy, and watched, along with the assembled audience, as the five Christian leaders were told they could escape death if they denied their faith and pledged to serve only Kim Jong Il and his father, the first dictator of communist Korea, Kim Il Sung. According to the eyewitness, the clergy remained silent.

For their steadfast belief, the Christians were executed. According to the report, "Some of the fellow parishioners assembled to watch the execution cried, screamed out, or fainted when the skulls made a popping sound as they were crushed beneath the steamroller."

Another account contained in the report says that on a summer day in North Korea in 1997, a young woman was washing clothes in a tributary of the Tumen River when she dropped a small Bible she had hidden amid the laundry. Spotted by a fellow washerwoman, the girl was reported to North Korean authorities on the suspicion that she was engaging in an exercise of thought or religion condemned by the state. The girl, believed to be in her 20s, and her father, estimated to be around 60, were arrested by local national security police and imprisoned for three months.

One morning, they were taken to a public market area, where, after a brief show trial, the father and daughter were condemned as traitors to the North Korean nation and its communist dictator, Kim Jong Il. The father and daughter were then tied to stakes a few meters from where they had been "tried," and, before an assembly of schoolchildren, were riddled with bullets by seven policemen who fired three shots each into the pair. According to a report drawn from eyewitness accounts, "The force of the rifle shots, fired from fifteen meters away, caused blood and brain matter to be blown out of their heads."

The study was compiled by the author of "Hidden Gulag: Exposing North Korea's Prison Camps," David Hawk, who was assisted by two South Korean researchers, Jae Chunwon and Philo Kim. Together they interviewed 40 re cent North Korean defectors to gain insight into the religious lives of average North Koreans.

From the interviews, according to Mr. Cromartie, the Commission had obtained a "horrifying picture" of the abuses suffered by Christians and other believers in North Korea.

All of the interviewees had fled to South Korea through China, which has become something of a "safety valve" for North Koreans fleeing religious persecution, Mr. Smith told the Sun yesterday. According to the study, China has received a flood of refugees fleeing the Kim dictatorship, and between 50,000 and 100,000 North Korean exiles remain in China, the commission reported.

China, however, considers dissident North Koreans "economic migrants" subject to repatriation, and the study presents a dismal account of those forced to return to North Korea. According to one defector who was grilled by North Korean border guards, the Kim regime fears that "Juche will be toppled by Christianity," referring to the state ideology, and exercises brutal control over North Koreans who have been exposed to Chinese or South Korean Christian churches.

According to the study, in order to preserve the complete control Kim Jong Il exercises over his subjects' minds, repatriated North Koreans are harshly interrogated to determine whether they will infect their countrymen with ideas and information obtained abroad, and Christian believers are often slapped with long prison sentences and hard labor, punishments sometimes passed on to their families and descendants.

The documented fear of Christianity is accompanied by an extensive account of the pervasiveness of the Kims' cult of personality, and the title of the study, "Thank you, Father Kim Il-Sung," refers to the phrase North Korean parents are required to first teach their children.
Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional!

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Waitone

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2005, 08:22:12 AM »
Sickening
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

grampster

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2005, 08:45:27 AM »
There is no evil in the world.  What are you trying to feed us.  All we need to do is sit down and have a gentle conversation with Father Kim and he will be reasonable and grant relief.  Besides, these are all lies told by W to get us in a war with the PRK.  Go into any University and speak with any Professor of Diversity (or a Left Wing politician) and you will be set free from your delusion that there are bad people.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

matis

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2005, 10:48:22 AM »
Quote from: grampster
There is no evil in the world.  What are you trying to feed us.  All we need to do is sit down and have a gentle conversation with Father Kim and he will be reasonable and grant relief.  Besides, these are all lies told by W to get us in a war with the PRK.  Go into any University and speak with any Professor of Diversity (or a Left Wing politician) and you will be set free from your delusion that there are bad people.
Exactly!

Saved me any writing.



matis
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

TarpleyG

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2005, 11:34:08 AM »
If we pick a fight with N. Korea, it'll make the conflict in Iraq look like a fight at a hockey game.  The American sheeple have not the stomach for that sort of engagement.  Let them be, I say.

Greg

grampster

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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2005, 11:44:20 AM »
If were worried about N. Korea's nukes,  a few well placed B52 wall to wall carpet installations would eliminate that situation along with a warning to not mass troops along the border of S. Korea.  That warning should come after the removal of the insallations.  The removal of the nuke facilities should come with no warning, whatsoever.  N. Korea could not feed an army on campaign anymore anyway.

America is the last remaining super power.  We should remain so and eliminate any threat to that reality.  Our status hands us certain de facto responsibilities when it comes to WMD's.  Nuclear war capability should never be allowed to exist in countries run by unstable tin pot dictators that believe they are gods.  Pakistan and India should be sent messages simultaneous to the removals congratulating them on being good neighbors with each other and to keep up the good work.

  I think we should encourage Israel to obtain the best info they can regarding where Iran's facilities are and let us take them out as well.  We'll get accused of doing it anyway so, as my father always said, if you want a job done right, do it yourself.  Our air power is 2nd to none.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Standing Wolf

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2005, 12:08:22 PM »
Quote
If were worried about N. Korea's nukes,  a few well placed B52 wall to wall carpet installations would eliminate that situation along with a warning to not mass troops along the border of S. Korea.  That warning should come after the removal of the insallations.  The removal of the nuke facilities should come with no warning, whatsoever.  N. Korea could not feed an army on campaign anymore anyway.
If that's a motion, please consider it seconded.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

matis

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2005, 04:44:09 PM »
Quote from: grampster
America is the last remaining super power.  We should remain so and eliminate any threat to that reality.  Our status hands us certain de facto responsibilities when it comes to WMD's.  Nuclear war capability should never be allowed to exist in countries run by unstable tin pot dictators that believe they are gods.  Pakistan and India should be sent messages simultaneous to the removals congratulating them on being good neighbors with each other and to keep up the good work.

  I think we should encourage Israel to obtain the best info they can regarding where Iran's facilities are and let us take them out as well.  We'll get accused of doing it anyway so, as my father always said, if you want a job done right, do it yourself.  Our air power is 2nd to none.
Grampster!  Exactly times two!



2nd time in one thread.  You saved me writing.


But don't go lookin' at me -- you're the one whose saying it like it is.





matis
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

grampster

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2005, 05:13:57 PM »
I have a problem that way from time to time.  I am a peaceful man and believe talking things through is preferred.  I am also not unaware of history and the machinations of mankind in their relationships with each other and how some gain a lot of power over many of their peers.  I believe evil walks the earth.  If my belief is correct in that regard, then talking will avail nothing at the end of the day.

Teddy Roosevelt said it best..."Speak softly and carry a big stick."  The implication of that statement is that sometimes the stick must be applied whether or not one desires to.

That implication is lost on some folks.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Stand_watie

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2005, 05:26:35 PM »
I saw a recent documentary by a BBC reporter on (I think) the Discovery (maybe one of the history) channel (s).

The fate of the Christians mentioned in that article is literally quite a pleasant way to die compared to the fate of some of the people accused of being political dissidents by Kim Il.

If I recall correctly, the particular documentary that I watched focused on the fate of the hundreds of thousands of small children orphaned by Il's purges. Tiny children living on the street literally crawling on the ground underneath tables picking up food crumbs dropped by people eating...

If I thought it could be limited to the extinction of vermin that approached the evil of people like Kim Jong Il, I would cheerfully support the US taking up the policy of assassinating foreign leaders.

Sometimes I think that atheists must have more faith than the rest of us - the belief that people like that may die in the lap of luxury and won't have to answer for their evil would be too much for me to believe.

Quote from: Hebrews 9
27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment
Quote from: Ecclesiastes 12
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil
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Stand_watie

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2005, 05:44:54 PM »
Quote
Teddy Roosevelt said it best..."Speak softly and carry a big stick."
Major tangent here, but he's one of my heroes. A genuine American badass. One of the last of the cowboys, and that's with being born in New York city.

The guy used to go wolf hunting with the last Texas Comanche war chief, Quanah Parker, a former beligerent to the U.S. - and if that's not taking your life into your hands, or trusting your friend, I don't know what it is. Probably gave his secret service agents fits.

Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"

Standing Wolf

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2005, 07:06:18 PM »
Quote
Sometimes I think that atheists must have more faith than the rest of us - the belief that people like that may die in the lap of luxury and won't have to answer for their evil would be too much for me to believe.
Speaking strictly as a lifelong atheist: good people sometimes suffer and die wretched deaths at the hands of evil people, and sometimes the evil people get away with it. I have faith that if enough good people get sufficiently outraged about it, we can square up matters without recourse to divine intervention.

It's not, for example, too late in the game to bring that Castro creature to justice. We could hold Saudi Arabia accountable for its role in the attacks against America of September 11, 2001. We could seize North Korea by the neck, delete its dictator, and shove representative government and clearly defined civil rights down its throat. Heck, we could even shame the victim disarmament crowd into sitting down and shutting up.

There's no telling what we could accomplish if we'd just quit putting our faith in Republicrats and Democans, and take action.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

280plus

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Who says the Evil Empire is dead?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2005, 03:24:17 AM »
:sigh: Lovely world we live in...
Avoid cliches like the plague!