Author Topic: How we will lose 2nd Amendment incorporation and our rights.thanks New Yorkers  (Read 5844 times)

gunsmith

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Maloney V Rice is the "nunchuck case" that lost 2A incorporation in the second circuit.
Some Obama contributing firm from Chicago ( Kirkland)
which already proved its incompetence
is trying for cert in SCOTUS.


http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-guns-chukas-and-the-states/#more-9302
Quote
On June 26, with the aim of a pro bono Washington lawyer, Jeffrey Bossert Clark, Maloney expects to file for Supreme Court review of his Second Amendment claim.  (On Monday, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg set that date for the filing.  She acted on an application [Maloney v. Rice, 08A907] seeking more time to file and laying out the issue to be raised. The application, along with the Second Circuit Court ruling at issue, can be read here.)

I first started becoming aware of these creeps here
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=151861&highlight=Maloney

I believe this loon is anti gun and is looking to lose on purpose, undoing all the hard work in getting 9th circuit incorporation.
The anti's are helping this guy, knowing he will lose.
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Matthew Carberry

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That's an exactly wrong read on what this case does.

There are two separable issues in this case.  One is incorporation, the other is whether nunchaka count as "arms".

Per Eugene Volokh and the legal minds at Volokh Conspiracy it is likely the Supremes would affirm incorporation but remand on whether nunchaku are "arms" under Heller. 

It didn't "lose incorporation", the 2nd Circuit merely ruled that Presser still stood.  This sets up exactly the inter-circuit controversy we need to have the USSC rule.

Right now we have the 9th saying Incorporated and that Presser was wrong, and their (convoluted but clever) reasoning hands the Supremes a way to set aside Presser and avoid stare decisis.  Given the depth of their Heller ruling that's a hole the Supremes will walk right on through.  Also remember the panel that wrote Nordyke was headed by a Clinton appointee, it wasn't a "right-wing" decision.

Regardless of how well or sincerely this guy's counsel does in presentation, the Supremes can pull any ruling they can justify out of the argument.  His attorney can simply say "2nd is Incorporated", which is the guy's argument, and rest his case.  It doesn't matter what the State of NY says at that point.  If the Supremes want Incorp (which I think they do) they can then say, "Yep, via x, y and z, Plaintiff is correct, 2nd is incorporated, remand for determination of whether nunchaku are "arms" under the 2nd".

Also remember that prior to this case hitting the USSC there is one in the 7th awaiting a decision that could also support Incorporation.  That would create a "majority" of post-Heller decisions on the topic that the Supremes could cite to simply ratify nationwide.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 03:08:54 PM by carebear »
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gunsmith

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ok, maybe I am a little shrill  sky is falling, but I do not trust Ginsburg even a little.
I would rather have the calguns superstar legal team handling a SCOTUS gun case plus
I like chuks a lot and these jerks can lose guns and chuks, I don't want them near scotus
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

CNYCacher

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You got me.  I wanted to keep my ID a secret, but that's me!  Don't worry guys, I'll get the 2A back before you know it!
yiiiiiYAAAAA!!!!!
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Matthew Carberry

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ok, maybe I am a little shrill  sky is falling, but I do not trust Ginsburg even a little.
I would rather have the calguns superstar legal team handling a SCOTUS gun case plus
I like chuks a lot and these jerks can lose guns and chuks, I don't want them near scotus

And I was out of line with the "totally wrong" line.

All Ginsburg is doing is making sure it can come before the Court.  If she didn't, someone else would have. It will still be ruled on by all the Justices.

I think we're okay.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

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MicroBalrog

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Quote
Regardless of how well or sincerely this guy's counsel does in presentation, the Supremes can pull any ruling they can justify out of the argument.

This.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Perd Hapley

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That.
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
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MicroBalrog

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Look. There are hundreds of thousands of reasonable, we-need-to-wait-for-a-perfect-case guys out there. One assumes that all these guys are reasonable, clean citizens, each of whom could have provided a 'perfect case' by just volunteering himself for the cause. Yet none of them do it.

It falls to Free State Project members and guys like this Mr. Maloney to do it, or it won't be done.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Perd Hapley

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Those.
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
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Jamisjockey

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Seriously, fisty.
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Perd Hapley

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Seriously what? 

Ya know, Microbalrog, if the sort of folks that appeal to you are so effective in the court-room, they might wish to take a hint from that.  It's not surprising that more idealistic-but-odd people are good at winning cases, bad at winning popular support (elections). 

And I bet they even wear ties in court.  :) 
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
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gunsmith

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Look. There are hundreds of thousands of reasonable, we-need-to-wait-for-a-perfect-case guys out there. One assumes that all these guys are reasonable, clean citizens, each of whom could have provided a 'perfect case' by just volunteering himself for the cause. Yet none of them do it.

It falls to Free State Project members and guys like this Mr. Maloney to do it, or it won't be done.

If Maloney could "do it" I would stand and applaud, he can not "do it" he was offered help by the legal team that got incorporation in the 9th Circuit, he refused and got the 2nd Circuit to set up lousy precedent i.e NY could deny him his precious chucks and us our unalienable rights.

Of course, he's "right" we do have a right to carry chucks but fouling it up beyond repair means we do not get to exercise those rights without going to jail when caught.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Balog

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Are you channeling csd or something fisty? No need to keep baiting Micro, he's in a bad enough mood as it is.
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But will they close the chuk-show loophole?
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Perd Hapley

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I apologize for not keeping current with whatever MicroBalrog is dealing with.  Is there a thread I missed? 

Also, I apologize for not knowing that simple silliness was going to be taken as "baiting."  Lighten up, y'all.
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ilbob

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I think this is actually a pretty good case.

No matter what, it is an almost certainty that if the SC takes the case they will rule the 2A is incorporated.

What is most at risk is whether the 2A applies to nunchuks. Pretty limited downside.

bob

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MicroBalrog

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Ned, Bridgewalker, El Tejon, and others: Do I understand correctly that in the US, if and when cert gets granted, any reasonably qualified group (JPFO, NRA, GOA) can file amicus briefs?

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gunsmith

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I think this is actually a pretty good case.

No matter what, it is an almost certainty that if the SC takes the case they will rule the 2A is incorporated.

What is most at risk is whether the 2A applies to nunchuks. Pretty limited downside.



No its a certainty SCOTUS  will use a horrible case presented by nicompoops to "give" us the right to NYC/NJ style gun control.

The 2A most certainly does pertain to chucks and I love chuks as defensive weapons and am very comfortable using them, the Maloney nimrods refused to even take the Pressor analysis into consideration, thus losing incorporation in the 2nd circuit.
Now they are while trying to get cert. We have lawyers for our side who've spent lifetimes preparing for the incorporation showdown the Maloney clowns don't care one way or another, if they lose its no big deal to them, they've got the SCOTUS  case in their portfolio.
All that matters to them is how they can use the free advertising for their profit.

Kilmer, Gura are on OUR SIDE, they win gun cases, big important ones like Heller and Nordyke.
Malony can set incredibly bad precedent for guns with his bonkers chuck case.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

MicroBalrog

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You do realize many people used to say the very same things about Heller you now say about Maloney?

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

seeker_two

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Kilmer, Gura are on OUR SIDE, they win gun cases, big important ones like Heller and Nordyke.
Malony can set incredibly bad precedent for guns with his bonkers chuck case.


Maybe we should wait until the Plaxico Burris case makes it to SCOTUS, then?.....  :|
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ilbob

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Even if briefs the nunchuk nut's lawyers filed were awful, it does not force the court to accept their logic. And really, lawyers have an obligation to their clients that will probably forestall them from making a deliberately bad attempt at it no matter what they personally want. No lawyer wants to lose a case at the SC becasue of his own stupidity. That would be terrible for his career.

It was inevitable that a case was going to come forward that we would prefer to not see. At least this guy is not a violent felon.

And we do not get to decide what cases the court hears. Just the way it is.
bob

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