Author Topic: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"  (Read 5717 times)

Ben

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Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« on: April 24, 2009, 11:09:02 PM »
Something tells me a lot of Berkeley enviros are going to regret their stance when it comes time to sell their homes and they get hit with $10K in required "green" upgrades. I'm also curious as to what the city will do when city employees demand entry for "inspection" and homeowners tell them to get bent.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/22/BAD6176LJ6.DTL

Berkeley councilors: Home upgrades not required

Carolyn Jones, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Berkeley officials Tuesday stood by their plan to require homeowners to make extensive energy efficiency improvements to their homes, but appeared to back off the more costly elements of the proposal.

"Our goal is to get into everyone's home with a checklist of cost-efficient improvements," said the city's planning director, Dan Marks. "But I don't see us forcing people to spend $30,000."

Depending on the house and the residents' energy habits, the improvements could be as little as $100 for caulking and sealant, or upward of $30,000 for a new roof, windows, appliances and furnace.

The upgrades are part of the city's 145-page Climate Action Plan, which the City Council was expected to approve Tuesday night. In addition to home improvement requirements, the plan calls for a broad range of Earth-friendly programs intended to help the city meet its Measure G goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 80 percent by 2050.

The portion of the plan that applies to home improvements sparked an uproar this week from residents fearful the city would require them to spend large sums on new windows and other pricey amenities.

They may have to in the next 10 to 15 years, but probably not now, Marks said.

"Right now we're talking more in the $10,000 range," he said, noting that the improvements would only be required when a home is sold or remodeled, but that in the future, the improvements would be required of all homes. "If we're going to meet these Measure G goals, we've got to get into people's homes."

Several council members said they'd back off language in the plan that requires homeowners to upgrade.

"No one's going to show up at your door with a clipboard and force you to spend $30,000," said City Councilwoman Linda Maio. "That was never the intent of this plan."

Maio planned to ask city staff to strike the word "require" and replace it with "set a goal" and add that the city should "create a benchmark, track and report on the implementation progress at regular intervals."

Councilman Jesse Arreguin said the home improvements are a suggestion, not a requirement.

"The language is a little ambiguous," he said. "But we certainly don't want to burden homeowners, especially in this economy."

But most at City Hall agreed that Berkeley will continue to aggressively crusade for environmental improvements.

"We're not backing off this," Marks said. "We're very certain we're going to have to get there."

E-mail Carolyn Jones at carolynjones@sfchronicle.com.
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LadySmith

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 11:14:05 PM »
Quote
"No one's going to show up at your door with a clipboard and force you to spend $30,000," said City Councilwoman Linda Maio. "That was never the intent of this plan."

Funny, but that's what their plan sounds like to me.  :mad:
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Thor

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 11:27:58 PM »
Whatever happened to "private property" ??
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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 11:42:22 PM »
Whatever happened to "private property" ??

Such a silly, antiquated notion...how amusing that you inquire of it.

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Standing Wolf

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2009, 09:27:17 AM »
Quote
Whatever happened to "private property" ??

That was then. This is socialism.
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RevDisk

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2009, 11:36:23 AM »
Quote
"Our goal is to get into everyone's home with a checklist of cost-efficient improvements," said the city's planning director, Dan Marks. "But I don't see us forcing people to spend $30,000."



"Right now we're talking more in the $10,000 range," he said, noting that the improvements would only be required when a home is sold or remodeled, but that in the future, the improvements would be required of all homes. "If we're going to meet these Measure G goals, we've got to get into people's homes."


"We're not backing off this," Marks said. "We're very certain we're going to have to get there."


Wow, Mr. Marks seems very eager to break into folks' homes.  Too early to get a restraining order against him?

Question.  His job title is "planning director".  Is that an elected or appointed position?
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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2009, 08:05:22 PM »
Berkeley officials Tuesday stood by their plan to require homeowners to make extensive energy efficiency improvements to their homes, but appeared to back off the more costly elements of the proposal.

"Our goal is to get into everyone's home with a checklist of cost-efficient improvements," said the city's planning director, Dan Marks. "But I don't see us forcing people to spend $30,000."

...

"Right now we're talking more in the $10,000 range," he said, noting that the improvements would only be required when a home is sold or remodeled, but that in the future, the improvements would be required of all homes. "If we're going to meet these Measure G goals, we've got to get into people's homes."

...

Councilman Jesse Arreguin said the home improvements are a suggestion, not a requirement.

"The language is a little ambiguous," he said. "But we certainly don't want to burden homeowners, especially in this economy."

So, in essence -- $30,000 is a "burden," but $10,000 isn't?

I'm glad I don't live in Berkeley. $10,000 would be more than a "burden" for me.
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BMacklem

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2009, 01:48:22 PM »
Personally I wouldn't mind this sort of thing happening, IF and only IF they would front the bill for any improvements that would be required,even if it had to be repaid, but could be done so at no interest, over a period of 30 years.

Somehow I don't forsee that happening, so it's a moot point.

RevDisk

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2009, 05:01:00 PM »
Personally I wouldn't mind this sort of thing happening, IF and only IF they would front the bill for any improvements that would be required,even if it had to be repaid, but could be done so at no interest, over a period of 30 years.

Somehow I don't forsee that happening, so it's a moot point.

I would mind it even if the city govt could somehow loan the money.  First, it'd be hideously expensive to give everyone a 10k-30k loan.  Second, that money would have to come from taxpayers anyways.  Third, do you really want to let the city inside your house with no probable cause to run through a checklist of acceptable behavior and goods?   

Govts take as much as they are allowed to take.   I'm sure the nice Gestapo person would only check on energy usage related stuff at first.  But within a short period, it'd be looking for drugs, guns, pirated DVD's, political material, what books you have if any, if you are living within your reported means, etc etc.

The only people that should be allowed to enter a house uninvited should be the police.  They should only be allowed to do so if they have a warrant or very applicable probable cause.
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Firethorn

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2009, 09:25:45 AM »
The only people that should be allowed to enter a house uninvited should be the police.  They should only be allowed to do so if they have a warrant or very applicable probable cause.

Personally, I'd add Fire Department if there's reason to believe that there's an uncontrolled fire inside, or paramedics if somebody's not responding like they should.

HankB

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2009, 10:10:15 AM »
The only people that should be allowed to enter a house uninvited should be the police.  They should only be allowed to do so if they have a warrant or very applicable probable cause.
Personally, I'd add Fire Department if there's reason to believe that there's an uncontrolled fire inside, or paramedics if somebody's not responding like they should.
Justified government entry?

LEOs serving a valid warrant. (Provided the first LEO crossing the threshold is holding out the warrant itself.)

Hot pursuit of a dangerous criminal (like a fleeing bank robber) - sure.

For the purpose of stopping an immediate threat posing grave or grevious harm to another (like some crazy  taking potshots at passing cars) - absolutely.

Firemen responding to a burning building - of course.

Paramedics in some circumstances, yes . . . but things can get a bit dicey here.

It's hard to envision other instances where uninvited government employees would have any right to enter one's castle.
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El Tejon

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2009, 10:59:46 AM »
If city governments in California want to get inside my home, they will be expected to do laundry, clean the kitchen and bathrooms, and dust.  I want those toilets to sparkle, bureaucrats!

I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

coppertales

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2009, 11:49:38 AM »
How about some retroactive tax credits.  I did most of this stuff years ago when my electric bill went over 100 bucks a month.  Now, my neighbors have 800 buck electric bills and mine has creeped up to 200 bucks.  People here in the south just can't understand why I put 18 inches of insulation plus foil coatings on it in my atic.  "it doesn't get that cold here"......duh, why do you put beer in an ice cooler????  Oh, they reply......chris3

Scout26

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2009, 03:26:37 PM »
I'm also curious as to what the city will do when city employees demand entry for "inspection" and homeowners tell them to get bent.

Nah, the residents while proudly open their doors and demonstrate their fealty to the the State by wearing their best enviro uniforms and pointing out that they have properly displayed photos of our dear and great leader in every room along with copies of his books on every bookshelf.   They will then denounce their family and neighbors as criminals who have failed to do perform the mandated energy improvements to their homes.
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El Tejon

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2009, 04:19:52 PM »
Oh, boy, I can hardly wait to denounce scout as a Thought Criminal.

It's my turn to shine!

Thought Police=> :police:

 =D
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Strings

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2009, 04:58:55 PM »
Ok, this brings up a very serious question.

Do we turn in fistful as a thought criminal? Or is he strictly the APS scapegoat? And can he even BE charged with a "thought crime", all things considered? :laugh:
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seeker_two

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2009, 05:48:55 PM »
If city governments in California want to get inside my home, they will be expected to do laundry, clean the kitchen and bathrooms, and dust.  I want those toilets to sparkle, bureaucrats!



Don't forget mowing the yard and taking down the old Christmas decorations....  =D
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El Tejon

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2009, 05:49:23 PM »
As Lord High Thought Police Prosecutor of the Thought Police, I say "YES!"

Lord High Thought Police Poobah=> :police:
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

El Tejon

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2009, 05:50:13 PM »
seeker, putting stuffed sharks in windows is a Felony eligible for LWOP. =D
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

seeker_two

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2009, 05:55:37 PM »
Ladies With Obliging Personalities......   =D
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Scout26

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 06:26:00 PM »
Oh, boy, I can hardly wait to denounce scout as a Thought Criminal.

It's my turn to shine!

Thought Police=> :police:

 =D

Other then not having the soon-to-be required photos and books of our dear-great leader, I did the energy upgrade thingy when we first bought the house (new triple pane windows, extra insulation, new A/C Furnace, Waer Heater as well as the whole house weather seal and caulk thing). 

So you can definitely nail me on the whole ThoughtCrime thing, but I'd might get off on the CarbonCrime charge....until they see the 3 full cords of firewood in the backyard....oops... 

Might as well go for the Death penalty and put dead appliances on the front porch along a old car or two up on blocks in the front yard....Anyone know where I can buy a 3'x4' Confederate flag in the Chicagoland area ??


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« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 06:29:46 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Tim L

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Re: Berkeley: "Our Goal is to Get Inside Everyone's Home"
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2009, 07:03:46 PM »
Don't forget mowing the yard and taking down the old Christmas decorations....  =D

Just make sure it's one of the old fashioned push reel mowers that doesn't gas or electricity, that way they get plenty of exercise as well. =D
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 07:06:48 PM by Tim L »