The economy is turning, so why not kill the Porkulus bill?

[Monkeyleg]

Just as many predicted late last year, this recession, like every other, is cyclical and will eventually end. The stock market and other usually reliable indicators suggest that we've seen the bottom and things will be turning. And "only" a few billion of the trillions of dollars in proposed spending have been spent.

So why spend it at all? If this is just like every other recession, albeit much more severe than most, why wreck the economy and the country? (I think we all know the answer).

The stock markets have retreated every time Obama opened his mouth, so it's not as though nationalizing banks and industries is something investors favor.

Can't someone stop this train now?

[makattak]

We could kill the Porkulus bill.

However, given that its purpose never was to "turn the economy around" they will not kill it.

"Turning the economy around" was simply the justification for massive spending.

[TommyGunn]

We could kill the Porkulus bill.

However, given that its purpose never was to "turn the economy around" they will not kill it.

"Turning the economy around" was simply the justification for massive spending.

+1

[Sindawe]

"Turning the economy around" was simply the justification for massive spending seizing more control.

Fixed it for ya.

Of course the spending bills will not be withdrawn, else that would prove that the markets in the end self correct sans the need of centralized control.

And that goes against the diaclectic of history and such cannot be permitted to happen.

[zahc]

The porkulus was about fixing the ecomony like the war in Iraq was about WMD.

[Standing Wolf]

The stock markets have retreated every time Obama opened his mouth, so it's not as though nationalizing banks and industries is something investors favor.

Those shameless capitalist pig investors need to be punished. Beatings will be continued until morale improves.

[seeker_two]

According to the True Believers of Obama, just the fact that the Blessed One spoke the words of support for the Porkulus Bill was enough to give our economy Hope and Change....when he inscribes his Holy Mark onto the Bill, the heavens will open and rain manna and kool-aid upon the masses and hearken the coming of Paradise....and the throwing of the Great Bush-y Satan and his minions into the lake of (eco-friendly) fire.....


In other words, that bill's gonna happen no matter what.... 

[tokugawa]

Turning around? You are joking, yes? 
    The recent uptick in the market was based mostly on fraud (again), the rules being changed to allow the banks to value the bad paper at face value. We have had a huge upsurge last month in PRIME defaults, the unemployment rate continues to be horrendous, the commercial morgages are starting to fail, the CC industry is on the ropes, a new wave of ALT_ARM resets is coming soon, we have a defiect equivalent to the entire GNP, our medicare liability is twice the entire value of every piece of land, buildings and personal property in America, We are printing money like mad, and we are starting the retirement of boomers with no job, a 201K, underwater in the morgage, a huge debt load on personal goods, and no savings. 
      This thing has a long way to go yet, and a lot further down to slide.  JMHO
 

[tokugawa]

Oh yeah, I forgot- the swindle-us bill is exactly that, a funding of every misbegotten leftist wish list of the past forty years, that could not get through congress by normal means.
   We are being ripped off to pay for Wall St's gambling debt and to buy political capital.

[Waitone]

It ain't over.  Next up--commercial real estate.  You are looking at a sucker's rally.

[Monkeyleg]

You are looking at a sucker's rally.

Maybe. But the markets do look forward, and the prevailing view is that we'll see improvement in the economy later this year or early next. Again, if that's the case, why appropriate billions that won't be spent until 2011 anyway? (Question already answered).

Tokugawa, fraud? How huge an upsurge in defaults? Are fewer than 95% of homeowners not in default? Much of what you describe has been our situation for many years.

[Waitone]

Bobble heads are puzzled as to why banks aren't lending what with all the TARP money given them.  I'll wager they don't lend because they have to build up reserves in anticipation of a new wave of bad loans coming home to roost.  Enthusiasm seems to be rooted in the comparatively good news on earning (earnings from the same banks that took TARP money).  Is it reasonable to get excited on earnings statements when the balance sheets MAY look good because Sugar Daddy gave the bank free money???  In any case your point is well taken.  Why spend the money if it is not intended to buy control.

[tokugawa]

Yes, fraud- people who could not afford the homes they bought and lied about income and jobs, the brokers who knew they were lying and made the loan anyway, because they knew they could sell them, the security firms who knew the loans were junk but packaged them into "AAA" bonds, the whole stinking thing is full of fraud. And the Fed as well.
  The default numbers  on prime mortgages are rising steeply, as well as the number of "modified" loan defaults- gee, wonder why-they bought a house they could not afford, and guess what? They still can't afford it, even with a modified loan. 
  The general concensus of the "economic turnaround" is being pushed by the folks with something to gain. (from you)  Skim around on economic blogs for a bit of tempering. Chris Martensons "crash course", maybe Karl Denningers "Market Ticker", a few places like that. 
 
   

[Strings]

>The porkulus was about fixing the ecomony like the war in Iraq was about WMD.<

I think it's more in line with the war in Afghanistan being about WMDs. There's still the possibility that some WMDs MIGHT be found in Iraq: there's no possibility of the Porkulus Bill actually helping the economy...

[Waitone]

Dick, we've repeatedly been told the financial sector is essential to the health of the economy in general.  We get one quarter of "good news" and some bobble heads think the recession has bottomed.

Here is a contrarian view of the health of our banks
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10139.html

[Nick1911]

The porkulus was about fixing the ecomony like the war in Iraq was about WMD.

At the serious risk of thread drift, what is the Iraq war about?

[longeyes]

The bobble heads are there to be cheerleaders and to transfer wealth from the dumb to the less dumb.

As others have said, Obamanomics is not economics at all; it is consolidating political control.

[Gewehr98]

I wouldn't let an isolated report or two of rising stocks be a barometer of economic upswing. 

We're not out of this yet, not by a long shot.

[Perd Hapley]

At the serious risk of thread drift, what is the Iraq war about?

If you insist:

It's about how the politician most associated with our victory in Iraq (John McCain), lost to a know-nothing who kept promising to end the war his opponent had already ended.  OK, not that McCain actually won the war or pulled out the troops, but still the irony is palpable. 

[Gewehr98]

In related news, Chrysler filed for bankruptcy this morning...

[Jamisjockey]

Okay the root causes of the Iraq war are way way way off topic for this thread.  Start another one or this thread gets it.

[Monkeyleg]

Wait, you can't shoot my thread.

[seeker_two]

Wait, you can't shoot my thread.

I don't think he's shot your thread as much as he's grabbed it from behind, put a gun to its temple, cocked the hammer, and told the hero to drop his gun or the thread gets it's head blown off....

[Jamisjockey]

I don't think he's shot your thread as much as he's grabbed it from behind, put a gun to its temple, cocked the hammer, and told the hero to drop his gun or the thread gets it's head blown off....

If fistful of scapegoat is the hero in this scenario....the universe is askew.