So you want to build a computer...

[Perd Hapley]

Those of you who've answered my flurry of computer questions lately have some idea of my technical geek-competency - or lack thereof.  Should I even think about rolling my own?  How hard is it? 

This is a long-term project; I expect to put it together sometime in the next two years.  I might start salting away parts right now.  I'll be looking for used parts, where I can get away with it.  Any tips?  I've seen some books on the subject.  Any recommendations on those?

I'm not looking for anything spectacular or specialized.  The most demanding thing it will have to do is run video from the web or DVD, or run multiple Word documents and Firefox tabs.  I'll probably use Ubuntu on it, but I might want to add Windows 7, or whatever they're going to call it. 

And I'm well aware that I could buy a real neato computer right now, at Geeks.com, and probably save myself a lot of time, money and aggravation.  But I really just want to do it, just to do it.   

For processors, should I look for an AMD or an Intel, or what?  If I use, say, a P4 HT, at 3 GigHz, will I be sorry I didn't hold out for a Dual-Core?

Will a 250 Watt power supply work alright, or does it have to be a 450 Watt, or something?  I'm thinking about using the case/power supply from a Dell GX240.  They have a 250 Watt supply. 

What about motherboards?  Is DDR 1 good enough, or will I be sorry I didn't go for the DDR2? 

If I use an older CD drive, will it be problematical, or is one as good as the other? 

Thanks,

Josh

[zahc]

I like AMD. They are always cheaper per performance point. I have a dual-core 5400 I believe.

Most people go overkill on PSU by a lot. Then again cheap PSUs are often underrated. A GOOD (seasonic) 300W psu is enough for the great majority of normal (ie not dual video card etc.) systems.

DDR is a waste of time. DDR2 all the way, this isn't 2004.

As long as the CD drive works, it works. Some are faster and quieter than others.

Right now, get Nvidia graphics if you want to run linux.

[Regolith]

There are several guides on the internet that detail how to build a computer.  A little googling should yield a good one.


Most motherboards these days are going to be DDR2.  Unless you buy a used one, going with DDR2 would be easier, and it probably won't cost you that much extra money.

Newegg.com always has some good deals on CPU/motherboard combos.  I'd check there if you are planning on buying new.  You will NOT find a P4 motherboard for a decent price.  It's too obsolete, and anything you do find will likely not be very capable and will cost far more than newer ones will.  I found this out several years ago when my P4 board fried.

Get a decent AMD processor in the $50-100 range; it will serve you well.  I bought an AMD 64 3800+ two years ago for $55 or so, and with graphics cards upgrades, I can still play most modern games.

If you get a new motherboard/cpu, it's not likely your Dell power supply will be compatible, particularly if the new board has an AMD processor. Also, I've learned the hard way that it's not a good idea to skimp on power supplies. While some cheap power supplies are ok, the vast majority are not to be trusted.  I had to rebuild twice due to cheap power supplies - a crappy power supply can fry your motherboard or destroy your video card.  Another problem with cheap power supplies is that their true rated power doesn't come close to what the manufacturers claim it to be. 

Seasonic psu's are ok.  Corsair makes some of the best ones for the price, though, however they are a bit spendy (my 450 watt Corsair was in the $80 range when I bought it a year or two ago).  Newegg currently sells a Corsair 400 watt model for $50 that would probably work extremely well for your purpose.

Incidentally, Corsair also makes some really good memory, as well, and their value DDR2 RAM is usually very well priced.

Like Zahc said, if the CD drive works, it works.  You may want to look into something that can play and burn DVDs and CDs, though, if your current model can't.  They're more convenient.

[RocketMan]

I've had good results with Antec power supplies and cases, fistful.  Look at some of the user reviews on Newegg before you make a purchase.  They are very helpful.

[KPT]

I've had good results with Antec power supplies and cases, fistful.  Look at some of the user reviews on Newegg before you make a purchase.  They are very helpful.

I've had bad luck with Antec. I had a 550 watt antec PS die and my brother had a 450(?) die. They seem to have been better in the past though as I have an older 480 watt antec somewhere that works. I've got a 750 watt PC Power & Cooling now that is rock solid.

The 250 watt might work. It won't support a decent video card but those are mainly for gaming and it doesn't sound like you are building a gaming rig.

AMD is good for a budget build. They seem to change their sockets around more than Intel though. My motherboard is nearly three years old but my CPU is much newer (Intel Q9550). What I'm trying to say is if you want to get a cheap CPU and a better one down the road when prices fall get a newish socket (socket 775 for Intel, I don't keep up with AMD but I think its socket AM2+). There are newer sockets but that is out of your budget I'd bet.

You could probably get a free computer off of craigslist to play with. The parts will likely be of no use in the new build but you could take it apart and put it back together for practice without fear of releasing the factory installed smoke.

[RocketMan]

I've had bad luck with Antec. I had a 550 watt antec PS die and my brother had a 450(?) die. They seem to have been better in the past though as I have an older 480 watt antec somewhere that works.

Interesting, KPT.  I wonder why the run of bad luck?  For the most part I have used nothing but various flavors of Antec in my and my client's machines.  I've lost track of how many it's been.  Never a hiccup with any of them, though.
I do calculate the power requirements based on the hardware, and install a supply with enough overhead so it doesn't have to work hard under heavy use.   That might have something to do with it.
I've used Rosewill and CoolerMaster in that past, too, but only one of each.  Not enough to build any kind of representative sample.

[Regolith]

My sister's Antec died, too, actually, but it didn't take the rest of the computer with it.  One of the two fans it had in it died, so it needed to be replaced.  We replaced it with a slightly beefier version from the same brand.  I think the one she had was one of their budget models that they ship with their cases, which don't tend to be as good as the ones that are sold separately.

[MicroBalrog]

In my experience - I've assembled literally dozens of computers in the Army and at work - the main work with assembling a computer is determining what parts you want in it and actually procuring them (some stuff, like advanced cooling system, can be pretty difficult to get) rather than actually the physical actions involved in assembling it.

[bedlamite]

My old 'puter desperately needed an upgrade, so I started looking, and for the cost to replace my fried LAN card, memory upgrade, and newer hard drive, I figured I might as well spend a few more dollars and get a whole system that is much faster. I just recently put this one together:

motherboard
cpu
memory
hard drive
power supply

My objective was to keep it as cheap as possible. I used my old case, cd/dvd drive, monitor, mouse and keyboard. Zero problems running Ubuntu. Just make sure you keep touching the grounded case while you assemble it so static doesn't kill your new computer before you even turn it on.

I just reread your post, don't bother collecting parts for a year or two before putting it together. They may or may not work with anything that's available in a couple years, and if they are still available next year, they will be 1/4 the price and faster parts will be available for the same price you paid. Whether you do it now or later spend $300 all at once and order all the parts at the same time.

[Perd Hapley]

Thanks everybody. 

Mr. Bedlamite, thanks for the example parts list.  It is informative.  Looks like it was 200+, then?

The power supply link points to the hard drive, though.  Hope your new computer is super-duper. 

[Waitone]

If you have the intellectual horsepower to install Windows, you can roll your own PC.  Buy on the forward edge of technology, not the leading edge.  Dual core not quad core.  Mid range speed, not high speed.  Affirmative on DDR2 only buy lots of it.  From you apps list it sounds like 1 gig would work so get 2 gigs.  Every item you purchase will have a power requirements list.  Add it all up then buy a 500 watter.  I would not recommend re-using hardware from a store bought system.  Standards include physical dimensions BUT NOT ALL PHYSICAL DIMENSIONS.  Store bought systems engineer physical dimensions for their convenience which may preclude you from substituting free range parts.  Save on aggravation and just start from scratch with a new box.

[RocketMan]

My sister's Antec died, too, actually, but it didn't take the rest of the computer with it.  One of the two fans it had in it died, so it needed to be replaced. 

Did the fan actually die, or was it just not turning on?  In many of the dual fan Antec power supplies, the second fan is thermostatically controlled.  It doesn't turn on unless the temperature in the power supply rises enough to require the extra cooling.  The second fan is usually the one on the rear of the supply.  Thus, the fan control doubles as a fan noise reduction feature.
That feature fooled me a couple of times until I realized what was going on.  I pulled a two of their power supplies from service before I realized what was happening.   Those two supplies have since been put back to work, and have been flawless.
I think a lot of "failed" Antec power supplies have fallen into this category.

eta: Sometimes it pays to read the fine print in the manual.  Something that I have to remind myself of frequently.

[KPT]

Interesting, KPT.  I wonder why the run of bad luck? 

Don't know, I think I remember reading Antec having quality issues for a period of time. The 550 watt was loaded down but not overloaded.
Core 2 Duo, 5 HD's at one point, 2 optical and a 7950 GT. It worked for almost a year and then would start randomly rebooting while gaming. I put an 8800 GTS in the computer and it would reboot before a game finished loading.

That was a smartpower. I RMA'd it and got an earthpower which is still working in a computer I built for a friend.

[Regolith]

Did the fan actually die, or was it just not turning on?  In many of the dual fan Antec power supplies, the second fan is thermostatically controlled.  It doesn't turn on unless the temperature in the power supply rises enough to require the extra cooling.  The second fan is usually the one on the rear of the supply.  Thus, the fan control doubles as a fan noise reduction feature.
That feature fooled me a couple of times until I realized what was going on.  I pulled a two of their power supplies from service before I realized what was happening.   Those two supplies have since been put back to work, and have been flawless.
I think a lot of "failed" Antec power supplies have fallen into this category.

eta: Sometimes it pays to read the fine print in the manual.  Something that I have to remind myself of frequently.

No, it died.  The bearings failed, and its death was rather loud. 

Fans do that sometimes, though, which is why I went ahead and replaced it with another Antec instead of shopping for another brand (that, and Antec was the only thing the local store had on hand).

[RocketMan]

No, it died.  The bearings failed, and its death was rather loud.

Ah, so you fell victim to the "Screaming Bearings of Death."  As you say, that does happen.  I wonder if Antec uses ball bearing or sleeve bearing fans?

(And I wonder if I can copyright that "Screaming Bearings of Death" phrase?)

[Perd Hapley]

If you have the intellectual horsepower to install Windows, you can roll your own PC. 

Yes, thank you, I do posses the overpowering intelligence that is required to install Windows.  

I would not recommend re-using hardware from a store bought system.  Standards include physical dimensions BUT NOT ALL PHYSICAL DIMENSIONS.  Store bought systems engineer physical dimensions for their convenience which may preclude you from substituting free range parts.  Save on aggravation and just start from scratch with a new box.

That's kind of a bummer.  I really like this old Dell tower that I have.  Nice and roomy.  Lots of venting in the rear.  Course that clam shell design is a bit funky. 

Just wanted to add that I'll be buying a big, thick how-to book, eventually, so I hope I won't be nit-pickin' y'all to death about this. 

[lupinus]

I've not built my own yet for lack of funds, but I have been studying the process and plan to do so.  All in all it does not seem that hard, the harder part is figuring what you want to do with it and going from there.

As to buying parts here and there I would avoid it and just set yourself up with a computer build fund, which is what I have done.  This way when I go to do it I know all the parts are compatible and that I'm getting something that is up to date.  Why spend fifty bucks today for a build happening a year from now, when you can likely spend the same fifty bucks a year from now on a part that is that much better? 

Computers are still one of those things where as soon as you buy something, something newer and better is available before you get the thing home, and available for the same price you just paid.  The best system I ever had (specs wise anyway....will never own another Dell) I bought new from Dell for over 2k.  2 1/2 years later I bought the computer I use now.  Computers with comparable or better specs as the Dell were going for just under a grand.  So save the money and buy parts all at once when ready to build.  Save buying a piece here and there for a car rebuild.

[Regolith]

That's kind of a bummer.  I really like this old Dell tower that I have.  Nice and roomy.  Lots of venting in the rear.  Course that clam shell design is a bit funky. 

Manufacturer cases can sometimes be made to work, but it's a bit of a gamble, since they'll sometimes make some parts fit a proprietary dimension while making others standard dimensions.

My sister had an old gateway that I got from her after I replaced it with a custom one.  I used its case to put together a Frankenstein machine that's currently serving as a multimedia PC.  The only major modifications I had to make to the case was to take a hacksaw to the holes for the external motherboard connections so that I could install my own motherboard, as Gateway had made the holes specific for their motherboard.  Most aftermarket cases just have a large rectangular hole that allows you to fit a faceplate that the motherboard manufacturers include with their products. 

[Jim147]

A two year pc project is a bit long the way technology and prices go.
I would buy the motherboard and processor last in that case.
I've dealt with geeks.com for over ten years. Check the tech pages for info on building a system.
If you look at the dvd drive section you will see DL sata drives for around $20.00 no need to worry about using your old cd drive. In two years you may not find a board with IDE.
If I was to plan the build you are talking about I would get an AM2+ board with four DDR2 slots. You could put a single or duel core in it with 2 gig memory to start but upgrade later to a quad core with 8+ gig memory.
Memory prices don't seem to jump like they used too, but you never know. It's cheap right now.
Check your motherboard and video before buying a power supply.

[Perd Hapley]

Thanks again, all. 

Manufacturer cases can sometimes be made to work, but it's a bit of a gamble, since they'll sometimes make some parts fit a proprietary dimension while making others standard dimensions.

I'm thinking I'll order everything, and then see if it fits the old Dell case.  If not, I can always order a new case.  In that case.  As the case may be.

You could probably get a free computer off of craigslist to play with. The parts will likely be of no use in the new build but you could take it apart and put it back together for practice without fear of releasing the factory installed smoke.

.

I just discovered that one of the machines has a couple of capacitors bulging.  It's in a bad way; had overheating problems, and that was BEFORE I took off the CPU heatsink and then put it back together without any grease.    

A guy I know has a Gig of DDR 1 and a Pent. 4 chip I was gonna put in there.  If his price is cheap enough, I'll go ahead and get the stuff, and install it just for "practice."  And I'll even use grease this time.     Shucks.  I could even take out the mobo and bring it to Dad's auto shop, and have him solder in some new capacitors.  Have mysef a real bubba-fied compooter then. 

[bedlamite]

  Have mysef a real bubba-fied compooter then. 

That doesn't happen until you have everything stuck in a cardboard box from the grocery store, with a small oscillating fan that didn't oscillate anymore for cooling. Yes, it ran reliably. No it wasn't mine.

[Firethorn]

This is a long-term project; I expect to put it together sometime in the next two years.  I might start salting away parts right now.  I'll be looking for used parts, where I can get away with it.  Any tips?  I've seen some books on the subject.  Any recommendations on those?

I wouldn't bother with 'salting away' used parts, excepting the keyboard/mouse/monitor.  You should be able to get by with a used DVD drive.  Maybe, and that's a big maybe, the case/power supply.

I generally consider the motherboard/cpu/memory to be a 'set' that I keep together - by the time I replace one, ALL are seriously out of date, it ends up being cheaper to buy all new as a set.  I'll generally keep a couple slots open for additional RAM.

For processors, should I look for an AMD or an Intel, or what?  If I use, say, a P4 HT, at 3 GigHz, will I be sorry I didn't hold out for a Dual-Core?

Given your timeline, I can't make a recommendation, they switch as to what's best every other month or so.  Both would work.  I WOULD hold out for at least a dual-core, makes the system respond SO much nicer when one of the programs is trying to consume 100% CPU power, as it generally leaves the other core alone.

Will a 250 Watt power supply work alright, or does it have to be a 450 Watt, or something?  I'm thinking about using the case/power supply from a Dell GX240.  They have a 250 Watt supply. 

My concern here is that Dells might have a propriatary power supply, in a propriatory case, designed to use a propriatory motherboard.  For a basic computer, 250 watts would be enough, but a good quality 300-400 watter(such as a seasonic) might be better.  I'd look for 80+ certification.  It's hard to find quality low wattage power supplies, but they're most efficient around 60-80% capacity.  So if your computer operates between 240-320 watts, the 400 watt would be the best choice.  180-240 for the 300 watt model.

There's a big article over at anandtech on this.

If I use an older CD drive, will it be problematical, or is one as good as the other? 

Noise, speed, reliability would be the only concern, and I hope it's a DVD drive, not a CD drive.  Oh, and an older one will likely be PATA, not SATA, the newer standard.  PATA heads are starting to get a bit rare on motherboards, and a new DVD burner is like $20.

[roo_ster]

That doesn't happen until you have everything stuck in a cardboard box from the grocery store, with a small oscillating fan that didn't oscillate anymore for cooling. Yes, it ran reliably. No it wasn't mine.

That is so cool.

Just wanted to add that I'll be buying a big, thick how-to book, eventually, so I hope I won't be nit-pickin' y'all to death about this. 

Oh, yeah, you are really starting to chap one of the few demographics that rival gunnys when it comes to talking hardware. 

Also, you can add in the geek cred accrued to the poster who provides a useful solution to your problem.

Now, if you were asking questions like, "Which is the 'any' button?" you might get something like this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dumbentia.com%2Fpdflib%2Fstupida.pdf&ei=jsT1Sc3gK6Dhtgfe0cirDw&usg=AFQjCNFc9m094cJuKYupauLDoLpk3cgyLg&sig2=bD574Isbo_dpAuUaczUnZA

[Perd Hapley]

Crap.  I can't figure out which is cooler.  The cardboard computer or the computer with the StupidaPeripherals. 

[Nightfall]

I just built our current PC three or so weeks ago. As had been said, most of the work is choosing the parts. If you're doing this as a hobby or such, go for it. However, if you're looking at the real low end of the scale because of cost, IMHO it is often not a horrible idea to go with something like Dell.

That said, you've already listed the roles you want this PC to fill, so if you throw these geeks a dollar range to work with, they'll probably throw half a dozen configurations for you to peruse at newegg.com or such.