Author Topic: Israel?  (Read 10906 times)

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Israel?
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2005, 11:07:08 AM »
The Israelis had reason to panic.

This was during the period when Nasser was preaching "Arab unity".  He actually merged the nation of Egypt with that of Syria for a while there.  That meant Israel had militarily strong opposition dedicated to their complete destruction just NE and SW of their own borders.

THAT is not a good position to be in.  I can excuse quite a bit under THOSE circumstances.

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Israel?
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2005, 11:10:50 AM »
Let's give an example:

You live in a really bad neighborhood.  The Crips (gang) have moved in and are running completely rampant - killing, looting, raping, etc.  The cops aren't doing squat about it.

Would it be OK to find a cop car with no actual cops around, torch it and write "CRIPS 4EVER!" right next to the wreckage, to get the cops to put their lazy butts in gear?

If things were bad enough, sure I'd consider it.

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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2005, 12:32:39 PM »
There was a problem with my analogy.

In the case of the US/Egypt/Israel, it was more like "the cops were crawling into bed with the crips".

Would THAT warrant a reaction?

I'm not even going to dignify the "they should be our bitch" thing with any comment.  None should be needed.

They were (and are) the ones surrounded by lunatics eager to kill them.  Lunatics whose existence we not only ignored, but often supported as "anti-communist allies".

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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2005, 02:26:22 PM »
Quote from: Blackburn
Why SHOULDN'T they be in a subservient position? They exist at our pleasure.
Hahaha
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« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2005, 02:37:45 PM »
Where's the "open mouthed shock at something truly ghastly" smiley?

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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2005, 03:40:32 PM »
Quote from: Blackburn
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say any of this if Israel conducted themselves in a manner consistent with the Israel of the bible. I'm not even a replacement theologist- my issue is with the Israeli government, not the people. They are no longer the freedom fighters who beat impossible odds to reestablish a Jewish state, and continued to do so to ensure it's survival.

Big Mean Mr. Bush keeps bossing Sharon around to adopt some new stupid peace accord that involves giving land away? Too F'in Bad. If the Israelis were all everyone claims they still are, they wouldn't be giving away their birthright hand over fist and using their soldiers to evict their own settlers.
And your solution is to make Israel a vassal of the US??

You dont see Israel's policies now as fighting to insure Israel's continued survival?  You have a lot to learn.
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Israel?
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2005, 03:53:07 PM »
Are they more important than an empty consulate building or three blown up in the middle of the night FIFTY freakin' years ago?

Absolutely.

Giving up the "occupied territories" is a slick move.  Once they do that, if terrorism still happens then it's obvious the only thing left is their survival at all.  All other issues go away, and "the gloves can come off".  It opens the door to all options including air superiority.

Do you understand that when Israel deals with terrorism via land war, it's because they're looking for more precision than even close-in airstrikes with smartbombs can achieve?  That they're looking to reduce casualties even though it's rougher on their own troops?

Phantom Warrior

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« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2005, 07:15:00 PM »
Quote from: Blackburn
Like I said- I'm happy for them to do their own thang. They should just be doing their own thang knowing that if they ever cross us again, Jerusalem becomes fused glass. That'd probably end up actually bringing us some actual peace in the middle east.
Because it's Israel that starts all the wars in the Middle East, including that one right in 1948 when they were barely a state.  NOT everyone else.

richyoung

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« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2005, 05:06:28 AM »
Quote from: JimMarch
Are they more important than an empty consulate building or three blown up in the middle of the night FIFTY freakin' years ago?

Absolutely.
After Oklahoma City, the World Trade Center twice, numerous embassies, and the USS Cole, I take a darn dim view of people blowing up US property - especially so-called "allies".  To be correct, the targets were:
post offices;
USIA libraries in Alexandria and Cairo;
2 Cairo cinemas;
Cairo railway terminal;
Cairo central post office;
an unsuccessful attack on the British owned Rio theater in Alexandria.

Any subsequent attacks were foiled by the arrest of the spy ring.

Lastly, the motivation for the attacks must be examined.  While there is a good deal of truth in the reasons put forth by Jim March, it's not the whole story.  Israel was attempting to prevent Egypt from nationalizing the Suez canal, AND was seeking to deflect attention away from a disatrous raid that had caused 69 civillian casualties - these factored into the fiasco as well.  What is more disturbing is that the President of Israel has recently "honored" the surviving members of the terrorist network for their activities.  How can we condemn terror attacks from SOME nations, while ignoring them from others?
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richyoung

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« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2005, 05:17:07 AM »
Quote from: Phantom Warrior
Quote from: Blackburn
Like I said- I'm happy for them to do their own thang. They should just be doing their own thang knowing that if they ever cross us again, Jerusalem becomes fused glass. That'd probably end up actually bringing us some actual peace in the middle east.
Because it's Israel that starts all the wars in the Middle East, including that one right in 1948 when they were barely a state.  NOT everyone else.
You MIGHT want to check who the agressor was in 1956, 1967, 1978, 1982 and 2002.
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richyoung

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« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2005, 06:21:42 AM »
Quote from: Blackburn
Are they more important than we are?
GOOD QUESTION - especially in light of their stealing our nuclear plans and trading them to the Ruskies for more emmigration....
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Phantom Warrior

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« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2005, 08:33:23 AM »
Quote from: richyoung
You MIGHT want to check who the agressor was in 1956, 1967, 1978, 1982 and 2002.
Fair enough.

1956 Suez War
Israel invades Gaza and the Sinai as part of a deal with Britain and France to help the British regain control of the Suez Canal after it was nationalized by Egypt.  Also precipitated by Egyptian harassment of Israel vessels in the Staits of Tiran in clear violation of international law and raiding and infiltration by various Arab countries.

1967 Six Day War
Israel launches a preemptive strike against Egypt, followed by strikes into the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Sinai after numerous provocations.  Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran (again), which Israel had clearly stated would be considered a casus belli after the Suez War.  Admittedly, Israel's response was probably out of proportion under international law, but they did give a fair warning.  Also, Egypt was massing troops on Israel's border in the Sinai, including asking the U.N. peacekeeping force to withdraw.  Finally, Iraq, Sudan, Kuwait and Algeria were also mobilizing their troops.  

I can't find anything on 1978...

1982 Lebanon War
Israel invaded southern Lebanon in response to the significant growth of the PLO (which was and is is very
hostile to Israel) and harassment back and forth between Israeli and PLO forces.

Al-Aqsa Intifada
After two years of unrest and suicide bombings and the capture of the Santorini and the Karine A carrying weapons for Palestinian militants Israel launches operations against Palestinian militants.


Admittedly, Israel launched the first strikes in all of these cases.  However, the provocation in each case was tremendous.  Consider the fact that Israel is a very tiny state (40 miles across at Jerusalem and only 70 miles across at it's widest) surrounded by states hostile to it's very existence.  Israel doesn't have the strategic depth or the population to just sit there and take the first hit.  Consider the wars in which Israel didn't launch a preemptive strike...

1948 Arab-Israeli War
Mere days after the expiration of the British Mandate Israel is invaded by a coalition of 40,000 soldiers from seven Arab nations.  The Arab force was well-trained and had a tremendous advantage in equipment.  Consider the following:

 IDF : Arabs
Tanks 1 (w/o gun) : 40
Armored cars (w/ cannon) 2 : 200
Armored cars (w/o cannon) 120 : 300
Artillery 5 : 140
AA and AT guns 24 : 220
Warplanes 0 : 74
Scout planes 28 : 57
Navy (armed ships) 3 : 12

It was generally agreed that Israel would be defeated within weeks.  Well, that obviously didn't happen.

1970 War of Attrition
This was a fairly limited war.  It can be summed up as Egypt starting fights and violating ceasefires.  Read the link for details, it's actually pretty interesting.  This is a great quote regarding the third or so ceasefire, "Minutes after the cease-fire Egypt began moving SAM batteries into the zone even though the agreement had explicitly forbidden new military installations. By October there were about 100 SAM sites in the zone."

1973 Yom Kippur War
Israel is attacked ON Yom Kippur (the equivalent of hitting the U.S. on Christmas Day) by a force that outnumbers them 3-1.  Troop and tank number given for reference...
IDF : Arabs
Troops 415,000 : 1.2 million
Tanks 1,500 : 3,860
Despite being caught with their pants down initially Israel managed to turn the tide in both the Golan Heights and the Sinai, threaten the Syrian and Egyptian capitals, and trap the Egyptian Third Army.  Fortunately, the fact that the Arabs fought well initially, but were eventually defeated made them willing to enter into the peace process at Camp David.


In how many of these instances do you see Israel actively picking a fight?  In how many instances do you see Israel getting invaded by several countries at once?  

If someone pulls a gun on you how long do you wait before you shoot back?  Until you see a gun?  Until he's drawing it?  Until it's pointed at you?  Until the bullet is flying at you?  Until you are bleeding?  I don't think it's fair to demand the right to self-defense for yourself, but criticize Israel for exercising it.

Bemidjiblade

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Israel?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2005, 09:09:28 AM »
Rich Young... What is the definition of preemptive strike?
Or should they have given their allies time to unite against them, prepare their positions, stock and supply their troops, and launch coordinated offensvies, having publicly declared their intentions to wipe the nation off of the face fo the planet?

I don't carry firearms.  So if someone armed is within the 30' rule and starts to draw on me, I'm going to kill him.  DRT.

Guess that makes me the evil aggressor?

Edit:  i should say that someone who has threatened repeatedly to promise to kill me, and has made the attempt once before, is within striking range and starts to draw on me.

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« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2005, 10:56:29 AM »
Quote from: Bemidjiblade
Rich Young... What is the definition of preemptive strike?
Depends on who is striking - according to Japan, Dec. 7th was a "preemptive strike" - still just as wrong, though...

Quote
Or should they have given their allies time to unite against them, prepare their positions, stock and supply their troops, and launch coordinated offensvies, having publicly declared their intentions to wipe the nation off of the face fo the planet?

I don't carry firearms.  So if someone armed is within the 30' rule and starts to draw on me, I'm going to kill him.  DRT.

Guess that makes me the evil aggressor?

Edit:  i should say that someone who has threatened repeatedly to promise to kill me, and has made the attempt once before, is within striking range and starts to draw on me.
Words and actions are two different things.  Whatever the rational, (and it may indeed have been a GOOD rational), the fact remains that Israel STARTED the 67 war AND deliberately attacked a neutral vessel in international waters on an espionage mission to HELP them.  What, pray tell, was the reason in 1956, (other than to prevent Egypt from nationalizing the canal?)  Lebanon in 78 and 82?  Israel seems to want it both ways - "We wuz attacked for no reason!" (as in 48 and 73) when they clearly are struck first, and "These are PREEMPTIVE strikes" when they are clearly the aggressor.  Plus I take it personal when Israel chooses to risk MY hide, (as in selling stolen American secrets to the Russians) for THEIR ends - they have no right to do so.
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Bemidjiblade

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« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2005, 12:06:45 PM »
Quote from: richyoung
Words and actions are two different things.  Whatever the rational, (and it may indeed have been a GOOD rational), the fact remains that Israel STARTED the 67 war AND deliberately attacked a neutral vessel in international waters on an espionage mission to HELP them.  What, pray tell, was the reason in 1956, (other than to prevent Egypt from nationalizing the canal?)  Lebanon in 78 and 82?  Israel seems to want it both ways - "We wuz attacked for no reason!" (as in 48 and 73) when they clearly are struck first, and "These are PREEMPTIVE strikes" when they are clearly the aggressor.  Plus I take it personal when Israel chooses to risk MY hide, (as in selling stolen American secrets to the Russians) for THEIR ends - they have no right to do so.
ok.
For starters, did I miss a public announcement from the surrounding hostile governments that they no longer want to wipe Israel off the face of the planet?  Have they stopped paying the families of homicide bombers money in exchange for their acts of terrorism?  For that matter, have they stopped exporting homicide bombers and militants to Iraq?

Why oh why would Israel have to take military action to prevent a hostile foreign power with avowed intentions of their distruction from gaining control of the most crucial shipping venue in the continent?  Whatever it might have been, it must have been inconsequential.  I mean, both England and France were part of that international action.  Obviously there can't have been any reason for that, either.

Using your own logic, then the US must be the aggressor and evil for going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq for those exact same reasons.  Why is there this double standard across the world that the Jewish people alone have no right to self-defense?

If you want the people of Israel to not actively engage in intelligence against us, then maybe we should allow them the freedom to engage in the same levels of international militance that we are supporting for our own country.

Why can't I get it out of our head from Desert Storm as we pressured and manipulated Israel into ALLOWING Iraq to launch scuds into their residential districts so that we could follow our own agendas.

You want Israel to trust us, well, we haven't exactly been the most trustworthy or compassionate allies.  And for the past 15 years we've been riding their butts to live in peace with the militant islamofascists who support the murder of their women and children in public places.

I'm at a total loss to understand how you have arrived at this blatant double-standard.

I'm not even going into the specifics of nuking Jerusalem if they upset us again.  If I genuinely thought that any significan portion of the American people supported such a heinous standard of international relations, I'd have to start rooting for the other side, because we really would be the Imperial Satans the bad guys paint us to be.

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« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2005, 02:38:57 PM »
Quote from: Blackburn
Quote from: Phantom Warrior
Quote from: Blackburn
Like I said- I'm happy for them to do their own thang. They should just be doing their own thang knowing that if they ever cross us again, Jerusalem becomes fused glass. That'd probably end up actually bringing us some actual peace in the middle east.
Because it's Israel that starts all the wars in the Middle East, including that one right in 1948 when they were barely a state.  NOT everyone else.
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the Muslim Extremists having one less thing to whine about.
Given that Muslim extremists have an infinite number of complaints against the West I doubt eliminating that one would do much.
I'll add that without Israel the Arab countries would be at each other's throats, so there is not "peace dividend".
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MicroBalrog

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« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2005, 10:12:15 PM »
Pork/Restaurants, yes. Even despite the various discriminating legislation and regulation against this.

Buses on Shabbat, why no.


And I live in Ashdod.
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« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2005, 12:51:08 AM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog
Pork/Restaurants, yes. Even despite the various discriminating legislation and regulation against this.

Buses on Shabbat, why no.


And I live in Ashdod.
What?

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« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2005, 04:30:08 AM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog
Pork/Restaurants, yes. Even despite the various discriminating legislation and regulation against this.

Buses on Shabbat, why no.


And I live in Ashdod.
I am not fam,iliar with the situation in Ashdod but I know that in other parts of Israel busses do run on Shabbos.
So, in a Jewish state inhabited mostly by Jews one can pretty easily buy a commodity that is contrary to Jewish law and equally go to a public facility and violate Jewish law with no(legal) consequences.  And that doesn't sound secular to you?
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richyoung

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« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2005, 05:11:28 AM »
Quote
For starters, did I miss a public announcement from the surrounding hostile governments that they no longer want to wipe Israel off the face of the planet?
Just for the record, are you hopping down the "ends justify the means" bunny trail?  Because I remember an Austrian paperhanger who had the same idea...
Quote
Have they stopped paying the families of homicide bombers money in exchange for their acts of terrorism?  For that matter, have they stopped exporting homicide bombers and militants to Iraq?
Who TAUGHT the Arabs terrorism?  Do the words Hagana, Irgun, and Stern Gang ring a bell? The US, (remember, the country Israel ATTACKED in 1967 and SOLD OUT in the late 70's), carries plenty of freight in the world wide struggle against terrorism - a tactic well used by the founders of Isreal up through the Lavon affair and the killing of Gerald Bull (as far as we know...).  It's hard to take serious Israel's cries of terrorism when the same countries leaders used to roll barrels of dynamite and nails into Arab markets out of speeding trucks pre-48, and asassinate people in other countries, ( Bull, the Munich killers, etc.).

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Why oh why would Israel have to take military action to prevent a hostile foreign power with avowed intentions of their distruction from gaining control of the most crucial shipping venue in the continent?  Whatever it might have been, it must have been inconsequential.  I mean, both England and France were part of that international action.  Obviously there can't have been any reason for that, either.
I missed it - explainto me WHY it is any of ISRAEL'S business if Egypt nationalizes a business inside its borders.  Sounds like an internal matter to me....

Quote
Using your own logic, then the US must be the aggressor and evil for going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq for those exact same reasons.
Attacks on naval vessels, (USS Cole), aircraft, government buildings, (9/11), and embassies are considered acts of war.  If a country harbors parties that are engaging in acts of war, and is unwilling, or unable, to control them, that country forfeits its neutral status - (Panch Villa punitive expidition, Afghanistan, Barbary Coast pirates, Cambodia, Laos, etc.)  I will be the first to admit that some of these same issues apply to Israels opponents.

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Why is there this double standard across the world that the Jewish people alone have no right to self-defense?
Nobody has a problem with legitimate self-defense, especially when proportionatte to the causus belli.  What, pray tell, was Isral "self defending" in 1956?  When it deliberately (as proven by intercepted radio communications) attacked a US ship with UNMARKED fighter jets, followed up by torpedo boats and helicopters full of combat troops?  Israel wants to have it both ways: get the first lick in, AND claim self-defense.  Thats tough logic to chop...
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If you want the people of Israel to not actively engage in intelligence against us, then maybe we should allow them the freedom to engage in the same levels of international militance that we are supporting for our own country.
Fine.  Just get out of Uncle Sam's billfold, and knock yourselves out.
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Why can't I get it out of our head from Desert Storm as we pressured and manipulated Israel into ALLOWING Iraq
Funny.  I remember it differently.  No body ALLOWED Sadaam to launch home-improved Scud-Bs into Israel OR Saudi Arabia.  It was a capability he had without NEEDING permission from ANYONE, nor was any granted.  We did suggest Israel migh want to POSTPONE retaliating, in order that we could keep the multinational coalition together that was about to put a STOP to the Scud launching, among other things.  I also remember we rushed a Patriot battery to Israel to protect it - a battery that we could have used to protect our own troops, many of whom later died to Scud attack.
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to launch scuds into their residential districts so that we could follow our own agendas.
...said agenda being to STOP the launches, among other things...

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You want Israel to trust us, well, we haven't exactly been the most trustworthy or compassionate allies.
Trust is EARNED.  Remind me - how many Israelli Naval vessels has the US deliberately attacked in international waters?  How many Israelli defense secrets have we "traded" to, say Syria?  How many Israeli citizens have our intelligence agencies assasinated in foreign countries?  In return, even Israel's OWN GOVERNMENT acknowledges that without Nixon sending massive resupply directly out of US war-fighting stocks, on US C-5 aircraft, Isreal would have collapsed in 73.   You want trust?  Compassion?  How about TRYING those responsible for the war crime of the attack on the USS Liberty?

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And for the past 15 years we've been riding their butts to live in peace with the militant islamofascists who support the murder of their women and children in public places.
...because, what Israel WAS doing was working SO WELL at achieving peace and stability in the region, you know, that we just HAD to stop it...
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I'm at a total loss to understand how you have arrived at this blatant double-standard.
No double standard - I take it personally when ANY country attacks our military, ESPECIALLY without a declaration fo war first.  I also don't like a foriegn country taking it upon itself to put ME, MY COUNTRY, and MY COUNTRY'S MILITARY, (which both my father and uncle were in at the time) in danger as a barganing chip to increase immigration.  That's not a right Israel has, under ANY moral standard.
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« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2005, 05:41:45 AM »
Were you even alive in 1967?
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richyoung

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« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2005, 09:07:37 AM »
Yes - and had an uncle in the Navy and a father in Vietnam at the time.  Now that I've answered your question, answer one of mine - what does whether I was alive at thetime have to do AT ALL with the facts?
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Phantom Warrior

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« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2005, 10:05:46 AM »
Quote
Who TAUGHT the Arabs terrorism?  Do the words Hagana, Irgun, and Stern Gang ring a bell? The US, (remember, the country Israel ATTACKED in 1967 and SOLD OUT in the late 70's), carries plenty of freight in the world wide struggle against terrorism - a tactic well used by the founders of Isreal up through the Lavon affair and the killing of Gerald Bull (as far as we know...).  It's hard to take serious Israel's cries of terrorism when the same countries leaders used to roll barrels of dynamite and nails into Arab markets out of speeding trucks pre-48, and asassinate people in other countries, ( Bull, the Munich killers, etc.).
Who TAUGHT the Arabs terrorism?  The majority of terrorism has been performed by the Arabs, not the Israelis.  The Haganah, in particular, was formed primarily to defend against Arabs, not to engage in terrorism.  The British cooperated informally w/ the Haganah during the Arab riots in the 1930s to help protect British interests and control the Arab uprising.  Irgun and the Stern Gang did engage in straight terrorism, but they were splinter groups.  Their decision to splinter was based on the Haganah's policy of restraint.

The eventual role of these competing organizations is telling.  Haganah was transformed into the Israeli Defense Forces while the splinter groups were outlawed and disbanded.
Wiki on Haganah

If you look at the last 50 years who do you see hijacking airplanes, bombing U.S. interests (Marine Barracks in Lebanon, World Trade Center in 1993 AND 2001, the USS Cole, et. al.), and sending suicide bombers into malls, restaurants, and stores?  Not the Israelis.

Oh, interesting tidbit about the Lavon Affair.  Regarding the bombs the Israelis left in a post office in Alexandria, the U.S. Information Agency libraries in Alexandria and Cairo, and a British-owned theater:
"The bombs themselves were homemade, consisting of bags containing acid placed over nitroglycerine. The bombs were inserted into books, and placed on the shelves of the libraries just before closing time. Several hours later, as the acid ate through the bags, the bombs would explode.

They did little damage to the targets and caused no injuries or deaths."
Wiki on Lavon Affair

That sounds like some serious freight to me.  Call me crazy, but I don't remember the last time the Arabs left a bomb in a building right before closing time that didn't cause any injury or death.  All I can remember are the ones they've carried into crowded civilians areas at peak traffic times and touched off.


Once again, the Israelis have engaged in plenty of questionable activity.  But they are also surrounded by countries that want them exterminated and have been shafted by the international community more times than I care to count.  I don't approve of everything they've done, but there is more than enough blame to spread around.

richyoung

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« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2005, 12:20:58 PM »
Quote from: Phantom Warrior
They did little damage to the targets and caused no injuries or deaths."
Wiki on Lavon Affair

That sounds like some serious freight to me.  Call me crazy, but I don't remember the last time the Arabs left a bomb in a building right before closing time that didn't cause any injury or death.  All I can remember are the ones they've carried into crowded civilians areas at peak traffic times and touched off.
..and how many American service men would have DIED in the US/Egyptian war they were trying to bring about?  Just because their BOMBS didn't kill anyone, doesn't mean the end result of their plan wouldn't have been dead Americans, and others, as well.

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Once again, the Israelis have engaged in plenty of questionable activity.
Here we agree.  To use the US as an example, when WE have a My Lai or an Al Grahib, we investigate and punish those who do wrong. Israel either sweeps it under the rug or gives them medals.

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But they are also surrounded by countries that want them exterminated and have been shafted by the international community more times than I care to count.  I don't approve of everything they've done, but there is more than enough blame to spread around.
I expect them to BE HONORABLE.  To DO RIGHT.  To NOT BETRAY FRIENDS AND ALLIES.  If they will do that, there will be no SHORTAGE of people supporting them - including me.  Heck I support them NOW, and think the term "Palastinian" is a cruel hoax - but I do NOT support them blindly, and there IS a LIMIT to how much "deja moo" I'm willing to put with from them.
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Israel?
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2005, 12:32:38 PM »
Quote from: Blackburn
Clearly, he can't answer you based on your facts. I see the same thing with blissninnies being confronted with logical arguments against gun control.

I'd like to note that were it not for our massive support that ensured their survival, and for their repeated actions (USS Liberty, espionage, assassinations, etc- I'm not going to dignify the more wacked out anti-israel theories) this thread would not exist.

But the way things are, if they were another nation, say in south america, I'm pretty sure Rabbi would be clamoring for cutting them off. Except, they're "Israel".

In my opinion, if their nation is now secularized, perhaps they are no longer deserving the respect accorded the biblical israel, or the freedom fighters of 1947.
Typically you are incorrect.

All the "facts" marshalled here are worthless.  The British invaded us, twice, burning our capitol one of those times and we still supported them in the Falklands War.  Silly?  Yes, but no more so than the "facts" being bandied about here.
Foreign aid is not doled out on the basis of who is "deserving" any more than on the basis of who has been naughty and who has been nice.  It is doled out based on how much leverage we want in that country, how much the promise of such aid will influence that country's policies, and a host of other considerations.  Already pointed out was the most, if not all, of Israel's aid actually gets comes in the form of credits and gets spent here.
 But among top recipients of aid we find such paragons as Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, and Sudan.  Are any of these really our pals?  Are any of them "deserving" of support?  Do any of them support us in the UN on any consistent basis?
So what is going on in these posts?  Why does Richyoung have such a burning desire to prove Israel is our enemy, dredging up 40 year old incidents?  I don't know.
And fwiw, I am no supporter of Israel and think they, and we, would be much better off getting out of Uncle Sam's pocket.
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