Author Topic: More ways to kill the US Economy  (Read 1961 times)

makattak

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More ways to kill the US Economy
« on: May 04, 2009, 12:03:35 PM »
Looks like the Obama administration is hard at work trying to prolong the recession:

http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2009/05/04/obama_announces_plan_to_close_tax_loopholes

Quote
President Barack Obama plans changes to tax policy certain to be unpopular with corporations with international divisions and individuals who use tax havens.

Obama's two-part plan, which he will announce later Monday at the White House, also embraces 800 additional federal agents to enforce the tax code.

The president's proposal would eliminate some tax deductions for companies that earn profits in countries with low tax rates, as well as consider U.S. citizens who use tax havens in the Bahamas or Cayman Islands guilty of violating U.S. tax laws. If Obama wins congressional approval for the changes _ and he faces a challenge on Capitol Hill _ the new enforcement initiative could yield $210 billion in tax revenue over the next decade.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was to join Obama for the comments. The White House released details of the plan earlier Monday.

White House officials acknowledged the political challenges facing the plan. The administration won't seek a complete repeal of overseas tax benefits and, although the rule changes are narrower than some anticipated, business leaders still oppose them as a tax hike. Obama aides countered that the plan is a step toward the massive overhaul of international financial regulations that the president has promised.

In exchange, Obama said he was willing to make permanent a research tax credit that was to expire at the end of the year and is popular with businesses. Officials estimate that making the tax credits permanent would cost taxpayers $74.5 billion over the next decade.

But administration aides said that 75 percent of those tax credits pay workers' wages; given the struggling economy, aides were reluctant to do anything that could add more Americans to the unemployment rolls.

It was small comfort. Companies which shelter profits in international accounts stand to lose billions if Obama's plan becomes law. Under the existing regulation, those companies pay taxes only if they bring the profits back to the U.S. If they keep the profits offshore, they can defer paying taxes indefinitely _ and many do.

Obama's plan wouldn't go into effect until 2011; Obama has said he does not want to tinker with tax revenues until his $787 billion stimulus plan has run its course. The proposals, however, were far from complete, and aides said this was just one piece of the administration's plan for a sweeping overhaul.

First up: Companies won't be able to write-off domestic expenses for generating profits abroad. For instance, administrative tasks performed in New York for a London office would not be tax deductible in the United States.

Administration officials depicted the move as a way to close unfair tax loopholes that encouraged companies to send jobs overseas. They argued that if it costs the same amount to do business in, say, Ireland as in Iowa, why not do it entirely in Des Moines? Officials said Obama would characterize the move as a way to keep jobs in the United States and fight a system that is rigged against U.S. companies who keep their entire business operation domestic.

Obama also planned to ask Congress to crack down on tax havens and implement a major shift in the way courts view guilt.
Under Obama's proposal, Americans would have to prove they were not breaking U.S. tax laws when they send money to banks that don't cooperate with tax officials. It essentially would reverse a long-held assumption of innocence in U.S. courts.

If financial institutions cooperate with Washington and disclose details when asked, Americans could invest anywhere they like.

Obama officials also said they would close a Clinton-era provision that would cost $87 billion over the next decade by letting U.S. companies "check the box" and treat international subsidiaries as mere branch offices. Officials said it was meant as a paperwork shortcut that is now a widely used and perfectly legal way to avoid paying billions in taxes on international operations.

I put the reason for all this in red. I put the dangerous changes in blue.

Of course the Obama administration is touting this as "paying their fair share." To me it illustrates the folly of creating tax "loopholes." They are put in because some politicians realize how much higher taxes will kill business. However, rather than fighting for lower tax rates, they try to hide the breaks in "loopholes". Afterwards, their opponents will come back and remove the loopholes claiming that companies "aren't paying their fair share."

This is how Obama thinks he will pay for his plans. It's not "raising taxes"; it's just eliminating some tax breaks. (I'm sure he has more of the same planned on the way).

I love their idea of removing the tax breaks for work done for foreign offices in the US. And then they think it will increase employment here. No, instead all the work will be done in that lower tax country. But apparently the people in the administrations aren't smart enough to realize that.

Next they are putting the burden of proof on individuals to PROVE THEY AREN'T BREAKING THE LAW. No more assumption of innocence.

All this will do is make it more costly to operate within the United States. Does the administration not realize we are no longer the only place with good regulations and low taxes?

Keep killing the goose with the golden eggs, Washington.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

buzz_knox

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Re: More ways to kill the US Economy
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 12:21:03 PM »

Next they are putting the burden of proof on individuals to PROVE THEY AREN'T BREAKING THE LAW. No more assumption of innocence.

This is the current state of the law with regards to tax cases.  The IRS starts out with a presumption in its favor that you owe the money and you have to prove that you do not.  The idea is that the IRS is the subject matter expert so it is most likely correct, and you have the best knowledge of your taxes so that you should be able to prove them wrong (or know that you are in the wrong so you have an incentive to come clean early).  The change Obama wants is to create a similar presumption but based solely on imputed knowledge of what the third party (the bank) is or is not doing.  Every person will have to do due diligence to determine whether or not the bank meets the US definition of "cooperating with officials," which could change from day to day. 

This is one of the biggest nightmares to even be suggested by this administration. 

longeyes

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Re: More ways to kill the US Economy
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 01:33:58 PM »
Sure, let's crack down on tax "evaders" rather than tax makers.

The purpose of this society is not the well-being of its citizens, it's to maximize tax revenues.

But what about those tax evaders in this Administration? 
"Domari nolo."

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Boomhauer

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Re: More ways to kill the US Economy
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 06:53:10 PM »
Quote
But what about those tax evaders in this Administration?

Move along, nothing to see here. These aren't the 'droids you're looking for.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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Dannyboy

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Re: More ways to kill the US Economy
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 06:59:25 PM »
Sure, let's crack down on tax "evaders" rather than tax makers.

Not evaders but avoiders.  There's a difference. 
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

longeyes

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Re: More ways to kill the US Economy
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 11:54:10 PM »
The only difference should be their cell block number.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

makattak

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Re: More ways to kill the US Economy
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 12:31:32 AM »
The only difference should be their cell block number.

Right. We need to POUND those companies and drain every drop of blood from their fat-cat wallets!

Viva la revolucion! Down with the Proletariat!... or is it Bourgeoisie? Eh, screw it, just kill the rich people!



Or perhaps you could realize that these company's profits get taxed when they make them and then taxed AGAIN when they are paid to investors. Oh yeah, how EVIIIIIL they are to try to avoid one of those taxations through legal means. STRING THEM UP! THEY'RE FOLLOWING THE LAW!!!!
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

longeyes

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Re: More ways to kill the US Economy
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2009, 01:31:44 AM »
I have no intention to see anyone but wrongdoers get punished.  You misunderstood my intent.  I realize by "avoider" you meant those who are already paying their legal due.  My point was that we all exist only to fund the endless needs of the government, and no doubt you agree with that.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.