Author Topic: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits  (Read 44980 times)

zahc

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,797
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2009, 09:43:16 AM »
I'm pretty sure my friend has a dual Canadian/US citizenship. He was born in Canada and now lives here.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
--Tallpine

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2009, 09:44:42 AM »
I think the only hang up that may occur is related to the time when the young Barack Obama was going to school in Indonesia.

I still don't understand why the Obama team put so much energy and money into shrouding his birth certificate, school records, etc.

Other than that, he will be found to be American born and I bet his father's name will be blank or worse it will say bastard or something like that. :)

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

Seenterman

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2009, 12:03:20 PM »
Quite a few US politicians hold duel Israeli and US Citizenship.

Should any elected officials be allowed to hold duel citizenship?
Or should just the President not be allowed duel citizenship?

(Not claiming that Obama is a duel citizen with Kenya or wherever)

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,632
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2009, 01:04:25 PM »
Even if BHO is found to be unqualified, what do you want to bet there will be a "public outcry" to change the policy retroactively?
Doesn't the Constitution prohibit ex-post-facto laws, other than those involving taxes?
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2009, 01:41:32 PM »
Doesn't the Constitution prohibit ex-post-facto laws, other than those involving taxes?

The Constitution prohibits many things.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2009, 02:37:50 PM »
The Constitution prohibits many things.

What is this "Constitution" of which you speak ??
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 05:06:02 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2009, 04:29:22 PM »
Obama is too big to fail.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

sanglant

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,475
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2009, 06:30:56 PM »
Obama is too big to fail.

ewwww!  :lol:

slingshot

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,031
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2009, 07:18:33 PM »
Quote
Obama is too big to fail.

So was General Motors, AIG, Citibank and others.  We'll see about failure.
It shall be as it was in the past... Not with dreams, but with strength and with courage... Shall a nation be molded to last. (The Plainsman, 1936)

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,397
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2009, 12:56:38 AM »
No, it's OK.  We bailed out GM, so there's no chance they'll go bankrupt now. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2009, 11:37:41 AM »
No one is too big to fail, but when someone of this kind of power fails he usually takes his nation with him for a good while.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2009, 08:48:51 PM »
The birth certificate is merely the endpoint of a number of documents which have been scrubbed from the public record.  It seems Obama's paper trail is simply unavailable.  I don't need tinfoil to want to know why.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2009, 08:59:28 PM »
As an outside observer it seems to me there have been several cases in US history where, though there has not been a real conspiracy, the ineptness of the US government/politicians/other figures in handling the events had served to affirm rumors of a conspiracy where there haven't been such rumors before. IF that makes any sense.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Regolith

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,171
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2009, 06:20:29 AM »
As an outside observer it seems to me there have been several cases in US history where, though there has not been a real conspiracy, the ineptness of the US government/politicians/other figures in handling the events had served to affirm rumors of a conspiracy where there haven't been such rumors before. IF that makes any sense.

There's a quote attributed to a couple of different authors that goes something like

Quote
"In fact, one thing that I have noticed...is that all of these conspiracy theories depend on the perpetrators being endlessly clever. I think you'll find the facts also work if you assume everyone is endlessly stupid."

That's usually my take on things. 
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2009, 04:57:10 PM »
What is needed is about 1000 + military people to file a class action suit under the same grounds so they protect themselve from being treated as illegal combatents.


Retired general, lieutenant colonel join reservist’s lawsuit over Obama's birth status
General, lieutenant colonel join suit similar to 2 already thrown out
Thursday, Jul. 16, 2009

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/778482.html
By Lily Gordon - lgordon@ledger-enquirer.com
A controversial suit brought by a U.S. Army reservist has been joined by a retired Army two-star general and an active reserve Air Force lieutenant colonel.

Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook filed the suit July 8 in federal court here asking for conscientious objector status and a preliminary injunction based upon his belief that President Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States and is therefore ineligible to serve as president of the United States and commander-in-chief of the U.S. Armed Forces.

However, before the issue got to court, Cook’s orders to deploy to Afghanistan were revoked. Lt. Col. Maria Quon, a public affairs officer with the U.S. Army Human Resources Command-St. Louis, said Tuesday that Cook was no longer expected to report Wednesday to MacDill Air Force Base in Florida for mobilization to active duty. Cook, who claims he is now the victim of retaliation due to his suit, received his mobilization orders to report for active duty at MacDill on Wednesday. From there, he was to go to Fort Benning on Saturday for deployment to Afghanistan.

Cook is an Individual Mobilization Augmentee. This means he’s a reserve soldier assigned to an active component unit consisting of active duty soldiers instead of a reserve unit, which is composed entirely of reserve soldiers. He is assigned to the U.S. Army Element of U.S. Southern Command.

Last week, Cook filed a request in federal court seeking a temporary restraining order and status as a conscientious objector represented by California attorney Orly Taitz.

The government, in its response to the suit, claims that Cook’s suit is “moot” in that he already has been told he doesn’t have to go to Afghanistan, so the relief he is seeking has been granted.

“The Commanding General of SOCCENT (U.S. Special Operations Central Command) has determined that he does not want the services of Major Cook, and has revoked his deployment orders,” the response states.

In a pleading revised after the revocation of Cook’s orders, Taitz argues that the application for preliminary injunction is not moot and that retired Maj. Gen. Carol Dean Childers and active U.S. Air Force reservist Lt. Col. David Earl Graeff have joined the suit “because it is a matter of unparalleled public interest and importance and because it is clearly a matter arising from issues of a recurring nature that will escape review unless the Court exercises its discretionary jurisdiction.”

Cook’s resubmitted Application for Preliminary Injunction is meant to encompass the possibility of Cook receiving future orders for deployment as well as to address and prevent “negative collateral consequences such as retaliation against Major Stefan Frederick Cook ...”

As to the retaliation issue, the revised suit states Cook lost his job at Simtech Inc., a corporation that does Department of Defense contracting in the field of information technology/systems integration, because of the suit. It also states that Cook has been subjected to “gossip” from people who believed Cook was “manipulating his deployment orders to create a platform for political purposes.”

Taitz, who has challenged the legitimacy of Obama’s presidency in other courts, filed the original suit with the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Georgia. Two similar suits have previously been thrown out of federal court.

In the filing, Cook states he “would be acting in violation of international law by engaging in military actions outside the United States under this President’s command. … simultaneously subjecting himself to possible prosecution as a war criminal by the faithful execution of these duties.”

A hearing to discuss Cook’s requests is scheduled to take place in federal court here this morning at 9:30 a.m.


FTA84

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2009, 05:38:27 PM »
I will admit there are some curiousities to the behavior of the administration, i.e., the post above trying to remove standing from this gentleman.

On the other hand, I have found that this conspiracy theory website contradicts itself in confusing manners.  It has been a week since I read the story about the "counterfeit" selective service registration.  However, at the time, they claimed that there was a form, left over from 2000 or so, (factory) stamped with a number for year 2008 ("08...") which was appended to ("808...) to prove his registration was done in 2008, not 1980.  Interesting, the Obama team found some 2000 form, 8 years post-dated, to submit as a fake. That or they intentionally put an 08 date on a 2000 form, which makes even less sense.

What I find more likely about this document, and the so called "fake" birth certificate, is a likelyhood that the government document standards are not up to par.  Different offices using different templates, ect.  Way more likely than a presidential candidate having his documents forged by a 10 year with MS paint.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2009, 09:24:36 PM »
FTA, my favorite part is that the same government(s) at the local, state, and federal government that are deemed to be incompetent could suddenly pull off a conspiracy to make him president....
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

tyme

  • expat
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,056
  • Did you know that dolphins are just gay sharks?
    • TFL Library
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2009, 09:51:39 PM »
Quote
Should any elected officials be allowed to hold duel citizenship?
Or should just the President not be allowed duel citizenship?
Arguably, there's a conflict of interest whenever anyone holds dual citizenship.  Countries are sovereign.  They can declare war whenever they want, on whoever they want, no matter how unlikely it might be.

Countries may make demands on their citizens, the most obvious being a draft.  Two countries drafting the same person would be a problem, even if those countries are not at war with each other.

The idea that one person may vote, serve on juries, and enjoy other privileges of citizenship in two different countries seems a bit contrary to the principle of fair/equal representation if you ask me.

A person should be a citizen of one country.  Another country (country X) can, if it wants, accept certain foreign citizens as permanent residents with few questions asked.  They could also, quite reasonably, allow citizens of country Y to renounce that citizenship and become citizens of country X, with few questions asked.  But granting citizenship without requiring renunciation of all other citizenship is not a very wise or reasonable thing to do IMO, and anyone holding multiple citizenship should (IMO) have his/her motives questioned.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 09:55:05 PM by tyme »
Support Range Voting.
End Software Patents

"Four people are dead.  There isn't time to talk to the police."  --Sherlock (BBC)

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2009, 08:27:21 PM »
The birth certificate is merely the endpoint of a number of documents which have been scrubbed from the public record.  It seems Obama's paper trail is simply unavailable.  I don't need tinfoil to want to know why.

Let's be fair: the documents are there, you just don't accept them.  Why would having a scan on the internet of the original handwritten piece of paper be any more satisfying to the Obama citizenship doubters than the certificate issued by the state which already affirms its existence?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2009, 08:53:57 PM »
Quote
Let's be fair: the documents are there, you just don't accept them.
I'm a better judge of what's in my mind than you could ever be.

That said, my inclination is to accept his birth claims as fact.  I'm inclined to believe its all about nothing.  I'm inclined to accept Hawaii's paperwork as a clear cut statement of his American citizenship.

I do perk up when I hear that a lot of ancillary documentation just happens to be unavailable for view.  My curiosity is further piqued when I learn the unavailability of documentation just happens to be related to things like passports and student aide and scholarship applications, all of which are directly related to the question of citizenship.

I can accept one point being an anomaly.  I get real interested when I see a series of anomalies all based around a common question.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2009, 08:56:34 PM »
Let's be fair: the documents are there, you just don't accept them.  Why would having a scan on the internet of the original handwritten piece of paper be any more satisfying to the Obama citizenship doubters than the certificate issued by the state which already affirms its existence?
If we're being fair, we need to recognize that all we really have is their word that the documents are there and that they're legit.  All we've really seen is a scan on the internet, which many folks believe to be dubious.  Some folks would like more convincing evidence, including the full chain of documents that seem to have been disappeared.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the citizenry to ask their President to fully resolve any questions about the legality of his citizenship.  It would be a very trivial matter to resolve, too, assuming the documents really are all there and fully legit.  The documents should be unsealed and released publicly for all to see.

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2009, 09:00:52 PM »
Waitone,

So what document is it that you think is unavailable?  Clearly not his birth certificate; that's scanned online and was already used to secure a passport for Obama.

What document is it that you think is missing that's related to student aid, scholarships, and passports??

Headless,

That's my point.  If you don't think a scan on the internet is good, how are you going to be convinced by a scan of the original, 1961 piece of paper?  Does it have to be circulated in original via chain mail to every "birther"?

And what are these documents that disappeared?

There's a birth certificate, good enough for a passport or any government function, available to the public.  There are birth notices in newspapers from the time period to support the authenticity of that certificate.  What possible information could come out that would add anything to that? 

And if you doubt it already, what about the new information (which will be scanned/reported/somehow through an intermediary, just like the already released birth certificate) would convince you and why?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2009, 09:45:46 PM »
i was born in 59 in the exact same place   why is his so different than mine?  besides the fact that mine was a territorial certificate why is there so much less info on his?  and why does it not resemble my more recent copies that they sent me?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2009, 12:43:24 AM »
i was born in 59 in the exact same place   why is his so different than mine?  besides the fact that mine was a territorial certificate why is there so much less info on his?  and why does it not resemble my more recent copies that they sent me?

[tinfoil_beanie]Well, they had to get Dan Rather to format them in MS Word 2003 and he foolishly used the default formatting.  You'd think he'd learn by now...[/tinfoil_beanie]
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

restorer

  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
Re: MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2009, 01:54:02 AM »
What I'm having trouble accepting is the fact that there is apparently no one in our Federal government bureaucracy who is either able or willing to prove that he was properly vetted for the Presidency. Who is in charge of determining eligibility? Can anyone claim they are a citizen and run for election or do you have to prove it to somebody? If anyone vetted him (or any candidate) they should be able to cough up the documentation with no problem. This is basic, "this-is-a-football" sort of thing. That it has come to this state says a great deal about the corruption and inefficiency in our system. This shouldn't even be an issue. If he was not eligible his application should have been rejected. If he is eligible then the documentation should be available through the Freedom of Information Act.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 01:59:00 AM by restorer »