Author Topic: I Been Vista'd  (Read 2160 times)

roo_ster

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I Been Vista'd
« on: August 03, 2009, 06:24:42 PM »
Got a new lappy for the wife.  It runs Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit.

NOT an improvement over WinXP Pro, administration-wise.  What a PITA.

I have spent WAY too much time turning off all the gimcrackery that suck resources needlessly.  I can't say I've made it good, just less awful.

Setting all ownership to "SYSTEM" and requiring me to change ownership to admin is sand-poundingly stupid.  I'd like to have a little time alone in a room with the schmoe who made that call.

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Declaration Day

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2009, 06:34:24 PM »
I've never owned a Vista box.   All of my computers are either XP or Ubuntu.  I'm going to have to buy a more mainstream computer (or two) soon, because my kids keep complaining that this or that won't work on XP or Linux. 

Keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that Windows 7 is tolerable.  =|

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2009, 07:01:46 PM »
My sister has gone through two Vista equipped laptops over the past week- a Gateway and an Asus. Both locked up solid. I am not impressed. She brought the first one w/o talking to me, then when she went back to the store to get her refund, she let them talk her into the Asus. I explicitly told her she should get her money from the store and run, and she could get something better for cheaper off the internet.

Now she's talking about spending money she can't afford to for a Macbook.

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2009, 07:06:19 PM »
I have been vista'd since not long after it came out, not by choice.  My old comp died a horrible death and after all the money I spent upgrading it, off the shelf is fine by me.  What you will hate the most is all the "are you sure you want to do this" pop ups.
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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2009, 07:08:13 PM »

You got vista'd?  Ouch.  Only two solutions, put a bullet through the hard drive or two bullets through your cranium.

Another less common, more laborous, and very technical solution is possible but not recommended.  The following works on 'Vista Only' laptops.  Get very very detailed specs on every component on the laptop.  Research each and every component, and grab XP versions of the drivers from other OEM's.  Try to unpackage the driver packages, strip out the GUI crap, and snag JUST the drivers.  It's a PITA.  Then go grab a copy of nLite.  Grab one of your XP disks and start walking through nLite.  Strip out all extra languages, generic drivers (besides the obvious core stuff), etc.  Add in JUST your drivers.  Burn to CD.  Nuke the laptop's partition(s), install XP from said disk.  First shot will probably suck.  Figure out any driver issues, rerun nLite and correct what you must. 

I did that for an engineer that put a Sony Vaio for his wife that was strictly, strictly Vista only.  I charged him $200 bucks, which pissed him off like no tomorrow.  Until his wife fired up the laptop.  I don't know for sure what happened after that, but the dude thought I was the best person on the planet for weeks and seemed quite cheerful.  Guess she liked it.  Machine went from cold to fully functional in 40 seconds.  And it was a friggin speed demon.   
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Boomhauer

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2009, 07:11:18 PM »
Quote
Another less common, more laborous, and very technical solution is possible but not recommended.  The following works on 'Vista Only' laptops.  Get very very detailed specs on every component on the laptop.  Research each and every component, and grab XP versions of the drivers from other OEM's.  Try to unpackage the driver packages, strip out the GUI crap, and snag JUST the drivers.  It's a PITA.  Then go grab a copy of nLite.  Grab one of your XP disks and start walking through nLite.  Strip out all extra languages, generic drivers (besides the obvious core stuff), etc.  Add in JUST your drivers.  Burn to CD.  Nuke the laptop's partition(s), install XP from said disk.  First shot will probably suck.  Figure out any driver issues, rerun nLite and correct what you must.

When I try stuff like that, swapping out drivers, etc, then I simply screw it up and it never works right. Hell, I can't even update drivers without something going wrong.

Vista makes me scream with a primal rage.

I'd happily pay a competent tech $200 bucks to do the work you describe. The trouble is, like seeking out a gunsmith, finding a truly competent tech.



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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2009, 07:23:40 PM »
Got a new lappy for the wife.  It runs Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit.

NOT an improvement over WinXP Pro, administration-wise.  What a PITA.

I have spent WAY too much time turning off all the gimcrackery that suck resources needlessly.  I can't say I've made it good, just less awful.

Setting all ownership to "SYSTEM" and requiring me to change ownership to admin is sand-poundingly stupid.  I'd like to have a little time alone in a room with the schmoe who made that call.

Get in line pal,  =D  there's a bunch of us still waiting our turn with that individual.   :mad:  I bought a 12" HP tablet several months after everything started shipping with Vista on it, never could get the PITA factor down no matter what was done.    The best thing I did was to "upgrade" it to XP.  Currently testing Windows 7, some of the features that I don't use aren't working yet (more than likely driver related) but it is a dream compared to what Pista Vista was.

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2009, 07:33:48 PM »
I'd happily pay a competent tech $200 bucks to do the work you describe. The trouble is, like seeking out a gunsmith, finding a truly competent tech.



Good luck. 

Seriously, I only took the job because I was on good terms with the guy and I wanted a challenge.  My policy on Vista is simple.  I do not touch it, unless I owe you a favor.  Even then, expect to pay 3x what I'd charge for XP.  That job took 10 hours and I consider that a HUGE accomplishment all things considering.
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MillCreek

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2009, 08:35:17 PM »
Oddly enough, both my HP desktop and Compaq laptop that came with Vista work just fine for me.  I turned off all the Aero and visual enhancement stuff, disabled user control and set it to 'best performance' settings.  Everything works just peachy.  I still have three XP laptops and an XP desktop. 

I would not have chosen Vista, but they came with the new boxes.  But I have certainly tweaked it to my liking.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 08:57:49 PM »
Setting all ownership to "SYSTEM" and requiring me to change ownership to admin is sand-poundingly stupid.  I'd like to have a little time alone in a room with the schmoe who made that call. 

I'm not sure what that means, but it reminds me of the way Ubuntu requires you to give your root password every time you sneeze. 
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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 09:24:33 PM »
I'm not sure what that means, but it reminds me of the way Ubuntu requires you to give your root password every time you sneeze. 

It's the same idea, which any modern operating system should require.  It's been considered a good practice for about 10 years now if not longer.  It's just a real PITA with Vista because there's so much software that needs Admin access.

Perd Hapley

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 10:41:00 PM »
Aaaah.  I figured jfruser would tell me the difference, but he's probably still sputtering with rage that I would dare compare Vista to the Holy Linux. 
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roo_ster

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 11:23:49 PM »
Aaaah.  I figured jfruser would tell me the difference, but he's probably still sputtering with rage that I would dare compare Vista to the Holy Linux. 

I am a recent user of Ubuntu and am not convinced that ubiquitous sudo and no root logon is the way to go. 

Most my linux jockeying has been Redhat-derivatives.  They have a proper root/administrator logon.  Also, Ubuntu is not nearly as retarded as Vista in it implementation, which requires that root/admin first take ownership before it can do anything to the directories in question, to include read the contents.
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roo_ster

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2009, 07:42:52 AM »
At least Vista has an AHCI SATA driver by default, on the install disk.

I will never understand why Microsoft didn't add AHCI drivers to the SP2 OEM cd (or the SP3 one, but that would have been too little too late).  It's beyond infuriating to have to screw around with extra drivers during install.  Why couldn't MS get their act together?

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I am a recent user of Ubuntu and am not convinced that ubiquitous sudo and no root logon is the way to go.

Most my linux jockeying has been Redhat-derivatives.  They have a proper root/administrator logon

What is the point of logging in as root when you could just open an xterm and use `sudo -i` ?

It makes no sense to me why you'd even want to.  You have to quit your X session if you want to login as root through xdm (and the root user won't have any UI customization you've set up for your normal user).  If you switch to a text console to do the root login, you lose the GUI environment.
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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2009, 09:25:45 AM »
I promise not to duck.

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2009, 05:32:46 PM »
Got a new lappy for the wife.  It runs Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit.

NOT an improvement over WinXP Pro, administration-wise.  What a PITA.

I have spent WAY too much time turning off all the gimcrackery that suck resources needlessly.  I can't say I've made it good, just less awful.

Setting all ownership to "SYSTEM" and requiring me to change ownership to admin is sand-poundingly stupid.  I'd like to have a little time alone in a room with the schmoe who made that call.


We also just received (like, yesterday) a new laptop for the wife, and it is likewise our first exposure to Vista. If you can spare some time to provide some hints as to what I could/should turn off to reduce wasted overhead, PLEASE send me a PM. If you do, remember I'm not an IT person, so it has to be things that a mere mortal can do without trashing the system.

It's a Toshiba Satellite L500, IIRC.
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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2009, 06:03:15 PM »
I am a recent user of Ubuntu and am not convinced that ubiquitous sudo and no root logon is the way to go. 

Ubuntu's sudo obsession and Vista's UAC are both noble-minded attempts to protect the user from his own stupidity, both of which run up against the same downfall:  desensitization.

If the typical Vista user has to click on the UAC box too many times, sooner or later he'll just begin clicking on it any time it comes up, which defeats the entire purpose.

Likewise, if a typical Ubuntu user needs to do too many things with root privilege, and he is possessed of even a little Google-fu, he'll discover sudo -i, and thereafter will likely use it habitually, even when he doesn't need to.

These are examples of a convergent evolution:  UNIX used to be a very high barrier to entry, and so it needed little droolproofing, but distros like Ubuntu have given Linux to the masses, and have had to make some compromises as a result.  Windows started out as a toy shell on top of (what purported to be) an operating system, and has progressed to where it now completely owns and controls the hardware, with all of the attendant dangers.  So both try to protect the naive user from himself, and both fail in different ways.

That's one of the reasons I have categorically avoided Ubuntu.  I cut my teeth on SunOS 4.1 and HPUX 9, back when men were men and an injudicious use of the rm -rf * command hurt.  I learned, in those days, to be careful and conscious of my current level of user privilege, and as such I can now su with confidence and aplomb.

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roo_ster

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2009, 06:51:26 PM »
That's one of the reasons I have categorically avoided Ubuntu.  I cut my teeth on SunOS 4.1 and HPUX 9, back when men were men and an injudicious use of the rm -rf * command hurt.  I learned, in those days, to be careful and conscious of my current level of user privilege, and as such I can now su with confidence and aplomb.

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My first unix boxes were DEC workstations in college, but my next were machines running HPUX 9.  I think the oldest box was a HP 725/125.

Yep, you learned to be careful with the rm command.

In Ubuntu's defense, it is so easy to install, it is tempting despite sudo-a-go-go.
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roo_ster

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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2009, 06:56:59 PM »
We also just received (like, yesterday) a new laptop for the wife, and it is likewise our first exposure to Vista. If you can spare some time to provide some hints as to what I could/should turn off to reduce wasted overhead, PLEASE send me a PM. If you do, remember I'm not an IT person, so it has to be things that a mere mortal can do without trashing the system.

It's a Toshiba Satellite L500, IIRC.

Wish you woulda asked sooner, I would have documented my efforts.

I'll see if I can recall it all, but it is different enough from XP to queer my account.
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Re: I Been Vista'd
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2009, 09:20:55 PM »
I made the decision this evening to no longer support Vista machines.  After spending over an hour trying unsuccessfully to convince a client's Vista machine that its preferred wireless network was not the one it insisted on connecting to, I realized that I've had it.
I'm done.  Windows Vista no more.  It will cost me some business, but it will save me money in the long run given the absurd amount of time it takes to administer a Vista system as compared to an XP-based machine.
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