Police behaving stupidly again.

[Perd Hapley]

Bob Dylan "harassed" by cops while strolling through a minority neighborhood.  

I've been waiting a while for the media, or the President, to make a big story out of this.  No luck. They even made him go back to the hotel so the staff could vouch for him. 

The incident began at 5 p.m. when a resident said a man was wandering around a low-income, predominantly minority neighborhood several blocks from the oceanfront looking at houses.

The police officer drove up to Dylan, who was wearing a blue jacket, and asked him his name. According to Woolley, the following exchange ensued:

“What is your name, sir?” the officer asked.

“Bob Dylan,” Dylan said.

“OK, what are you doing here?” the officer asked.

“I’m on tour,” the singer replied.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32422777/ns/entertainment-celebrities/

[RaspberrySurprise]

I would love to know what Mr Dylan was doing that was so heinous that the police felt the need to detain him until he could prove his identity. At least they we're nice...

[griz]

I heard it on the radio a few days ago.  They said somebody called 911 about an elderly man acting strangely. Apparently the officer got a lot of grief because she didn't know who Bob Dylan was.  That seems believable to me since his high point was probably decades before she was born.

[seeker_two]

If there's such a thing as DWB (Driving While Black), then I guess this would be WWW (Walking While White)....

....question is: Does Bob Dylan remember any of this?.... 

[209]

Well, knowing that Dylan used to experiment with interesting mind altering compounds, if he was "acting strangely", what would you have the cops do?  Ignore the call? 

We sit here and criticize the police for investigating a potential problem.  Suppose that it was your father or mother who walked away from their retirement home?  Do we blow that off?  No, in today's world, the police would be negligent for doing so.  Due diligence is the new catch-on for law enforcement.  We have become the arbitrators for all societal concerns.  We no longer have the luxury of just preventing crime.  We are now mental health workers, babysitters, marriage counselors, etc, etc.

Whether or not you agree with those duties, it appears society wants, and demands, that from us.  Should we not attempt to address those issues the results are mega-dollar lawsuits.

[Jamisjockey]

Well, knowing that Dylan used to experiment with interesting mind altering compounds, if he was "acting strangely", what would you have the cops do?  Ignore the call? 

Yes.  Last I checked, acting strangely wasn't a crime, and could in fact even be protected by that pesky document, the 1st amendment to the Bill of Rights.

[vaskidmark]

It was either a suspicious person (older white guy in a low-income predominantly minority [read Black or Hispanic] neighborhood = suspicion of drug activity) or health/welfare (older white guy wandering about with no obvious connection to the area = Alzheimers/dementia/drunk) call.

NJ does have a stop-and-identify law.  The cops are not reported as having cuffed or tazered him, and seemingly were polite throughout the contact.

Seems to me to have been a normal day in the cruiser for the cops, and Mr. Dylan got a free ride back to his hotel out of the deal.

By the way, those wanting to call rights violations need to remember the difference between 1A and 4A.

stay safe.

skidmark

[Jamisjockey]

Acting strangely would seem to fall under the 1st.
Stopping him and making him identify himself?  4th.
Either way, it shows how far we've fallen.

[slugcatcher]

Acting strangely would seem to fall under the 1st.
Stopping him and making him identify himself?  4th.

It's early. I don't see you point. Could you explain?

[Jamisjockey]

It's early. I don't see you point. Could you explain?

I should have the right to walk down the street blabbering about being the second coming, king of the mole people, or hot and sexy.  Free speech.  And I shouldn't have to prove to the po-po who I am, unless I've actually been accused of committing a crime.  Freedom to be secure in my person. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

how do you balance that against trying to protect some person who is in the wrong place?the example of the older person who wandered off or a younger person for that matter

[slugcatcher]

I don't see rights violation here. Police responded to a call about a strange man wandering a neighborhood at night.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't see rights violation here. Police responded to a call about a strange man wandering a neighborhood at night.

Responding to a call is okay. They responded, and did not see any sign of illegal activity. Their involvement should have ended right there. But, instead, they detained him.

Google "Terry stop" and "Hiibel" to learn more about why the officer was way out of bounds.

[dogmush]

They asked him for ID.

He rode with them back to the hotel.

That's all we know right now.

I hate siding with the JBT's but we need to know if the encounter went like this:

Sir, can you show me some ID?

Not right now officer, I left it at the hotel, if you give me a ride back I'd be happy to show you.

or this

Sir, can you show me some ID?

Down with the man! I don't have to show you anything!!!

Sir, Get in the car.

Since Mr. Dylan isn't yet saying yet which happened, we have no idea if any rights were violated.

[Stand_watie]

       I see it as "not enough information" to call fair/foul.

     Was Dylan actually "detained" (and his frame of mind is a large determiner of this) or was he simply asked nicely and responded by politely complying?

[Dannyboy]

He was actually seen looking into a vacant house, which is what prompted the call.  Balko did a thing on this when it happened.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/14/bob.dylan/index.html

[AZRedhawk44]

He was actually seen looking into a vacant house, which is what prompted the call.  Balko did a thing on this when it happened.

What a crime...

I've been looking at LOTS of vacant houses recently.  I guess that makes me pretty sketchy, too.

Vacant house = real estate or rental opportunity for honestly curious buyers more often than it means "I'm a drug peddler looking for a new meth lab or grow house."

Probable cause really should conform more often to Occam's Razor than to Hollywood fantasy.

[Dannyboy]

What a crime...

I've been looking at LOTS of vacant houses recently.  I guess that makes me pretty sketchy, too.

Vacant house = real estate or rental opportunity for honestly curious buyers more often than it means "I'm a drug peddler looking for a new meth lab or grow house."

Probable cause really should conform more often to Occam's Razor than to Hollywood fantasy.

So if you weren't home and your neighbor saw someone peeking into your windows in the middle of the night, you wouldn't want them to call the cops? 


There's probably no one on this forum with a healthier dislike of police than me and I don't even have a problem with this.

[Monkeyleg]

In the account I read, Dylan said that the police treated him very politely. A certain professor might learn something by reading this story. Notice that Dylan didn't scream, "do you know who I am?"

[AZRedhawk44]

Danny:  What about that word "vacant?"

What does that mean to you?  And what is appropriate behavior around a vacant house?

[Jamisjockey]

I didn't say the cops did anything wrong; it's the fault of the activist judges and legislators "interpreting" the constitution.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I really don't get what the fuss is all about.  Shady looking characters poking around abandoned buildings is definitely something the police are supposed to look into.  It's perfectly reasonable to ask a shady looking character poking about on other peoples' property who he is, what he's doing, and why he's there.

The only thin odd about this story is that the shady character in question was somebody famous, and that the ossifer didn't realize it.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Danny:  What about that word "vacant?"

What does that mean to you?  And what is appropriate behavior around a vacant house?

If it's not your house, your only appropriate behavior is to stay away.

By occam's razor, the likelihood is that someone poking around a vacant house that isn't theirs is up to no good.  This is especially true if the person looks shady or is acting strange or seems out of place.  Peoples' property does get turned into meth labs at an alarming rate (my grandmother's old farm has been meth-lab-ized twice in the past couple years).  Property gets vandalized.  It gets used for other crimes.  Squatters.  Thieves and scrap scavengengers.  Trash dumpers.  Druggies of other sorts.  Teenagers.

[Hawkmoon]

They asked him for ID.

He rode with them back to the hotel.

That's all we know right now.

I hate siding with the JBT's but we need to know if the encounter went like this:

or this
Since Mr. Dylan isn't yet saying yet which happened, we have no idea if any rights were violated.

I referred to Terry and Hiibel for a reason. Between those two cases, both of which went to the SCOTUS, it has been clearly established that, while police may ask who you are for virtually any reason, they cannot (legally) detain you or even require that you identify yourself or provide proof of identity unless (a) there is "a reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed;" and (b) that the person being "interviewed" could reasonably be the perpetrator of said crime.

"Walking while white" is no more evidence of criminal or potential criminal activity than "driving while black." The officer had a right to ask the unknown male who he was. Once he said' "I'm Bob Dylan," unless there was some evidence to suggest that he was involved in a criminal act, the officer had no legal right to question him further, to demand proof of identity, or to detain him or take him back to his hotel (unless he asked if he could hitch a ride).

[Jamisjockey]

HTG:
Sure the police should investigate.  But if he wasn't caught in the comission of a crime, he shouldn't have been detained in any fashion.