Billion-Dollar Helicopter?

[Leatherneck]

From today's WaPo via the Early Bird:

Overruns Predicted On Presidential Copters
Washington Post; October 8, 2009

An internal Navy document shows new plans to replace the president's fleet
of helicopters will cost taxpayers more and take years longer to deliver
than a recently scrapped contract, a New York Democrat said.
Rep. Maurice Hinchey said the Pentagon's plan to abandon aircraft built by
Lockheed Martin Corp. and buy a new fleet with similar capabilities at a
cost of up to $22 billion for delivery as late as in 2024 is "beyond
illogical." He represents the district where the helicopters are made.
A Lockheed spokesman directed questions to the Navy. A spokesman for the
service did not return calls for comment.
In May, the military halted production of the helicopters at the Lockheed
helicopter plant in Owego, N.Y. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the
project, which had a $13 billion price tag, no longer met White House
requirements.
Cost overruns and delays plagued Lockheed's helicopter program due partly to
aggressive plans by the Bush administration to incorporate anti-missile
defenses, communications equipment, hardened hulls and other advanced
capabilities on the aircraft following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
The funding issue likely will surface next week when House and Senate
lawmakers meet to resolve differences over their respective defense spending
bills.

I'm speechless...

TC

[Boomhauer]

I'm speechless...

I'm not. It's government. Self explanatory.

[RevDisk]

An internal Navy document shows new plans to replace the president's fleet
of helicopters will cost taxpayers more and take years longer to deliver
than a recently scrapped contract, a New York Democrat said.

Uhm.  Try a year and probably $100m per aircraft.  Maybe $150m for the first two, possibly three aircraft.  Unless the specs are wildly wildly different than the current generation VH-60 fleet.  If they're superworried, just order more VH-60's.  They're not as impressive, but they do the job quite nicely. 


I can authoritatively say, I have no clue how you could make a helicopter cost $1b.  Literally, I'm not sure what you could bolt on that would add up to a billion per airframe.

[roo_ster]

Uhm.  Try a year and probably $100m per aircraft.  Maybe $150m for the first two, possibly three aircraft.  Unless the specs are wildly wildly different than the current generation VH-60 fleet.  If they're superworried, just order more VH-60's.  They're not as impressive, but they do the job quite nicely. 


I can authoritatively say, I have no clue how you could make a helicopter cost $1b.  Literally, I'm not sure what you could bolt on that would add up to a billion per airframe.

$1B in bearer bonds slathered on the outer skin using wallpaper paste?

[Boomhauer]

I can authoritatively say, I have no clue how you could make a helicopter cost $1b.  Literally, I'm not sure what you could bolt on that would add up to a billion per airframe.

Kickbacks are expensive.

[buzz_knox]

Kickbacks are expensive.

The correct term is "cost overruns."  But yes, you are essentially correct.

[Leatherneck]

I can authoritatively say, I have no clue how you could make a helicopter cost $1b.  Literally, I'm not sure what you could bolt on that would add up to a billion per airframe.

Supposedly, they're cutting back significantly on the VH-71 requirements because Ashton Carter has convinced SecDef that such a helicopter cannot be built. I'll believe it when I see it in writing, but I fully expect to see a boatload of the latest avionics, comm gear better that the Enterprise, electronic warfare suite with all the trimmings, extended-range fuel tanks, complete armor kit, and a fine Corinthian leather chair for The Man.

Integrating all that into a VH-whatever will take ages and cartloads of cash. UGH.

TC

[buzz_knox]

Integrating all that into a VH-whatever will take ages and cartloads of cash. UGH.

And as the price gets driven up, Congress will cut the program without ending it.  So, the development costs will be carried by a smaller number of air frames, whose per unit price skyrockets. 

That $1 billion a bird might be low by the time things get hashed out, and the dollar continues its bellyflopping.

[RevDisk]

Supposedly, they're cutting back significantly on the VH-71 requirements because Ashton Carter has convinced SecDef that such a helicopter cannot be built. I'll believe it when I see it in writing, but I fully expect to see a boatload of the latest avionics, comm gear better that the Enterprise, electronic warfare suite with all the trimmings, extended-range fuel tanks, complete armor kit, and a fine Corinthian leather chair for The Man.

Integrating all that into a VH-whatever will take ages and cartloads of cash. UGH.

Really.  Sounds exactly like the ones we just built for the President of South Korea.

The only part that'd be truly hideously expensive is the security procedures.  Every employee who needs to go within a hundred feet of the airframe needs a Yankee White.  Good luck with that if every person making the aircraft is a foreign national.  Seriously, I could very easily seeing $20m or more per bird surcharge for security alone.

[Gewehr98]

Just a gentle reminder for the membership here who don't already know it:

We have insiders both in the Pentagon (aka Puzzle Palace) and at Sikorsky who just happen to be APS members.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'd temper my posting in this thread accordingly, know what I mean? 

[Cromlech]

I can authoritatively say, I have no clue how you could make a helicopter cost $1b.  Literally, I'm not sure what you could bolt on that would add up to a billion per airframe.

[French G.]

I don't think the VH-60 will ever be the primary Marine One. overseas sure because you can fold it up and stuff it in a C-5, but stateside I don't see the prez crawling into a helo he can't stand up in. I've said it before, the S-92 or similar could get the job done for a lot less than the VH-71 boondoogle. Of course[inser old-timer voice here] I don't see much wrong with the VH-3Ds he is riding in now. One of the safest helos ever built for the military judging by fatalities/100k hours. Make some new ones. Of course I'm biased, former VH-3A fixer. 

[Leatherneck]

With G98's well-advised caution in mind:

The only part that'd be truly hideously expensive is the security procedures.  Every employee who needs to go within a hundred feet of the airframe needs a Yankee White.  Good luck with that if every person making the aircraft is a foreign national.  Seriously, I could very easily seeing $20m or more per bird surcharge for security alone.

Very true. Advertising noted, Rev. 

TC

[280plus]

I can authoritatively say, I have no clue how you could make a helicopter cost $1b.  Literally, I'm not sure what you could bolt on that would add up to a billion per airframe

Soild gold bathroom fixtures?

[Leatherneck]

Soild gold bathroom fixtures?

If only it were that simple, 280. Far worse.

TC
ETA: And far more expensive. Even with gold prices above $1K.

[Waitone]

How 'bout a kitchen to prepare POTUS meals?

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Soild gold bathroom fixtures?

No. Black paint. 

[280plus]

Special black paint... 

[RevDisk]

No. Black paint. 

Darn it, it's MIL DTL53039 aircraft dark green, specifically Federal Standard# 34031 (as specified in the FS 595B - Colors used in Federal Procurement).  Is it REALLY that hard to say "Em dark green (shade FS34031) helicopters are doing XYZ" instead of "Em black helicopters are doing XYZ"

Gah!  I swear tin foil makes people immune from using proper and accurate nomenclature!   





 

[280plus]

No Mil Spec number?

[RevDisk]

No Mil Spec number?

MIL DTL53039

http://www.nuteccoatings.com/MIL-DTL-53039_carc_coatings.htm

[280plus]

Oh well duh... 

[Gewehr98]

Do they use a special primer to get that blackish-green (greenish-black?) paint to adhere to the solid-gold, $1K/ounce presidential helicopter, then?   

[crt360]

Do they use a special primer to get that blackish-green (greenish-black?) paint to adhere to the solid-gold, $1K/ounce presidential helicopter, then?   

I think it's really the gold underneath the "black" paint that makes it look greenish.  Rev is just cleverly feeding us some disinformation (like that nutec website I almost fell for).  :D

[Hawkmoon]

Supposedly, they're cutting back significantly on the VH-71 requirements because Ashton Carter has convinced SecDef that such a helicopter cannot be built. I'll believe it when I see it in writing, but I fully expect to see a boatload of the latest avionics, comm gear better that the Enterprise, electronic warfare suite with all the trimmings, extended-range fuel tanks, complete armor kit, and a fine Corinthian leather chair for The Man.

And they need all this to fly from the White House lawn to Andrews AFB?

:Barf: