Uhh... linux... uhhhh.... ahhh... help?

[Winston Smith]

I've been trying to read up on linux, and I'm not stupid, but I just can't get a toehold... I know it's another operating system that's simpler and customisable and free, however that's about it.


Any guides out there for stupid people?

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Linux for Dummies is good. If you've already decided on a specific distribution of Linux (Fedora, Ubuntu, etc.), there are more specific versions of the "Dummies" books available.

Also see www.linuxquestions.org.

- NF

[mtnbkr]

simpler

umm, not really.  

T'ain't free either.  It's free as in speech and sometimes free as in beer (can be downloaded), but it exacts a cost in time and effort, especially for newbies.

Can't help you on the helpful guides though.  I started with it back when Usenet and man pages were the helpful guides (RTFM luser!, just kidding).  Your local bookstore should have some good books though.  O'rielly books (the ones with the animals on the cover) aren't the simplest, but they're usually good.  Dummies books as shown above are usually quite good as well.

If it isn't free and it isn't simple, what good is it?  You get as close to a real Unix as you can without spending big bucks and buying high end hardware (ie Sun Solaris or HP Unix).  What you learn will help you with commercial Unix systems as well.  You also have a system that can be as robust and secure as you want it to be, limited only by your ability to learn.  If all you've ever used is Win95/98/ME, Linux will amaze you.  If you've used the server versions of WinNT/2000/XP, it won't be quite as special, but you'll still enjoy the experience.

I'm not a Linux Fankid, but I'm not a detractor either.  It's another tool in the IT arsenal.

Chris

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Another piece of advice -- you'll never grok it by just reading books. Stop reading up and get your hands dirty. Buy the Dummies book, put up a Linux, and make it go.

If you've got a PC with some extra disk, you can partition the disk and make a dual-boot system.  I have Windows ME on the other partition so that I can run tax software and talk to Cheapistani tech drones to resolve DSL issues and the like.

Next, get the connection to your ISP working so that you can access the Web and read and write mail. Not simple, but it is possible. And you'll learn a lot about all the thingulators and coggle-flatches that make computers and networks go.

One of the great things about Linux is that it's the centerpiece of a culture of geeks helping other geeks. There's all kinds of help for newbies out there. So don't be afraid to ask for help -- and, when you're strong enough, to give it too.

Personally, I'm on Fedora Core 4.  If you get stuck, drop me a PM and I'll try to help.

- NF

[Winston Smith]

So, it looks like I want to use debian as my distribution, because I'm going to be wanting to use it on a mac box. How would I go about partitioning the drive... and, well, I'm getting visions of just getting command line that I don't know any code for when I start up linux... is this the truth? Looks like there's some graphical representation and a lot of free software mirroring (probably better though) what I'm used to.

[Winston Smith]

Nevermind, figured out how to partition. But my other questions still stand.

[Ben]

Personally, I'd start out with Ubuntu (a Debian derivative) just to get familiar with stuff. Then work your way up to the more user-interactive versions of Linux. There's no time like the beginning to just install and play around with different versions. This not only gets you familiar with various installation procedures, but lets you check out all the different packages as well.

Once you've gone through a half dozen or so different installations, you'll probably find one that feels right to you. You'll also have made the most common installation goofs and "wish I'ds" and won't do so on your (sort of) final installation.

[jefnvk]

You can make it just give you code when you start up, or you can make it boot into a pretty windows system just as Mac OS or Windows would.  It is up to you.

But, my opinions pretty much mirror mtnbkr's.  It is free, but so is Windows or Mac when you buy it with a computer.  Simpler is nothign I have ever noticed, if anything it is much more complex.

It stays cleaner than my Windows box, because there isn't a multitude of programs I can downlaod and try out, and decide I don't like and never uninstall.  As far as security, I have never had a problem on either (or Solaris, for that matter).  My security problems all involve idiot college kids getting ahold of the keyboard and bringing up goatsy, or other disturbing sites.

Best places to learn?  Many of the sites will have a tutorial to at lest get you started.  MAN pages are great, just type man xxxxx, where xxxxx is whatever command you need help with.  Google is my biggest resource, whenever I have a specific problem I need to fix.

[jefnvk]

The best way to get help is to go to a Linux usenet group or forum and say "Linux sucks because it can't do X". You will have experts falling over themselves telling you fifteen different ways to do X.

Why have I never thought of that? :banghead:

Oh, another though.  I'm sure you can find a Linux Users Group somewhere in San Francisco.  Or if you are in college, there may be one there.  Enough geeks in those to help you with whatever you need.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

It is free, but so is Windows or Mac when you buy it with a computer.

TANSTAAFL. The price of the OS (sometimes known as the "Microsoft tax") is built into the price of the box. Moreover, if you don't want Windows, it's darn near impossible to get the PC maker to knock the price down.

Exception: It's possible to buy PCs without an OS, but this is usually done by large institutions. Ditto having them delivered with your own custom disk image.

- NF

[lee n. field]

I know it's another operating system that's simpler and customisable and free, however that's about it.

Simpler than what?

The guts of Linux are easier to maintain for a longtime geek with command line skills than any bit of RedmondOS.  Also quite a bit more satisfying (fixed stuff tends to stay fixed, as opposed to randomly breaking again for no good reason).

So, it looks like I want to use debian as my distribution, because I'm going to be wanting to use it on a mac box.

As long as it is a fairly recent Mac (imac or newer).  And, BTW, once you get past the partitioning, Debian on a Mac is exactly the same as Debian on a PeeCee.

As far as partitioning, probably the Debian installer will handle it for you OK.  I always do that part manually, because I have my way I want things to go, but there are automatic options.

Ubuntu's security model is like OSX's (no root user, run admin stuff with sudo).

[jefnvk]

It is free, but so is Windows or Mac when you buy it with a computer.

TANSTAAFL. The price of the OS (sometimes known as the "Microsoft tax") is built into the price of the box. Moreover, if you don't want Windows, it's darn near impossible to get the PC maker to knock the price down.

Exception: It's possible to buy PCs without an OS, but this is usually done by large institutions. Ditto having them delivered with your own custom disk image.

- NF

OK, I'll give you that.

But when PC's are going out the door for $200 for a complete package, or less, I can't believe too much of that goes to MS for licensing fees.

On the other hand, someone had to put the time and effort into Linux.  Someone is paying, just that that someone is not you.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

I could probably get the launch codes for an MX missile more easily than I could get the price Microsoft charges OEMs. That information is, uh, carefully guarded. Probably so that the OEMs don't flex their muscles.

- NF

[Winston Smith]

All right, all right, I'll rescind the simpler comment, I meant... streamlined.

I appreciate your help guys.

Probably going to attempt it on this cheap-o laptop I got a sweet deal on.

If Ubuntu truly partitions the drive for you, then I'm down! I'm ready. I'll check it out.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

(quote) You get as close to a real Unix as you can without spending big bucks and buying high end hardware (ie Sun Solaris or HP Unix).

{cough} AIX.
Which, might I remind you, is fully Linux interoperable.


As far as running Linux on a Mac, don't forget Yellow Dog or Suse for PowerPC. I've run both on IBM PowerPC hadware.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[mtnbkr]

Let's not get picky.  If you'll notice, I left out BSD as well.  For better or worse, Linux is THE free *nix for most newbies.