Author Topic: Balog's Bad News thread  (Read 14452 times)

Balog

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Balog's Bad News thread
« on: November 13, 2009, 11:37:15 PM »
So after having about a dozen threads consolidated into one I got the hint and have decided to start one thread as a running repository of all the negative news stories I'm finding these days. This will prevent the front page from getting crowded, and ensure no one loses track of a discussion because it's suddenly in a thread that's almost but not entirely unrelated to it.

I need to add the disclaimer that my posting an article is not an indication that I agree with everything it says. I may in fact post an article I vehemently disagree with, should it contain interesting data.


« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 09:59:24 AM by Ben »
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Dollar drops to 15 month low
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 11:45:48 PM »
And people wonder why talks about replacing the dollar as the world reserve currency are becoming more credible.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g8xN5q0b0X5GBVkEEfWfxdWKr6FAD9BTCTOO2

Dollar falls to 15-month low despite US support


(AP) – 2 days ago

NEW YORK — The dollar dropped to a new 15-month low as the the euro rose above $1.50 Wednesday morning, even as Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner reiterated the administration's stance that a strong dollar is good for the U.S. economy.

Geithner, in a speech in Tokyo on his way to a summit of Asian finance ministers in Singapore, also said low interest rates and other government supports for the economy were still needed.

The expectation that the Federal Reserve will keep the key U.S. interest rate near zero has been weighing on the dollar. Higher interest rates make a currency more attractive for investors, since bets made in that currency can earn higher returns.

In morning trading in New York, the 16-nation euro rose to $1.5026 from $1.4978 late Tuesday. The British pound fell to $1.6665 from $1.6737, and the dollar edged up to 89.80 Japanese yen from 89.77 yen.

The dollar also slipped to 1.0047 Swiss francs from 1.0081 francs, and fell to 1.0455 Canadian dollars from 1.0496 late Tuesday.

Against a basket of six major currencies, the dollar hit a 15-month low of 74.775.

"The momentum and the conviction that the Fed will not raise rates any time soon, coupled with the fact that the major central banks continue to provide liquidity liberally" means the "fundamental force" weighing on the dollar will persist, said Brown Brothers Harriman analyst Marc Chandler in a research note Wednesday.

Federal Reserve officials speaking late Tuesday noted that the economic recovery is likely to be weak and reiterated that the central bank will keep rates low.

One official even suggested that the first rate hikes could be delayed until 2011.

"Any perception the Fed will keep rates lower for even longer will pressure the dollar," said UBS analyst Geoffrey Yu.

Investors around the world are viewing the dollar as weaker than other currencies because of low U.S. interest rates and huge budget deficits. They're using it for what's known as "carry trade" — traders borrowing dollars to make investments in emerging-market currencies, oil or equities. That bet weighs on the dollar.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

RevDisk

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2009, 01:45:52 AM »

We'll see.  From what I've seen, China's leaders tend to be less stupid than our own.  I have no doubt China is cooking numbers, but remember, they're sitting on significant capital reserves and manufacturing capacities.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 03:14:13 AM »
*Looks at China, beats keyboard with shoe*
Whether you like it or not, Fistful is on our side. We will bury you!
*puts away shoe*

Boom and bust are never far apart. Make too little stuff, you miss out on lots of extra profits. Make too much, and you're left with full warehouses and no buyers in sight, even when you're selling for a loss.

RocketMan

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Re: Dollar drops to 15 month low
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 04:36:43 AM »
You're just full of all kinds of good news tonight, aren't you Balog?
The problem is, most of it is accurate.
Sigh...
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

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Jamisjockey

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2009, 09:32:28 AM »
Merged similar topics.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2009, 04:55:59 PM »
Quote
Chang argues that inconsistencies in Chinese official statistics — like the surging numbers for car sales but flat statistics for gasoline consumption — indicate that the Chinese are simply cooking their books.

China is a fundamentally dishonest nation. I don't mean just that it's dishonest because it's communist, although communism and its slightly more polite kid brother socialism are inherently dishonest. I mean lying is socially acceptable in China.

That saidâ„¢, the communist regime's efforts to jigger that nation's economy will probably hasten economic trouble, which, in turn, will hasten the regime's collapse. Purportedly "managed" economies are inherently unstable.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2009, 05:21:03 PM »
China is a fundamentally dishonest nation. I don't mean just that it's dishonest because it's communist, although communism and its slightly more polite kid brother socialism are inherently dishonest. I mean lying is socially acceptable in China.

That saidâ„¢, the communist regime's efforts to jigger that nation's economy will probably hasten economic trouble, which, in turn, will hasten the regime's collapse. Purportedly "managed" economies are inherently unstable.

Exactly what my wife discovered when she taught English there.
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roo_ster

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lee n. field

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2009, 05:56:55 PM »
Quote
I mean lying is socially acceptable in China.

My understanding is, guilt is not a motivator, shame is.
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agricola

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2009, 06:23:29 PM »
TBH if anything is going to cause a crash in China its the fact that they hold so much bad debt.
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Bank failure totals for 2009 reach 123
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2009, 11:47:01 PM »
That is a lot of banks going down. Hope no one here has been hurt by this. More still to come...

http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/13/news/economy/bank_failure/

Bank failure toll reaches 123
Regulators close two Florida banks and on in California, costing the FDIC $986.4 million.

By Hibah Yousuf, CNNMoney.com staff reporter
Last Updated: November 13, 2009: 8:25 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Two Florida banks and one in California failed Friday night, bring the 2009 national tally to 123. Regulators closed Century Bank, Federal Savings Bank in Sarasota, Fla., Orion Bank in Naples, Fla., and Pacific Coast National Bank in San Clemente, Calif.

Customers of all the failed banks are protected, however. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., which has insured bank deposits since the Great Depression, currently covers customer accounts up to $250,000.

Iberiabank in Lafayette, La., will assume both Florida banks' $2.731 billion in deposits, according to the FDIC. Iberiabank also entered into a loss-share agreement with the FDIC on $656 million of Century Bank's $725 million in assets and on $1.9 billion of Orion Bank's $2.7 billion in assets.

The 11 branches of Century Bank and 23 branches of Orion Bank will reopen as branches of Iberiabank.

Sunwest Bank in Tustin, Calif. will assume Pacific Coast's $134.4 million in assets and $130.9 million in deposits, according to the FDIC. The two branches of Pacific Coast will reopen as branches of Sunwest Bank.

Customers of the failed banks can access their money over the weekend by writing checks or using ATMs or debit cards. Checks will continue to be processed, and borrowers should make mortgage and loan payments as usual.

The FDIC also said customers should continue to use their existing branch until they receive notice that the takeover has been completed.

An average of 11 banks have failed per month this year, and the federal coffer is thinning under the massive strain.

The fund now stands below $10 billion, down significantly from $45 billion a year ago. Friday's closure will cost the FDIC an estimated $986.4 million.

After factoring in expected closures, the agency says its insurance fund is in the red and will remain there through 2012. Over the next four years, the agency expects bank closures will cost $100 billion.

The bank failure count for 2009 is still far from 1989's record high of 534 bank closures which took place during the savings and loan crisis, when the insurance fund also carried a negative balance.

The tally is nearly five times the number that failed in 2008, and the highest tally since 1992 when 181 banks failed. To top of page
First Published: November 13, 2009: 6:28 PM ET
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Bank failure totals for 2009 reach 123
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2009, 08:39:56 AM »
Well, since there are currently over 15,000 banks or CU's in the country....
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2009, 08:41:40 AM »
String of financial threads merged.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2009, 08:47:07 AM »
during the s&l crisi my understanding was the "regulators" put some of them under  where they were scooped up .
the example i know of the institution had loaned money during the last boom  the crash came and while the amount loaned hadn't gone up the value of the collateral had gone down and the rtc stepped in to save the day.  as part of the "government help" they called in loans to a number of folks business and personal. loans that were not in arrears. as a result i know of several builders that went bankrupt and one 10 mill plus horse farm that was foreclosed and sold for 3.5 mill to a developer who held it for 5 years then turned it into a big development off rt 28 and linden hall road. i suspect we will get more help like that
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MicroBalrog

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Re: Bank failure totals for 2009 reach 123
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2009, 01:16:49 PM »
Well, since there are currently over 15,000 banks or CU's in the country....


Wait, wait.

America has 50 banks per million citizens? Seriously?
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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2009, 01:31:04 PM »
Wait, wait.

America has 50 banks per million citizens? Seriously?

Are you commenting on the availability of banking services to an average citizen, Micro?  I'm thinking that number does not take into account the multiple branches of each bank.  Factor that in, and there is a bank on almost every street corner.  (Some exaggeration here to make the point.)
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2009, 03:43:43 PM »
I'm commenting on the amount of competition available in the banking sector.

In Israel we have 16 banks, including foreign banks that do not give service to the average citizen. This comes out to approximately 2.2 banks per million citizens, or 1/25th of the comparable US number.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

roo_ster

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2009, 07:09:49 PM »
I'm commenting on the amount of competition available in the banking sector.

In Israel we have 16 banks, including foreign banks that do not give service to the average citizen. This comes out to approximately 2.2 banks per million citizens, or 1/25th of the comparable US number.

Dude, we got banks coming outta our ears.
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roo_ster

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Waitone

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2009, 07:25:15 PM »
Quote
Dude, we got banks coming outta our ears.
Which should cause questions to be asked about operating margins.
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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2009, 07:40:49 PM »
I live in a town of 11,000, and we've got...around 5 different banks.  Maybe more.
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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2009, 10:30:19 PM »
I grew up near a town of 4000.  There were at least 2 banks and one savings and loan that I can think of off the top of my head.  The town was the county seat also.  Farming/retirement community. 
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brimic

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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2009, 08:05:32 AM »
Three in my town of 6000 (that's if you include the bank branch inside of th egrocery store.)
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Re: Possible Chinese crash?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2009, 09:58:40 AM »
>In Israel we have 16 banks, including foreign banks that do not give service to the average citizen. This comes out to approximately 2.2 banks per million citizens, or 1/25th of the comparable US number.<

If you think we have a lot of banks, you should see how many Starbucks we've got...  >:D
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Balog

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Balog's Bad News thread
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2009, 02:35:42 AM »
It's interesting, one hears a lot about the zomg amazing Chinese market growth. I wonder what effect a crash in China would have globally? This is just an excerpt, moar at the linkie.



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29330.html

Now, Chanos says he has found another “trust me” story: China. And he is moving to short the entire nation’s economy. Washington policymakers would do well to understand his argument, because if he’s right, the consequences will be felt here.

Chanos and the other bears point to several key pieces of evidence that China is heading for a crash.

First, they point to the enormous Chinese economic stimulus effort — with the government spending $900 billion to prop up a $4.3 trillion economy. “Yet China’s economy, for all the stimulus it has received in 11 months, is underperforming,” Gordon Chang, author of “The Coming Collapse of China,” wrote in Forbes at the end of October. “More important, it is unlikely that [third-quarter] expansion was anywhere near the claimed 8.9 percent.”

Chang argues that inconsistencies in Chinese official statistics — like the surging numbers for car sales but flat statistics for gasoline consumption — indicate that the Chinese are simply cooking their books. He speculates that Chinese state-run companies are buying fleets of cars and simply storing them in giant parking lots in order to generate apparent growth.

Another data point cited by the bears: overcapacity. For example, the Chinese already consume more cement than the rest of the world combined, at 1.4 billion tons per year. But they have dramatically ramped up their ability to produce even more in recent years, leading to an estimated spare capacity of about 340 million tons, which, according to a report prepared earlier this year by Pivot Capital Management, is more than the consumption in the U.S., India and Japan combined.

This, Chanos and others argue, is happening in sector after sector in the Chinese economy. And that means the Chinese are in danger of producing huge quantities of goods and products that they will be unable to sell.

The Pivot Capital report was extremely popular in Chanos’s office and concluded, “We believe the coming slowdown in China has the potential to be a similar watershed event for world markets as the reversal of the U.S. subprime and housing boom.”

And the bears also keep a close eye on anecdotal reports from the ground level in China, like a recent posting on a blog called The Peking Duck about shopping at Beijing’s “stunningly dysfunctional, catastrophic mall, called The Place.”

“I was shocked at what I saw,” the blogger wrote. “Fifty percent of the eateries in the basement were boarded up. The cheap food court, too, was gone, covered up with ugly blue boarding, making the basement especially grim and dreary. ... There is simply too much stuff, too many stores and no buyers.”
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 09:59:54 AM by Ben »
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Balog's Bad News thread
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2009, 02:39:31 AM »
The comments about deflation remind me of HTG. The article is biased, but has some interesting facts if you can look past that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6575883/China-has-now-become-the-biggest-risk-to-the-world-economy.html


China has now become the biggest risk to the world economy

Far from taking over as the engine of growth from an exhausted West, China is making matters worse. Its "beggar-thy-neighbour" policies continue to play havoc with global trade and risk tipping the world into a second leg of the Great Recession.
 

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Published: 6:21PM GMT 15 Nov 2009

"The inherent problems of the international economic system have not been fully addressed," said China's president Hu Jintao. Indeed not. China is still exporting overcapacity to the rest of us on a grand scale, with deflationary consequences.

While some fret about liquidity-driven inflation, Justin Lin, World Bank chief economist, said the greater danger is that record levels of idle plant almost everywhere will feed a downward spiral of job cuts and corporate busts. "I'm more worried about deflation," he said.
 
By holding the yuan to 6.83 to the dollar to boost exports, Beijing is dumping its unemployment abroad – "stealing American jobs", says Nobel laureate Paul Krugman. As long as China does it, other tigers must do it too.

Western capitalists are complicit, of course. They rent cheap workers and cheap plant in Guangdong, then lobby Capitol Hill to prevent Congress doing anything about it. This is labour arbitrage.

At some point, American workers will rebel. US unemployment is already 17.5pc under the broad "U6" gauge followed by Barack Obama. Realty Track said that 332,000 properties were foreclosed in October alone. More Americans have lost their homes this year than during the entire decade of the Great Depression. A backlog of 7m homes is awaiting likely seizure by lenders. If you are not paying attention to this political time-bomb, perhaps you should.

President Obama said before going to China this week that Asia can no longer live by shipping goods to Americans already in debt to their ears. "We have reached one of those rare inflection points in history where we have the opportunity to take a different path," he said. Failure to take that path will "put enormous strains" on America's ties to China. Is that a threat?

It is fashionable to talk of America as the supplicant. That misreads the strategic balance. Washington can bring China to its knees at any time by shutting markets. There is no symmetry here. Any move by Beijing to liquidate its holdings of US Treasuries could be neutralized – in extremis – by capital controls. Well-armed sovereign states can do whatever they want.

If provoked, the US has the economic depth to retreat into near autarky (with NAFTA) and retool its industries behind tariff walls – as Britain did in the 1930s under Imperial Preference. In such circumstances, China would collapse. Mao statues would be toppled by street riots.

Mr Hu sounded conciliatory last week. China is taking "vigorous" steps to cut reliance on exports, still 39pc of GDP. "We want to increase people's ability to spend," he said.

Beijing is indeed boosting pensions and extending health insurance to the countryside so that people feel less need to save, but cultural revolutions take time. All we have seen so far are "baby steps", says Morgan Stanley's Stephen Roach.

The reality is that much of Beijing's $600bn stimulus has been spent building yet more plant and infrastructure so that China can ship yet more goods, or has leaked into property and stocks.

Credit has exploded. Allocated by Maoist bosses for political purposes, it has become absurd. China is rolling as much steel as the next eight producers combined. It is churning more cement than the rest of the world. Fixed investment is up 53pc this year. Once you know that Hunan authorities have torn down two miles of modern flyway so that they can soak up stimulus by building it again, or that the newly-built city of Ordos is sitting empty in Inner Mongolia, you know what must come next.

Pivot Asset Management said lending has touched 140pc of GDP, "well beyond" levels that have led to crises in the past. With the revolution's 60th birthday out of the way, the central bank has begun to tighten. New yuan loans halved in October. So be careful. Pivot said a hard-landing in China could prove as traumatic for world markets as the US sub-prime crash.

The world economy is still skating on thin ice. The West is sated with debt, the East with plant. The crisis has been contained (or masked) by zero rates and a fiscal blast, trashing sovereign balance sheets. But the core problem remains. The Anglo-sphere and Club Med are tightening belts, yet Asia is not adding enough demand to compensate. It is adding supply.

My view is that markets are still in denial about the structural wreckage of the credit bubble. There are two more boils to lance: China's investment bubble; and Europe's banking cover-up. I fear that only then can we clear the rubble and, very slowly, start a fresh cycle.

Ambrose Evans Pritchard
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.