Author Topic: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA  (Read 23606 times)

209

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #75 on: December 01, 2009, 05:49:46 AM »

Does anyone else have a problem describing this as an "ambush"?  Every definition I've seen indicates that ambush means to attack from concealment, by surprise.  This heinous crime was an "ambush" about as much as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.


If the definition of a (military-style) ambush doesn't fit, I guess we could say it was a (military-style) raid.  He struck with surprise and his intent was to kill specific people.  He targeted only the officers and didn't shoot the other folks present.

But regardless what we label it, it was a shocking incident.  Now the reports say his family and/or friends are aiding him in avoiding capture.  :mad:

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #76 on: December 01, 2009, 06:55:47 AM »
Breaking news on boston.com is that he was caught and killed this am....
One day at a time.

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2009, 06:57:26 AM »
and now it's gone?
One day at a time.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2009, 08:10:53 AM »
Breaking news on boston.com is that he was caught and killed this am....

Local fox news is reporting the exact same thing, and that he was on the run with the help of accomplices that will likely face charges.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,046
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2009, 08:17:38 AM »




http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010393433_webarrest01m.html


Lakewood police shooting suspect shot dead by police in South Seattle early this morning

By Jennifer Sullivan

Seattle Times staff reporter

Maurice Clemmons, the suspect wanted in slaying of four Lakewood police officers, was shot and killed in South Seattle early this morning.

Clemmons was standing outside in the 4400 block of South Kenyon Street when he was confronted by officers. He challenged the officers and was shot around 2:40 a.m.

No police were injured in the incident.

At the scene, a couple of dozen police officers milled around, shaking hands and patting each other on the back after one of the largest manhunts in the region's history.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,915
  • A more Elegant Monkey for a more civilized Forum.
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2009, 08:31:44 AM »
Fox just did a live interview with an LEO n scene. Nothing mentioned about the perp challenging the officer. What was mentioned is the officer challenged the perp, perp would not show the officer his hands and started to run from the officer at an angle an the officer shot him, fired several rounds. A gun was found in him, but no mention of the perp brandishing the weapon or reaching for it.
 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 08:38:11 AM by Dust Monkey »
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,046
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2009, 08:37:31 AM »
According to the live interview from the PIO, two things of note:  Mr. Clemmons had a gunshot wound to the center of mass, and he was found with a service pistol taken from one of the Lakewood officers.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2009, 09:06:06 AM »
Stick a fork in him.


Good riddance.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,693
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2009, 09:33:43 AM »
Seeing the same reports here in SoCal on Fox News.  Not a bad end, except that we may never know his real motive for the killings.  That would have been good information to have.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2009, 09:51:17 AM »



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010393433_webarrest01m.html


Lakewood police shooting suspect shot dead by police in South Seattle early this morning

By Jennifer Sullivan

Seattle Times staff reporter

Maurice Clemmons, the suspect wanted in slaying of four Lakewood police officers, was shot and killed in South Seattle early this morning.

Clemmons was standing outside in the 4400 block of South Kenyon Street when he was confronted by officers. He challenged the officers and was shot around 2:40 a.m.

No police were injured in the incident.

At the scene, a couple of dozen police officers milled around, shaking hands and patting each other on the back after one of the largest manhunts in the region's history.

I'm not surprised that Mr. Clemmons did not get apprehended alive.  You kill four cops, they kinda take that thing personal.  Not saying killing Clemmons was bad or wrong, quite the contrary.  Some folks need to depart this earth, and blessed is whomever makes it happen.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2009, 10:27:59 AM »
Further consideration in the cops mindset, I'm sure:  He already killed 4 cops in cold blood.  You've got the drop on him.  I wouldn't give him the chance to kill me, too. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,046
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2009, 10:42:47 AM »
Article in today's NYT.  Interesting comments on how Mr. Clemmons was able to bail out of jail once Arkansas dropped their warrant.  He had been in jail for several months but after Arkansas released their hold, he paid $ 15,000 to get a $ 150,000 bail bond and was released.



 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 2, 2009
Tacoma Suspect Said to Be Killed by Police
By WILLIAM YARDLEY and JACK HEALY
SEATTLE — A man suspected of fatally shooting four uniformed police officers was shot and killed early Tuesday by a Seattle police officer who chanced upon him during a routine patrol.

The death of the suspect, Maurice Clemmons, 37, capped a huge manhunt that had fanned out through Seattle over the last two days as scores of police chased the trail of the suspect. Police officials said Mr. Clemmons had been carrying a gun that had belonged to one of the four officers, who were killed at a coffee shop near Tacoma Sunday morning.

In an interview, the city’s interim police chief, John Diaz, said a Seattle officer had been patrolling a working-class neighborhood in south Seattle around 2:45 a.m. when he came across an empty car on the street, its engine idling and its hood raised. The officer called in a report on the vehicle, which turned out to be stolen. He was sitting in his patrol cruiser, writing up paperwork, when he saw Mr. Clemmons approaching from behind.

The officer, a seven-year veteran, recognized Mr. Clemmons “immediately,” Mr. Diaz said, and noticed that the suspect was trying to pull something from one of his pockets. He ordered Mr. Clemmons to put his hands up, but he refused and began to move away from the officer. The officer shot at least twice, Mr. Diaz said. Mr. Clemmons was pronounced dead at the scene.

“It’s not the way we wanted it to end,” Mr. Diaz said.

The name of the officer who shot Mr. Clemmons was not released; he will be placed on administrative leave until a hearing on the use of force is held. Such a hearing is customary in this kind of situation, Mr. Diaz said, adding that it appeared that the officer had acted appropriately.

“He was in fear of his life,” Mr. Diaz said. “He was telling him, ‘Put your hands up,’ and he wasn’t doing it.”

Mr. Clemmons had a lengthy criminal history, including pending felony charges of raping a 12-year-old relative and assaulting police officers. He was released on bail last week.

The police said Mr. Clemmons had already been shot in the abdomen by one of the four officers who were killed Sunday morning, but he continued to elude the authorities on Monday. Throughout the day, the police pursued a confusing range of tips that he had been seen in several places across Seattle, from a park in the Beacon Hill neighborhood to the University of Washington.

Officials posted a bulletin on Twitter saying the suspect could be in the university district and urging students to be alert. Later in the day, the police said they were looking for a green 1997 Mazda Millenia and were monitoring the state’s borders, but that search was soon called off.

The police offered a reward of $125,000 for information leading to Mr. Clemmons’s capture.

Earlier Monday, after a tip from Pierce County investigators, Seattle police officials believed that they had cornered Mr. Clemmons in a house in the city’s Leschi neighborhood. After officers surrounded the house, flooded it with spotlights and sent a robot to approach it, SWAT teams entered, only to find that he was not there, said Detective Mark Jamieson, a spokesman for the Seattle Police Department.

“We have more concrete evidence that the suspect was at that location,” Detective Jamieson said. “We don’t know if he was in the house, but he was seen at that location.”

The four officers were killed Sunday morning at a coffee shop in Lakewood as they worked on laptops preparing for a patrol shift. Officials have said there was evidence that one of them chased the gunman outside as he fled and fired shots, striking the suspect before dying of gunshot wounds.

In 2000, Gov. Mike Huckabee of Arkansas granted clemency to Mr. Clemmons after he had served 11 years of a 95-year sentence for robbery and burglary convictions on charges prosecuted when he was 17. That history continued to play a role in his prosecution in Washington this year, Pierce County prosecutors said.

After Mr. Clemmons was arrested in Pierce County in May on charges of assaulting officers who were investigating claims that he had broken neighbors’ windows with rocks, Arkansas issued a warrant for his arrest for violating conditions of his parole, said Stephen Penner, a deputy prosecuting attorney in Pierce County.

Mr. Clemmons was initially held without bail on the Arkansas warrant. In July, an Arkansas corrections official sent a letter revoking the hold and saying “appropriate action will be taken once the pending charges have been adjudicated.”

Without the hold from Arkansas, Mr. Penner said, the State Constitution allowed Mr. Clemmons the right to bail while the rape and assault charges were pending. He was released on $190,000 bail on Nov. 23, Mr. Penner said.

A spokeswoman for the Arkansas Department of Community Correction said officials there issued a second warrant for Mr. Clemmons in October, but it was not immediately clear whether that warrant had the power to prevent his release.

The officers who were killed were Tina Griswold, 40; Ronald Owens, 37; Sgt. Mark Renninger, 39; and Greg Richards, 42. All left behind children and families, and they were mourned at makeshift memorials at the Lakewood Police Department, at a church vigil in Tacoma and on various Web sites, including Facebook.

“We’re a young department,” Chief Bret Farrar said at a news conference on Monday. “We put this department together in 2004. The four we lost yesterday were original members of the department. They were good people, they were great officers, and we will all miss them very much.”

Lisa Price, who helped hire Officer Richards in his previous job at the Kent Police Department, said he turned to policing in 2001 at a later age than many new officers, giving him “a good mix of maturity and insight.” She said he took the Lakewood job because it seemed to hold more stability, as Kent was considering layoffs.

Brian D. Wurts, president of the Lakewood Police Independent Guild, described Officer Owens on the guild’s Web site as “the laid-back, dirt-bike-riding, surfer-hair-having cop you would always want at a party or with you on any call. Though he had a laid-back perspective, he was sharp and an extremely dedicated and hard worker.”

Sergeant Renninger served in the Army and was based at nearby Fort Lewis before becoming a police officer in the 1990s in Tukwila, a Seattle suburb. He grew up in Pennsylvania, where his brother, Matt, is also a police officer. On a Facebook page created in his honor, a former colleague in Tukwila recalled “that thick, Philly-type accent of his.”

On the guild Web site, Mr. Wurts said Officer Griswold had two children “and a husband who loves her deeply.” He recalled her as a spirited conservative who loved to talk politics and, if challenged, “would tell you where you could go.”
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,396
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2009, 10:46:19 AM »
The reports are that he was ordered to stop and did not stop. I think in such a situation an officer is authorized to shoot.

I find it interesting that in the same articles in which they report that Clemmons had received a wound (or wounds?) to the torso and had one of the Lakewood officers weapons when he was shot, they nonetheless manage to refer to him as having "allegedly" shot the four officers. I suppose their lawyers insist they use weasel words like that but, really ...

So in the space of a couple of days, four police officers are murdered in cold blood, four families are destroyed, the "alleged" perpetrator is killed without giving any statement ... what a phenomenal waste. It's just not possible to get my head around why something like this even happened. Even recognizing that the guy was a full-blown nut case with a serious hatred of cops doesn't explain it.

All I can think of is that it's such a terrible, terrible waste.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2009, 10:58:41 AM »
His sister, who saw him for a while on Thanksgiving, said he had "a good heart."

Always amazes me how blind families are about their own.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,046
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2009, 11:10:45 AM »
As a side note, it is interesting to me that Mr. Clemmons was able to get around pretty darn well for a couple of days after getting a single shot to the center of mass.  I don't know what caliber/load Lakewood uses, but not the best one-shot stop statistic here.  I will be on the lookout for any publicity on the autopsy report, especially as to the exact location of the wound sustained in Lakewood.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

taurusowner

  • Guest
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #90 on: December 01, 2009, 11:55:31 AM »
My money is on .40SW

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,732
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #91 on: December 01, 2009, 12:06:40 PM »
Murder four cops, and your days are numbered.

The only way the perp would have been apprehended alive is if he surrendered himself at a police station with lawyers and a news camera crew in tow.

And then odds are he would have "somehow" committed suicide in his cell.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #92 on: December 01, 2009, 12:23:34 PM »
Where did they report he was hit COM?
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

jackdanson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 702
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #93 on: December 01, 2009, 01:02:45 PM »
Quote
The reports are that he was ordered to stop and did not stop. I think in such a situation an officer is authorized to shoot.

Nope, must be posing a threat to you or someone else, fleeing felon doesn't cut it nowadays.  That being said, this jerk killed 4 cops, they aren't going to get in trouble for shooting him, although I can easily see the family suing the PD and winning... bleh.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #94 on: December 01, 2009, 01:10:49 PM »
Nope, must be posing a threat to you or someone else, fleeing felon doesn't cut it nowadays.  That being said, this jerk killed 4 cops, they aren't going to get in trouble for shooting him, although I can easily see the family suing the PD and winning... bleh.

I'd think that in this case, shooting him for fleeing is probably justified, no? 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

jackdanson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 702
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #95 on: December 01, 2009, 01:51:30 PM »
Quote
I'd think that in this case, shooting him for fleeing is probably justified, no? 


Ethically yes, legally maybe.

I don't know the specifics.  Even if he wasn't reaching for a gun and just sprinting away, with his history a logical argument could be made that he was posing a threat to the officers at the time.  Back in the day you could shoot a fleeing felon, rules have changed though. If someone isn't posing an immediate threat to you or someone else lethal force isn't justified.

I'm not saying I care personally, I think he got what he deserved, I just worry about the officers involved in the shooting facing legal trouble or losing their job.  I also think the family could win a lawsuit if it comes out that he was running away and they shot him in the back, that isn't exactly a clean shoot.  Despite the officers doing the right thing they could still get in trouble quite easily.

This is the reason I have a criminal law degree but decided against going into law-enforcement after getting it... too much BS and too much after-the-fact oversight from people who weren't involved at the time.

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,990
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #96 on: December 01, 2009, 02:01:01 PM »
Quote
As a side note, it is interesting to me that Mr. Clemmons was able to get around pretty darn well for a couple of days after getting a single shot to the center of mass.

Torso != COM.

It could have been a flesh wound.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #97 on: December 01, 2009, 02:28:10 PM »
Torso != COM.

It could have been a flesh wound.



What he said.  COM is a very small area, basically in the vitals.  I'd think of it as a triangle from the nipples to the belly button, as a way of over simplifing it.  Lots of spots to be hit on the torso that wouldn't be very damaging. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #98 on: December 01, 2009, 02:56:12 PM »
It wasn't like dude was just some schmoe on a street corner.  He had already demonstrated the willingness and ability to kill four people* like that <snaps fingers>.  Unless he complies, RFN, I think anyone would be justified in assuming the worst and taking action to preserve one's life.




* I deliberately wrote "people," as I get cranky when folks act like LEOs are some higher caste whose loss is somehow greater than Joe Citizen's due to their occupation.  I think it enough to consider them fellow citizens who were brutally murdered, that the crime was heinous in any case, and that the perpetrators of such acts ought to be brought to justice.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: 4 Police Officers Shot in WA
« Reply #99 on: December 01, 2009, 03:33:14 PM »
jfruser, yes to everything in your *

I think that if he had killed four "regular" people, posts hinting at special treatment would not be here.

Also, if the cop that dealt the justice was "one of us", people would be excited that "we" looked good.

The deleted killed four people in cold blood.

IMO, justice was served.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 09:47:31 PM by Gewehr98 »
One day at a time.