Author Topic: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant  (Read 8733 times)

Grandpa Shooter

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http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/21/iraq.us.soldiers.pregnancy/index.html

Now if the women weren't there to begin with.......................... ???


Washington (CNN) -- A new order from the general in charge of northern Iraq makes getting pregnant or impregnating a fellow soldier an offense punishable by court-martial.

The directive, part of a larger order restricting the behavior of the 22,000 soldiers under Gen. Anthony Cucolo's command, is meant to prevent losing soldiers at a time when troop strength is stretched thin, Cucolo explained in a statement sent to the troops under his command and provided to CNN.

"I need every soldier I've got, especially since we are facing a drawdown of forces during our mission," Cucolo wrote. "Anyone who leaves this fight earlier than the expected 12-month deployment creates a burden on their teammates. Anyone who leaves this fight early because they made a personal choice that changed their medical status -- or contributes to doing that to another -- is not in keeping with a key element of our ethos."

The rule, enacted November 4, was first reported by Stars and Stripes, a military-focused publication. It prohibits "becoming nondeployable for reasons within the control of the soldier," which include "becoming pregnant, or impregnating a soldier ... resulting in the redeployment of the pregnant soldier."

Pregnancy that arises from sexual assault would not be punished, Cucolo said.

The directive applies to all military and civilians serving under Cucolo in northern Iraq, an area that includes Balad, Kirkuk, Tikrit, Mosul and Samarra, according to the Web site of Multi-National Force Iraq.

Of the 22,000 people under Cucolo's command, 1,682 are women.

Cucolo will decide what cases will be pursued.
Video: No pregnancy, general's orders
RELATED TOPICS

    * Iraq
    * Pregnancy and Childbirth
    * Iraq War

"I am the only individual who passes judgment on these cases. I decide every case based on the unique facts of each soldier's situation," Cucolo wrote in his explanation of the new rules.

Cucolo said he considers his female soldiers "invaluable" and he wants to ensure they fulfill their deployments.

"I am responsible and accountable for the fighting ability of this outfit. I am going to do everything I can to keep my combat power -- and in the Army, combat power is the individual soldier," his statement said. "To this end, I made an existing policy stricter. I wanted to encourage my soldiers to think before they acted, and understand their behavior and actions have consequences -- all of their behavior."

In an e-mail to CNN, Cucolo stressed the rule "is just a small part of a general policy on behavior and actions," and is "lawful."

The memo outlines a long list of behaviors that are prohibited, from gambling and using drugs to behaviors that would offend Iraqis, such as entering a mosque or religious site unless "required by military necessity."

While the rules may seem unusual to some, they are not out of line with how the military regulates behavior to a much stricter degree than the general public is used to, said Eugene Fidell, who teaches military law at Yale University.

"Questions of personal autonomy play out differently in the military," Fidell said.

He said the purpose of the rule is mostly to have a "chilling effect" on behavior, but he doubts it would ever be fully prosecuted. If it were, however, it appears to be legal, he said.

"If push came to shove and there was prosecution, I think the rule would be upheld as a reasonable balance of the competing interests," he said.

It is not without precedent, Fidell said. During the Vietnam War, a female troop would be discharged for getting pregnant. That rule was challenged, but the government did not want to defend it at the time.

According to the explanation of the policy that was sent to all those affected, only a few cases have been considered for punishment under the new rules. Four soldiers have gotten pregnant since Cucolo took over command of northern Iraq operations at the beginning of November, he told CNN in an e-mail. Of the eight soldiers involved, none were court-martialed. Instead, all received a written reprimand, Cucolo said.

In one case, a male soldier received the "most severe punishment," according to the explanation sent to those serving in northern Iraq. Cucolo does not give any other details about the case except to say the soldier "committed adultery as well."

taurusowner

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 09:27:32 PM »
Good.  If the man who did the deed is a service member, he should get court-martialed too.  But I've heard of and personally seen far too many females who joined the Army for the free college money and bonuses, only to get pregnant a few months before they got called on to do some actual soldiering.  You join the service, you agree to fight when and where they tell you, no ifs ands or buts about it.  If a solider, chairmen, jarhead or squid chooses to get themselves taken out of combat readiness, it's basically malingering, and should be punished accordingly.

Gewehr98

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 10:30:19 PM »
Quote
Now if the women weren't there to begin with..........................

Oh, gawd.

Not this again...

They're even voting now, GS.  Terrible thing, I tell you.   =(
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RevDisk

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 10:46:48 PM »
Now if the women weren't there to begin with.......................... ???

You'd be short by thousands of trained soldiers.   Even with the bad economy, getting enough good soldiers have never been an easy task.  I served in integrated units.  There are fewer and fewer non-integrated units these days.  Not so much from PC BS, but basic necessity.  Medics, commo, etc are MOS's that require lengthy training and relatively high knowledge to do.  You cannot just grab any guy off the street and make them a medic or commo wizard.  If they happen to suck with a rifle, you can teach them "enough" in days if not hours.  The reverse is not true.

If you were a commander, Grandpa, and you were faced with female soldiers in your unit (which I gather you have some reservations?) or no medics/commo, what would your decision be?
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roo_ster

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 10:52:11 PM »
Some units get by fine with only male soldiers.

FTR, I am not against any women in the service, just using some sense as to their use & deployment.
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Balog

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 11:03:29 PM »
Some units get by fine with only male soldiers.

FTR, I am not against any women in the service, just using some sense as to their use & deployment.

/gasp

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RevDisk

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2009, 12:05:47 AM »
Some units get by fine with only male soldiers.

Obviously.  I'm not an "integration at bayonet point" kind of guy.  I'm just pointing out that female soldiers are not worthless either. 
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Balog

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 12:18:48 AM »
Obviously.  I'm not an "integration at bayonet point" kind of guy.  I'm just pointing out that female soldiers are not worthless either. 

I've yet to see anyone say they are. Although apparently saying women shouldn't be infantry is taken that way by too many people on here...  =|
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BridgeRunner

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 12:19:42 AM »
I'm just pointing out that female soldiers are not worthless either. 

Unless they are pregnant, when they come close to it.

I'm not sure why this is an issue.  Isn't it a pretty basic fact of military life that one's personal choices are rather seriously constrained?  I'm pretty darned feminist and I don't see an issue with this, so long as the donator of the sperm is subject is subject to the same penalties.

Frank Castle

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 01:32:52 AM »
After 2 deployments................

I've seen just about every excuses not to deploy! :mad:






Grandpa Shooter

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2009, 01:36:33 AM »
Oh, gawd.

Not this again...

They're even voting now, GS.  Terrible thing, I tell you.   =(

Why yes, this again.  I don't believe in integrated units in combat zones.  I believe our Nation is not well served by having females in harm's way.  Tell me all you want about equal rights and feminism, and I will still hold doors for Ladies, stop to help them whenever possible and put them on a pedestal expressly for being female.

Yup, I am old fashioned that way.

jackdanson

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 01:48:37 AM »
Is this the first time this has happened?  If so, bravo military, I would have expected these things left and right.

Quote
Why yes, this again.  I don't believe in integrated units in combat zones.  I believe our Nation is not well served by having females in harm's way.  Tell me all you want about equal rights and feminism, and I will still hold doors for Ladies, stop to help them whenever possible and put them on a pedestal expressly for being female.

Yup, I am old fashioned that way.

You hate women, admit it!!   =D  Or wait, do you hate men?  Why won't you open the door for me, you sexist?

Understand your view... don't agree with it... but understand it.  You need to meet my wife, ruthless, I tell you.

Grandpa Shooter

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2009, 02:01:12 AM »
Is this the first time this has happened?  If so, bravo military, I would have expected these things left and right.

You hate women, admit it!!   =D  Or wait, do you hate men?  Why won't you open the door for me, you sexist?

Understand your view... don't agree with it... but understand it.  You need to meet my wife, ruthless, I tell you.

I do hold doors for anyone behind me, including you. ;/  Sexist?  Why yes I have been called that too.  I expect my wife to take my last name, in fact wouldn't marry one who wouldn't.  We both wear the traditional wedding rings and aknowledge that men and women were created for different functions in life.  The old hunter/protector and nuturer/comforter stuff.  Old fashioned, but still my way of seeing things.  By the way, it is the way my wife sees things too.

Gewehr98

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2009, 02:25:36 AM »
How very quaint.

And totally archaic, in the military scheme of things.

I've had fellow female recce aircrew in POW training and Advanced Beatings with me. 

We got desensitized to the fact that they were in harm's way, same as us, pretty darned quickly.

Know what?  They scream just as loudly during torture as we do.  Funny, that. Our "sessions" were videotaped and critiqued afterwards in front of the students and staff. The Combat Crew Training Commander reminded us that we Americans are very ingrained into protecting our women, almost automatically volunteering to take the place of the females screaming during the sessions due to some sense of obligation.  He quickly disabused us of the notion.

I'll skip the classified parts, but in a nutshell, they signed on the same dotted line, took the same oath, and went about their business just as seriously, if not more, than their male counterparts.

I hold doors open for them, too.  Not because they're ladies, but because I'm a gentleman, and if they dislike my doing so, I respect that, too.

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jackdanson

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2009, 02:32:55 AM »
heh, I was just messin with ya.  I don't think you're a sexist.  I actually agree with you, mostly.  I just think that the recent wars have proven that our military is (generally) mature enough to handle mixed company.  I'm pleasantly surprised that this doesn't happen substantially more often.  I also think that some women can be just as effective in combat as men are.

Laurent du Var

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2009, 04:12:58 AM »
If you enlist young women there will be pregnancies which is always a good thing.
The choice between sending a woman into a combat zone where she has to kill or can get
killed herself or getting pregnant to give life seems an easy one to me. I'd award a medal,
a honorable discharge and give some monthly rent to bring up the kid, but that's just me. 
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slugcatcher

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2009, 08:10:03 AM »
If you enlist young women there will be pregnancies which is always a good thing.
The choice between sending a woman into a combat zone where she has to kill or can get
killed herself or getting pregnant to give life seems an easy one to me. I'd award a medal,
a honorable discharge and give some monthly rent to bring up the kid, but that's just me. 

You've got to be kidding me. An honorable discharge, a medal and welfare for lying on her back? Excuse me for being crude but this is asinine.

Jamisjockey

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2009, 08:19:02 AM »
You've got to be kidding me. An honorable discharge, a medal and welfare for lying on her back? Excuse me for being crude but this is asinine.   European.

FTFY


Color me unsympathetic of the women.  If you're a man, and you intentionally shoot yourself in the foot to get out of deployment, you should face the same courts martial. 
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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2009, 08:25:38 AM »
Although it is not listed in the article in the OP, I noticed that having sex with Iraqi nationals is also punishable by court-martial as well. 
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BryanP

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 08:27:51 AM »
I'm surprised no one has suggested that soldiers be given a mandatory contraceptive implant before deployment.  We already have Norplant for women.  I don't doubt something similar could be developed for men.
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slugcatcher

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 09:03:26 AM »
I'm surprised no one has suggested that soldiers be given a mandatory contraceptive implant before deployment.  We already have Norplant for women.  I don't doubt something similar could be developed for men.

Wow. Just like handing out condoms in schools. How about some discipline instead?

BryanP

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2009, 09:25:40 AM »
Wow. Just like handing out condoms in schools. How about some discipline instead?

More like "expect the best, plan for the worst."
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MechAg94

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2009, 09:28:43 AM »
Quote
The directive applies to all military and civilians serving under Cucolo in northern Iraq
How does that bold part work? 
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41magsnub

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2009, 09:50:55 AM »
I don't have a problem with this rule at all.  If you are deployed or about to be deployed and you voluntarily do something that renders you undeployable there should be consequences.  Pregnancy just gets more press attention and raises the hackles of more folks.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 10:02:49 AM by 41magsnub »

Stand_watie

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2009, 10:10:38 AM »
How does that bold part work? 

Left italic, letter b, right italic, insert text, left italic, letter b, backslash, right italic.
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