Author Topic: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant  (Read 8734 times)

GigaBuist

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2009, 10:17:13 AM »
I'd just like to point out this probably isn't as much a problem with homosexuals.  Let 'em in!

jackdanson

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2009, 10:56:56 AM »
I can see it now.  Gigabust's Gay Grenadiers.  Might bring some style to the tacticool movement.

slugcatcher

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2009, 11:33:16 AM »
I can see it now.  Gigabust's Gay Grenadiers.  Might bring some style to the tacticool movement.

Then we'll have tactical boa's in pink urban camo.

Scout26

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2009, 11:47:27 AM »
Oh, gawd.

Not this again...

They're even voting now, GS.  Terrible thing, I tell you.   =(

I said letting them wear shoes would be the slippery slope..... :P
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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for the motherland.

Gewehr98

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2009, 01:59:19 PM »
Hell, looks like letting them out of the kitchen was a bad move, according to some here...  :-X
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slugcatcher

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2009, 02:05:55 PM »
Hell, looks like letting them out of the kitchen was a bad move, according to some here...  :-X

Oh crap! When did this happen? =D

CAnnoneer

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2009, 02:37:17 PM »
What is the combat usefulness of a soldier that would get pregnant and raise a child specifically to avoid serving?

If on the other hand, the pregnancy was unplanned, it seems rather asinine and dehumanizing to punish the expectant mother.

As far as women in the military go, it is not a conscription. If they believe they want and can serve, then admit them based on their abilities. Holding them back just because they have a uterus is rather silly and ultimately unfair. There are plenty of uteri to go around in the homeland. Unlike Europe or Russia, the US does not seem to have an acute demographic problem.

Phantom Warrior

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2009, 02:50:54 PM »
Left italic, letter b, right italic, insert text, left italic, letter b, backslash, right italic.

Left bracket ( "[" ), letter b, right bracket, insert text, left bracket, backslash, letter b, right bracket.

Should look something like this...

[ b]insert text[/b]

Except without the space before the first b (fastest way I could think of to show the code without it taking effect).  Or you could just highlight the text and click the bold B in the upper left corner of the "Post reply" box.



On the original subject, the CG is already backing off on his threat according to this article.

Grandpa Shooter

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2009, 03:06:14 PM »
Oh, gawd.

Not this again...

They're even voting now, GS.  Terrible thing, I tell you.   =(


Hey you can't blame me for that.  I wasn't around when they voted that in. >:D

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2009, 03:33:48 PM »
Military personnel aren't known for celibacy, historically speaking. Bringing women into the military won't change that. Might reduce the chances of troopies running off and cavorting with local women, and Al-Jazeera playing it as "Crusaders rape Afghan women!"

I can see it now.  Gigabust's Gay Grenadiers.  Might bring some style to the tacticool movement.
:lol:

Somehow, the issue of pregnant soldiers brings to my warped mind the visual of a lady pilot flying CAS.
"Bravo two zero, this is Baby Mama. My water just broke. Returning to base. You guys are on your own."

Balog

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2009, 03:57:05 PM »
Men have been charged after getting bad sunburns that render them unable to do their jobs. Jus' saying...
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MechAg94

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2009, 04:13:44 PM »
The article said the civilians were included.  How would the Army punish civilians if at all?  Fire them?  Cut their pay? 

As far as bolding:  you were both wrong.  
1.  Type your message or copy/paste or whatever.
2.  Highlight text to be bolded.
3.  Hit the B button above.  
4.  Let the software work for you.
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BryanP

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2009, 04:24:03 PM »
Hell, looks like letting them out of the kitchen was a bad move, according to some here...  :-X

Teaching them to read ... that was the first mistake.  :laugh:
"Inaccurately attributed quotes are the bane of the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

Tallpine

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2009, 04:38:34 PM »
Quote
I'm pretty darned feminist and I don't see an issue with this, so long as the donator of the sperm is subject is subject to the same penalties.

What about her husband  ??? 



Quote
"Bravo two zero, this is Baby Mama. My water just broke. Returning to base. You guys are on your own."

Women are tough.  They can stay on duty right up until they pop, take a few hours off, and go back to work.  :P  =D


(actually, I'm rather old-fashioned and mostly agree with GS  ;) )

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2009, 04:49:40 PM »
Teaching them to read ... that was the first mistake.  :laugh:
How are they gonna cook if they can't read the cookbook? :P

MechAg94

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2009, 04:53:33 PM »
How are they gonna cook if they can't read the cookbook? :P
If they didn't go to school, they could stay home and learn it the traditional way.  :D

(Is this getting out of hand?)
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2009, 05:26:57 PM »
Teaching them to read ... that was the first mistake.  :laugh:

Darn, why didn't I think of that? :lol:

Matthew Carberry

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Re: U.S. soldiers in Iraq could face courts-martial for getting pregnant
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2009, 05:27:17 PM »
It shouldn't matter if the pregnancy was "unintended".

As noted, if I get wasted on Friday, pass out in the sun Saturday and am unfit for duty due to severe sunburn come Monday formation I have reduced my unit's combat effectiveness.

True, it was "unintentional", but it was also clearly due to making a series of choices that could reasonably and quite foreseeably lead to that end.

You want to play you have to be willing to pay.  

For a guy, you have only a few limited ways to proactively affect the outcome from your end of the transaction.  For a female servicemember you have several that are more or less foolproof and free.  It behooves you to use them if you want to choose to engage in potentially career-affecting behavior while under such orders.

Suck it up.  Be disciplined or take precautions.  Don't go whining about "reproductive rights" or "fairness" or other nonsense.
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Grandpa Shooter

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Pregnant soldiers won't be court-martialed, commander says
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2009, 10:22:05 PM »
The gentleman has apparently reversed himself on this. ???



The commander who instituted a policy cracking down on pregnancy among soldiers defended it Tuesday as necessary to maintain troop strength, but said no soldier would ever be court-martialed for violating the directive.

The policy -- which would punish soldiers who get pregnant or impregnate another soldier -- was included in Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo's orders to troops regarding conduct while deployed under his command in northern Iraq.

Cucolo, who has 22,000 people under his command, including 1,682 women, said the policy is meant to make his soldiers "think before they act."

"The main reason why I did this was my intense desire to maintain my fighting strength any way possible in a very tough and complex mission that includes a drawdown," he told reporters in a conference call Tuesday. "The consequence of them departing early is they're leaving their team, their unit, shorthanded with their special skills."

The specific rule in the general order prohibits "becoming nondeployable for reasons within the control of the soldier," which includes "becoming pregnant, or impregnating a soldier ... resulting in the redeployment of the pregnant soldier."

Pregnancy that arises from sexual assault would not be punished, Cucolo said.

The directive applies to all military and civilians serving under Cucolo in northern Iraq, an area that includes Balad, Kirkuk, Tikrit, Mosul and Samarra, according to the Web site of Multi-National Force Iraq.
Video: No pregnancy, general's orders
Video: Pregnancy punishment
RELATED TOPICS

    * Iraq
    * Pregnancy and Childbirth
    * Iraq War

While violation of any of the rules in "General Order Number 1" could lead to court-martial, Cucolo said he never intended such a drastic punishment for pregnancy.

"I believe that I can handle violations of this aspect with lesser degrees of punishment," Cucolo told reporters. "I have not ever considered court-martial for this. I do not ever see myself putting a soldier in jail for this."

The general said he alone would decide on each case based on the individual circumstances.

To date, he said, there have been eight cases of women getting pregnant while deployed under his command. Four were given letters of reprimand that were put in their local files, which means they would not end up in their permanent files and they would not be a factor in being considered for promotions. The four other women found out they were pregnant soon after they deployed; because they were not impregnated while deployed, no disciplinary action was taken.

In all cases, the women were sent back to the United States for medical care, as is military policy. Each has the right to submit a letter in her own defense to be included in her file.

Of the men involved, three were reprimanded, Cucolo said. One, a sergeant, was given a more severe punishment of a written reprimand in his permanent file because he fraternized with a subordinate and committed adultery. A letter in the permanent file can affect a person's career as it is considered when a service member is up for promotion.

A fourth man was never reprimanded because the pregnant soldier refused to identify who the father was and Cucolo did not pursue the issue.

Every unit has a General Order that outlines code of conduct. Commanders are allowed to add to those rules but are not allowed to make the rules any more lax. Cucolo wrote the additional rule after consulting with his commanders, lawyers and subordinate officers, including two female officers who both "supported it 100 percent," he said.

The policy has generated intense debate since it was reported on over the weekend. CNN's report has generated more than 900 comments from readers on CNN.com.

"People who sign up for the military should expect to have rules & regulations -- that's all this is," one person wrote on the site.

"This must be a joke. It needs to be fought and is another realization of the failures of our military leadership. They have put their careers before their consciences," wrote another reader.

Cucolo said that as a former public affairs officer, he realized when he created the rule that it would be controversial for those outside the military.

"When I wrote this, I knew there would be public interest, and I also knew there would be a period of time when many folks would opine and give their own personal thoughts and blog about it. And I am fine with that. That's America," he said. "But I was also willing to deal with this attention because this is important. I am responsible and accountable for the fighting ability of my task force. I've got to take every measure to preserve my combat power, and that's the reason."

Cucolo said that while some might see this as "treading on an intensely personal topic," he feels those in service have other personal obligations.

"Look, I realize it might be hard for those who have never served in a military unit to completely understand what I tried to explain," he told reporters. "[Leaving] those who depend on you shorthanded in a combat zone gets to be very personal for those left, too."

Despite critics, Cucolo said the inclusion of the rule was important.

"I will listen to critics and they add thought, but they actually don't have to do anything. I have to accomplish a very complex mission -- very complex," he said. "I'm going to do what it takes to maintain our strength and bring as many home as I can. ... I believe the American people expect me to do everything I can to keep every one of the soldiers that their money, their taxpayer dollars, trained and got ready for this in the fight."

Standing Wolf

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Re: Pregnant soldiers won't be court-martialed, commander says
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2009, 11:09:25 PM »
Making threats you have no intention of making good on...

Aw, never mind.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

seeker_two

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Re: Pregnant soldiers won't be court-martialed, commander says
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2009, 11:34:38 PM »
Making threats you have no intention of making good on...


It's the Democratic Way....on foreign policy, at least....

I'm surprised that this guy didn't get demoted to PFC by the CinC himself....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

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Re: Pregnant soldiers won't be court-martialed, commander says
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2009, 12:20:02 AM »
Probably got some 2LT pregnant himself.  :P
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Gewehr98

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Re: Pregnant soldiers won't be court-martialed, commander says
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2009, 12:37:51 AM »
He knew it wouldn't stand up to UCMJ scrutiny.

Case closed. 
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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