Author Topic: Global Warming?  (Read 5069 times)

Bob F.

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Global Warming?
« on: December 24, 2009, 07:40:37 PM »
From the founder of the Weather Channel, well worth watching. But it's not on MSM!?!?!?

http://www.kusi.com/home/78477082.html?video=pop&t=a

Stay safe. And warm!
Bob
"I always have my primary weapon, it's right between my ears."

geronimotwo

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 07:55:52 PM »
damn......well.....ozone ozone ozone!!!  save the ozone !!!
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Silver Bullet

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 09:28:35 PM »
"Global Warming:O :O :O

Do we really need another religion ?   :angel:

Ron

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 11:30:09 PM »
I grew up watching John.

He isn't afraid to call 'em as he sees 'em.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2009, 03:15:48 PM »
I grew up watching John.

He isn't afraid to call 'em as he sees 'em.



I like John Coleman. I think it was in 1999, he called for 24 inches of snow in Chicago (on the phone with Roe Conn and Gary Meyer) , when all other forecasters were saying like 6 to 9 inches. Chicago got HAMMERED!. He made the same sort of call many years before as well.

He knows weather. He got squeezed out of the Weather Channel, although I can't remember the details.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Sindawe

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2009, 03:36:27 PM »
[fingers in the ears]

LALALALALALALALA!

Pay no attention to the man in front of the green screen!  He is a heratic! 

Global warming must be stopped at all costs!

LALALALALALALALA!

[/fingers in the ears]

Nice summation of the data about the actual climate events, in both long term (for us at least) and more recent events.  Thanks for posting it, gonna have to send it about in email.
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HankB

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2009, 05:47:59 PM »
I grew up watching John.
Same here. (Grew up in Chicago.)

If I ever meet the guy in person, I'm going to buy him a beer - here's why:

During a debate about AGW with one of our liberals at work, he mentioned that Heidi Cullen, one of the meteorologists at The Weather Channel, was a staunch defender of theories that humans were causing global warming. (If you recall, she even asserted that any meteorologist who said otherwise should have his credentials yanked. Seriously.)

You should have seen the guy's face when I pointed out that the FOUNDER of The Weather Channel disagreed. (My expert trumped his - Unfair! Unfair!)
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Northwoods

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2009, 06:01:30 PM »
I've been slowly plowing my way though this article (h/t Smallest Minority).  It brings up a few questions that I never see anybody answer (even the skeptics) that I've also been wondering about for some time (I have my own ideas as to the answers of course).

1. What are the benefits of global warming?
2. What are the benefits of global cooling? (this is alluded to in some respects by the AGW crowd's answer to What's the downsides of global warming?, but it is not explicitly covered)
3. What are the downsides of global cooling?

Until those questions are answered how can we possibly formulate a sensible policy to deal with climate change?  Because if the answer to #3 is such that such is worse than the downsides of GW why put so much effort into stopping GW?  Assuming that it is even possible to do so anyway?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 06:06:42 PM by sumpnz »
Formerly sumpnz

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2009, 06:40:02 PM »
Those are some excellent questions sumpnz, questions I would like answers to
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Bigjake

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2009, 08:03:34 PM »
I've been slowly plowing my way though this article (h/t Smallest Minority).  It brings up a few questions that I never see anybody answer (even the skeptics) that I've also been wondering about for some time (I have my own ideas as to the answers of course).

1. What are the benefits of global warming?
2. What are the benefits of global cooling? (this is alluded to in some respects by the AGW crowd's answer to What's the downsides of global warming?, but it is not explicitly covered)
3. What are the downsides of global cooling?

Until those questions are answered how can we possibly formulate a sensible policy to deal with climate change?  Because if the answer to #3 is such that such is worse than the downsides of GW why put so much effort into stopping GW?  Assuming that it is even possible to do so anyway?


MAN caused GW!!!!!   DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING???  AND THE ONLY SOLUTION IS LOTS AND LOTS OF TAXES!! 



 :P

Desertdog

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2009, 01:51:16 AM »
Quote
I've been slowly plowing my way though this article (h/t Smallest Minority).  It brings up a few questions that I never see anybody answer (even the skeptics) that I've also been wondering about for some time (I have my own ideas as to the answers of course).

1. What are the benefits of global warming?
2. What are the benefits of global cooling? (this is alluded to in some respects by the AGW crowd's answer to What's the downsides of global warming?, but it is not explicitly covered)
3. What are the downsides of global cooling?

Until those questions are answered how can we possibly formulate a sensible policy to deal with climate change?  Because if the answer to #3 is such that such is worse than the downsides of GW why put so much effort into stopping GW?  Assuming that it is even possible to do so anyway?

Put "Benifits of Global Warming " in your search engine and you will find a number of answers.

This is the beginning of the first Article.  More benifits for GW than GC.


Health and Amenity Effects of Global Warming
Revised May 30, 1996

(c)Thomas Gale Moore
Senior Fellow
Hoover Institution
Stanford University

JEL Code: J17, J31, Q25


Key Words: Global Warming, Amenity Values, Value of Life, Death Rates.


I would like to thank Michael S. Bernstam, Milton Friedman, Harry Gilman, Kenneth L. Judd, Edward Lazear, Charles G. Moore, and S. Fred Singer for helpful comments and suggestions on earlier drafts of this paper.



Abstract
A somewhat warmer climate would probably reduce mortality in the United States and provide Americans with valuable benefits. Regressions of death rates in Washington, DC, and in some 89 urban counties scattered across the nation on climate and demographic variables demonstrate that warmer temperatures reduce deaths. The results imply that a 2.5deg. Celsius warming would lower deaths in the United States by about 40,000 per year. Although the data on illness are poor, the numbers indicate that warming might reduce medical costs by about $20 billion annually. Utilizing willingness to pay as a measure of preference, this paper regresses wage rates for a few narrowly defined occupations in metropolitan areas on measures of temperature and size of city and finds that people prefer warm climates. Workers today would be willing to give up between $30 billion and $100 billion annually in wages for a 2.5deg.C increase in temperatures.

Health and Amenity Effects of Global Warming

I. Introduction

Many researchers, environmentalists, and politicians are forecasting that rising world temperatures in the next century will have devastating effects on humans (Committee on Science, Engineering, and Public Policy, et al. 1991; Mitchell 1991; Cline 1992; Gore 1992; IPCC 1992). Although the calamities are barely spelled out, some scholars and writers have pointed to a warmer climate's being less healthful. Referring to the world as a whole, Working Group II of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change asserted (IPCC 1995, p. SPM-10): "Climate change is likely to have wide-ranging and mostly adverse impacts on human health, with significant loss of life." The IPCC report feared that increases in heat waves would cause a rise in deaths from cardiorespiratory complications. It also foresaw a rise in vector-borne diseases, such as malaria and dengue and yellow fevers. The report did acknowledge briefly that in colder regions there would be fewer cold-related deaths.
The few studies that have examined the relation between warming and human health or mortality in depth have focused either on increases in the number of days of very hot weather and the resulting mortality or on the spread of infectious diseases by such vectors as mosquitoes, flies, and snails (Smith and Tirpak 1989; Kalkstein 1991; Stone 1995). Several major studies of the implications of global warming for the United States have neglected or claimed a lack of data on the effects on health or human welfare (National Research Council 1978; Nordhaus 1991; Cline 1992). This study examines the overall effect of climate and, in particular, temperatures on mortality in the United States and the value people put on a warmer environment.

Rarely has any research explored people's preferences for less chilly weather. Given the circumstantial evidence that people prefer warm climates over cold, it is somewhat surprising that the effects of warming on human well-being have essentially been ignored. We do know that many people upon retiring flee to southern and warmer locales. According to a survey of people turning 50 in 1996, almost 40 percent plan to move when they retire and the most important criterion in selecting their destination (40 percent) is a "more favorable climate" (USA Today, May 13, 1996, p. B1). Folklore alleges that physicians sometimes recommend that patients escape to a warmer climate, never to a colder one. Presumably retirees, at least, find that higher temperatures improve their welfare. As air-conditioning has mitigated the rigors of hot summers, the population of the United States has been moving South and West, towards climates that enjoy less extreme cold weather. Most Americans and Canadians taking vacations in the winter head to Florida, the Caribbean, Mexico, Hawaii, or southern California. Exceptions crowd the ski slopes, but they are a minority.

To my knowledge only one study (Hoch and Drake 1974) -- summarized in the U.S. Department of Transportation research described below -- has examined the preferences of people for various climates, an important measure of how weather affects human welfare. Many studies that have examined the quality of life in various urban areas, however, have found that warmer climates were correlated with a willingness to accept lower wages (e.g., Hoch 1974 & 1977; Cropper and Arriaga-Salinas 1980; Cropper 1981; Roback 1982 & 1988; Gyourko and Tracy 1991). As a gauge of preferences, that research and this paper both use workers' willingness to pay for a better climate as measured by the differential in wages among cities.


II. Health Effects

A. Past Research

In the early 1970s, the U.S. Department of Transportation sponsored a series of conferences on climate change that examined, among other things, the effect of climate on health care expenditures and on preferences of workers for various climates. At that time, the government and most observers were concerned about possible cooling of the globe. The Department organized the meetings because it planned to subsidize the development and construction of a large fleet of supersonic aircraft that environmentalists contended would affect the world's climate.
The third gathering, held in February 1974, examined the implications of climate change for the economy and people's well-being and included a study of the costs to human health from cooling, especially any increased expenses for doctors' services, visits to hospitals, and additional medication (Anderson 1974). For that meeting, the Department asked the researchers to consider a cooling of 2deg.C and a warming of 0.5deg.C. Robert Anderson, Jr., the economist who calculated health care outlays, made no estimate of the costs or savings should the climate warm; but his numbers show that for every 5 percent reduction in the annual number of heating degree days, a measure of winter's chill, health care costs would fall by $0.6 billion (1971 dollars).[1] In his paper summarizing the various studies on economic costs and benefits of climate change, Ralph D'Arge (1974), the principal economist involved in the DOT project, indicated that a 10 percent shift in degree days would be equivalent to a 1deg.C change in temperature. Thus the gain in reduced health costs from a warming of 2.5deg.C would be on the order of $3.0 billion in 1971 dollars or $21.7 billion in 1994 dollars, adjusting for population growth and price changes (using the price index for medical care).

A more recent set of studies has focused on excessive mortality related to heat spells in major cities (Bridger and Helfand 1968; Oechsli and Buechley 1970; Ellis 1972; Ellis et al. 1975; Weiner 1984; Kalkstein and Davis 1989; World Health Organization 1990; Kalkstein 1991). These studies have typically found a rise in deaths during periods of very hot weather for certain cities. The results have not, however, applied to all hot spells or to all cities. Work concerned with "killer" heat waves has generally ignored the reduction in mortality that warmer winter months would bring (e.g. Stone 1995).

Continued at;
 http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/health.html

Perd Hapley

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2009, 01:55:36 AM »
Benefits of Global Warming. 

1.  fistful will spend more time hiding from the harsh rays of the sun.  Probably near a computer.  Probably filling APS with his wisdom. 


Enjoy.   =|
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Silver Bullet

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2009, 02:25:46 AM »

MAN caused GW!!!!!   DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING???  AND THE ONLY SOLUTION IS LOTS AND LOTS OF TAXES!! 



 :P

:lol: :lol: :lol:


coppertales

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2009, 11:15:37 AM »
Global warming is a big bunch of hooey.  Follow the money.  Do I care about global warming?  NO.  The hippies and such have been harping about this for 40 years to no avail.  When someone wants to debate the topic, I just say life is too short to waste time on a bunch of hooey, and walk away.  I will NEVER be convenced otherwise so don't even try.....chris3

stevelyn

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2009, 06:51:08 PM »
Global warming is a big bunch of hooey.  Follow the money.  Do I care about global warming?  NO.  The hippies and such have been harping about this for 40 years to no avail.  When someone wants to debate the topic, I just say life is too short to waste time on a bunch of hooey, and walk away.  I will NEVER be convenced otherwise so don't even try.....chris3

I agree. All you have to do is look at who on the list of usual suspects are trying to sell the scam and that'll tell you everything you need to know about global warming
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MechAg94

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2009, 10:22:57 PM »
There are no positive effects of Global Warming.  Don't you understand?  All of our rigged models show that the temperatures will just keep going up until all the ice caps melt and we all die on scorched earth.  It will just keep getting HOTTER AND HOTTER UNTIL THE EARTH IS A BIG BALL OF LAVA!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 10:37:53 PM by MechAg94 »
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brimic

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2009, 12:32:03 AM »
Quote
There are no positive effects of Global Warming.  Don't you understand?  All of our rigged models show that the temperatures will just keep going up until all the ice caps melt and we all die on scorched earth.  It will just keep getting HOTTER AND HOTTER UNTIL THE EARTH IS A BIG BALL OF LAVA!!!!!!

LOL. You are wrong. If we simply ignore the data from the past 2 months, the mean temperature will eventually reach absolute zero (within months) and all life will cease. >:D
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thumbody

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2009, 08:12:32 AM »
But why would the "experts" lie to us?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847227/Questions-over-business-deals-of-UN-climate-change-guru-Dr-Rajendra-Pachauri.html

They are only trying to save us from ourselves,right?
I'm OK it's the rest of the world that's messed up

richyoung

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2009, 01:11:50 PM »
I've been slowly plowing my way though this article (h/t Smallest Minority).  It brings up a few questions that I never see anybody answer (even the skeptics) that I've also been wondering about for some time (I have my own ideas as to the answers of course).

1. What are the benefits of global warming?

IF you mean global warming associated with an increase in CO2 - the benefits are:

Longer growing seasons
Higher crop yields
Lower water requirements for crops, coupled with...
Increased moisture from precipitation
Areas that are now not arable become usable for crops
Possible reversal of desertification in areas like the Sahara
Lower utility bills in the winter, possibly offset by higher utility bills in the summer
Less disease

Quote
2. What are the benefits of global cooling? (this is alluded to in some respects by the AGW crowd's answer to What's the downsides of global warming?, but it is not explicitly covered)

NONE.

Quote
3. What are the downsides of global cooling?

Disease,
Pestilence,
Famine,
...pretty much all four horses of the appocolypse

Quote
Until those questions are answered how can we possibly formulate a sensible policy to deal with climate change?  Because if the answer to #3 is such that such is worse than the downsides of GW why put so much effort into stopping GW?  Assuming that it is even possible to do so anyway?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

Jamisjockey

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2009, 02:17:48 PM »
Summer means more women in sundresses, more time at the beach, more bikinis.  Global warming means more summer.  Downside.....none!
JD

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Tallpine

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2009, 03:11:56 PM »
Quote
What are the benefits of global cooling?

Drastic population reductions  =|   :O

Hordes of Canadians sacking D.C.  =D
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Bigjake

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 09:58:18 PM »
Summer means more women in sundresses, more time at the beach, more bikinis.  Global warming means more summer.  Downside.....none!

I've been offline for a bit, but this is worth resurrecting.. 

Global Warming FTW!!  :laugh:

RocketMan

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2010, 07:57:17 PM »
Moar better globular woerming stuff.  Very amusing.

The complete story from the UK Times Online is here.

Quote
From The Sunday Times  January 17, 2010

World Misled Over Himalayan Glacier Meltdown

A warning that climate change will melt most of the Himalayan glaciers by 2035 is likely to be retracted after a series of scientific blunders by the United Nations body that issued it.

Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035.

In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report.

It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.

It's good to base scientific proclamations on nothing more than speculation.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 08:07:44 PM by RocketMan »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Bob F.

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2010, 09:57:54 PM »


2' of snow on the freakin' porch, 3.5' around the back, but can see bare concrete 10' from the house!

Threw the snowshoes (bought as a gag 4 yrs ago!) in the back of the Escape, just in case!

Bob
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RocketMan

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Re: Global Warming?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2010, 11:36:02 PM »
I know we joke from time to time about how the greenies' real agenda is them actually wanting mankind to become extinct.  If mankind did not exist, the Earth would return to some mythical pristine condition.  Check this out.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.