What is your take on the homeless?

[RevDisk]

I generally don't give to the homeless or homeless associations.  I have specific charities to which I donate.  NRA, EFF, etc.  I'm not opposed to kicking a couple bucks to the Salvation Army, but I won't lie, it's not my first priority.

Unfortunately, a large number of homeless people are either addicts (alcohol or drugs) or mentally unstable.  Neither particularly want actual help in improving their situation.  There are a large number of legitimately down on their luck folks that really do just need a helping hand.  Problem is, I don't know how to effectively help those people and not the previous two groups.  If a friend or associate needs help, I can, have and will help them as much as I possibly can.  Heck, if it's anyone that I reasonably know is not conning me, I'll lend a hand to varying degrees.  I just don't like tossing my money down a hole where it will not be doing any good.  It is not only a waste, but it's actively taking from folks that can do good.  When I donate to a specific group, I know what I'm getting for my money.  I'm hesitant to give money to groups where I can't somewhat accurately gauge the impact.

[Bigjake]

I'll donate to the Salvation Army, or a church if I think they've got a worthy charity.  Going straight to the end user?  Nah. 

I have done the "At least he's honest" donation before to a bum with a sign that stated he needed the money to get drunk.  Truth in advertising 


Besides,  this thread comes at the perfect time of year to get my Scrooge on:

``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population!"

Wife and I just watched the Muppet version,  Awesome 

[Perd Hapley]

Topic: What is your take on the homeless?

They taste like chicken.

[Hutch]

My take on the homeless is that they shouldn't be called "homeless".  Homelessness does not describe their problem.  Back during B41's administration, since the Berlin Wall hadn't fallen, and we hadn't invented AGW, the MSM (all there was, at the time) ginned up the "Homeless" crisis.  Tens of gazillions of Dickensian noble poor, roaming the street, y'understand.  I asked by (then) bleeding heart sister, a career bureaucrat (sp?) at HUD, whe we didn't just GIVE these people houses or condos.  Her response was illuminating.  "We can't do that.  They don't have the skills needed to manage a home".  Upon probing this thought, she reported that there were public housing tenants that didn't understand that the beds go in the small rooms, clothes go in a the closet, and you cook in that room with the stove and sink.

The problem with many, if not most, folks on the street is not homelessness.  It's a lack of life skills, whether due to mental illness or substance abuse, poor childhood/pre-natal nutrition, or what have you.  You could give every one of them a 3BR, 2BA house tomorrow, and the problem would reappear and persist within a month.

[Jocassee]

Her response was illuminating.  "We can't do that.  They don't have the skills needed to manage a home".  Upon probing this thought, she reported that there were public housing tenants that didn't understand that the beds go in the small rooms, clothes go in a the closet, and you cook in that room with the stove and sink.

This seems very odd to me...can you shed any light on it for us?

[Declaration Day]

They don't have the skills needed to manage a home".  Upon probing this thought, she reported that there were public housing tenants that didn't understand that the beds go in the small rooms, clothes go in a the closet, and you cook in that room with the stove and sink.

The problem with many, if not most, folks on the street is not homelessness.  It's a lack of life skills, whether due to mental illness or substance abuse, poor childhood/pre-natal nutrition, or what have you.  You could give every one of them a 3BR, 2BA house tomorrow, and the problem would reappear and persist within a month.

I agree with this^^^

Not too long ago the local news featured a segment on getting homeless people on their feet; they were being taught how to do mundane tasks such as filling out a check, setting an alarm clock, using a calendar, etc.  It's mind-boggling to those of us who grew up with literate and responsible parents (semi-responsible in my case) that these skills aren't universal, but they're not. 

[coppertales]

I ignore them.  I have never given a dime to them.  They choose to be what they are and probably make more money than I do panhandling.  I am not a liberal so I don't feel guilty for what they made of themselves.

Will I ever end up in that situation, no.  My home is paid for and I don't owe anyone a dime.  I start collecting social security next month.  I retire in March, hopefully.  I will be moving out of the city to a small town close to my camp about 125 miles away.  I may live at my camp but the wife says no.  She wants a regular house to live in.  chris3

[MechAg94]

I agree with this^^^

Not too long ago the local news featured a segment on getting homeless people on their feet; they were being taught how to do mundane tasks such as filling out a check, setting an alarm clock, using a calendar, etc.  It's mind-boggling to those of us who grew up with literate and responsible parents (semi-responsible in my case) that these skills aren't universal, but they're not. 

I don't think it is a matter of skills.  It is a complete inability or more likely a refusal to learn. 
Do you think all young adults are taught everything they need to know to live on their own?  Most kids lack one thing or another, but they figure it out and learn to get by.  Skills are learned by those who want to learn.  Even animals learn what they need to do to get by. 

I refuse to believe that ALL or even most of those "homeless" are in that situation because the can't learn those skills.  They just don't want to.  They live a life completely without responsibility and they don't have to.  Those who want to learn or want to get out of that situation don't stay homeless very long.  I seen and heard of too many of them who just don't want to do anything else. 

[CAnnoneer]

I don't give money. Somebody already mentioned that beggars are like pigeons - the more you give them, the more they come back. They likely won't spend much of it on food anyway. If you want to help people in need, donate food and clothes to Salvation Army. The money you give directly to beggars likely goes to local handlers and/or drug dealers.

On a related note, the aggressive beggars are the ones that really piss me off. I am a big guy, so when I say no, they take off, but I can see how older women would be half-scared /half-guilted into giving money. That is not right. There is a dangerously gray area there between begging and robbery.

Finally, if you still feel bad enough to help, but don't want them in your area, why not donate to a kitchen or a Salvation Army post in an adjacent area? That way, the word would spread that the adjacent area has more resources, and the beggars might move there.

[Gowen]

What is your take on the homeless?

I generally try not to take anything from the homeless, but some days they make more than I do in a day.

[gunsmith]

Call me crazy, but I somehow doubt that someone who has lost their home due to job loss would respond by becoming a beggar.

yup, 2 or 3 months ago, my motorcycle got towed at the same time my messenger bag got stolen with about 75 bucks. I currently am a motorcycle messenger and my company paid the fee and rescued my bike but took the entire thing ( near 400$ for 2 1/2 days ) out of my check. I was paying rent by the week in a SRO and had to vacate I spent 2 days "homeless" which consisted of hanging around till 4am, then nursing a cup of coffee at an all night diner and napping after work at one of the many AA mtngs around SF. it was hell. I hated even letting people know because I was so embarrassed...gotta go, on a borrowed laptop.

[De Selby]

I generally try not to take anything from the homeless, but some days they make more than I do in a day.

Really, I think this might be a stretch.  The most successful bum I've ever come across (the guy outside wisie's sandwich/grocery in Georgetown for you NoVa/DC people) made about $10 an hour, and that's with hordes of rich and sympathetic/drunk students passing by every day and not wanting to bother with change in their pockets. 

Homeless people get robbed/beaten/sick/dead far more frequently than the rest of us.  The people who end up on the streets normally have some kind of mental illness that prevents them from crashing with anyone who is normal enough to pay rent. 

[Balog]

Really, I think this might be a stretch.  The most successful bum I've ever come across (the guy outside wisie's sandwich/grocery in Georgetown for you NoVa/DC people) made about $10 an hour, and that's with hordes of rich and sympathetic/drunk students passing by every day and not wanting to bother with change in their pockets. 

Homeless people get robbed/beaten/sick/dead far more frequently than the rest of us.  The people who end up on the streets normally have some kind of mental illness that prevents them from crashing with anyone who is normal enough to pay rent. 

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_3_panhandling.html

People’s generosity encourages the begging. About four out of ten Denver residents gave to panhandlers, city officials determined several years ago, anteing up an estimated $4.6 million a year. Anecdotal surveys by journalists and police, and even testimony by panhandlers themselves, suggest that begging can yield anywhere from $20 to $100 a day—though police in Coos Bay, Oregon, found that local panhandlers were taking in as much as $300 a day in a Wal-Mart parking lot. “A panhandler could make thirty to forty thousand dollars a year, tax-free money,” Baker says. In Memphis, a local FOX News reporter, Jason Carter, donned old clothes and hit the streets earlier this year, earning about $10 an hour. “Just the quasi-appearance of being homeless filled my cup,” Carter observed. That all the money is beyond the tax man’s clutches adds to the allure of professional panhandling.

Keep in mind that while they're making all this tax free money, they're also sponging tens of millions in public aid, free medical care etc. Try walking in a neighborhood with bad panhandling as a small woman: the aggressive tactics you'll see are basically robbery, but because they're "just asking" it's hard to prosecute them. I'm also thinking of the memorable time a bum threatened to kill me for refusing to buy him booze...

[Balog]

Ooh poor babies, my heart bleeds for them. Just reg'lar folk who (through no fault, bad planning, or lack of preparation on their part) are forced to be beggars. Reminds me of all the people making excuses for urban youths and their crimes...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008968918_webbeggarsbash01m.html

Oregon man seriously injured in panhandler assault in Pioneer Square

An Oregon man was hospitalized with a serious head injury this week after he was assaulted trying to retrieve a necklace a panhandler snatched from him in Pioneer Square.

By Christine Clarridge

Seattle Times staff reporter

An out-of-town visitor was sent to the hospital with a serious head injury this week after he was assaulted while trying to retrieve a necklace that had been snatched off his body by a panhandler in Pioneer Square.

According to Seattle police, the 25-year-old Oregon man was near the intersection of Occidental Avenue South and Yesler Way around 1:40 a.m. on Tuesday when he was approached by a panhandler asking for money.

The panhandler grabbed the chain from the victim's neck and assaulted the victim when he tried to retrieve it, according to police.

When police arrived, they found the victim unconscious and bleeding on the ground. He was taken to Harborview Medical Center.

His assailant remains at large. Police describe him as a black male who is about 5-feet-7 and 175 pounds and who was last seen in a puffy black jacket, dark pants and white shoes. They ask anybody who saw the assault or has information about it to call 206-684-5550.

The incident is not the first of its kind.

Late last month, a man called police to say that he had been punched in the back of the head when he refused to give money to a beggar.

According to the March 20 police report, the victim was on Blanchard Avenue in Belltown at around 2 a.m. when he was approached by a panhandler.

When the victim refused to give, "he was pushed to the ground by the male and then punched in the back of the head," according to police.

That man was transported to Virginia Mason Hospital with abrasions and a "large lump" on his head.

[De Selby]

Yeah, bums have definitely been known to commit crimes.  But that doesn't mean when they're sitting out on the streets they're getting rich and living an easy life.  That part of the story, about the bum who gets rich with his coffee mug, is mainly fantasy.

Violent and unpredictable behaviour can come along with many types of mental illness and especially with drug problems.  Not too surprising.

[RevDisk]

Yeah, bums have definitely been known to commit crimes.  But that doesn't mean when they're sitting out on the streets they're getting rich and living an easy life.  That part of the story, about the bum who gets rich with his coffee mug, is mainly fantasy.

Violent and unpredictable behaviour can come along with many types of mental illness and especially with drug problems.  Not too surprising.

Still needs to be dealt with.  Problem is, it's harder to track bums who commit crimes as they don't have nearly as much to lose as most folks.  No job, permanent address or whatnot.  And they know this.  Nothing to lose means less consequences for their actions.  Which is why bums or crazies get a hair more attention from me when I'm within their doughnut of attention (roughly 25m out).   I keep a hand free and near whatever makes a handy weapon.   My CCW, a pen, whatever.  

I'm a relatively big and ugly guy, so I rarely have issues.  Which doesn't make me feel warm and squishy, it's annoying.  The scum of the earth prefer to prey on the weak, the small and the timid.  

My main annoyance is often not direct costs of "petty crime" but the secondary costs.  Stealing some CD's or change from a car has a 'direct cost' of a couple bucks to maybe $50.  But it can cost ten times that amount to replace a broken window, repair any interior damage, vacuum out the interior of glass, etc.  Plus the emotional costs, which I very much consider quite real.

I agree with Oleg.  The least of my property is worth more than a criminal's life.  I understand and respect that the law disagrees.  I fully intend to follow the laws of my state on usage of force.  Doesn't mean I have to philosophically like it.

[Hutch]

from Cmdr GraveOz(sp?)

This seems very odd to me...can you shed any light on it for us?

Did the intervening posts describe it?  If you're a teenaged mother, who was raised by someone who didn't actually "keep house" as we say, never saw a meal actually cooked or saw a load of laundry done,  never spent time with "normal" families that did this, have an IQ one or two standard deviations below average, then yeah, you might not realize that clothes go in the closet, that people rise before they would prefer, regularly show up at the appointed hour in the appointed place to perform tasks that others will direct them in and pay them for, et endless cetera.

Sad, sad, sad.

[myrockfight]

Those types of assaults are what worry me. In my first post, I mentioned that I had been chased. I was with three other people and we had refused to give a bum a handout. That guy chased us, cussing, for a block and a half. It had me worrying enough to put everyone else in front of me and I was getting ready to go with this guy. Thankfully, he finally let off and turned around. But it was getting ridiculous there for a minute. I was thinking, "This bum is really going to assault us for not giving him money."

No one made any jokes or made fun of him or provoked him in any way. But this kind of thing happens, and you need to be ready to deal with it in some way.

[gunsmith]

I was actually "homeless" a few times, never ever begged.
I would find some place to sleep for the night or more likely stay up all night and nap during the day.It happened because I was just plain smoking to much weed and drinking to much.
That was long long ago, and have been clean and sober for over 14 years now.
Very recently it happened a for two days, as soon as the holidays are over I will A:
looking for a second job B: think real hard about learning some new skills to apply to a new job.

edited to add, I was living in a run down hotel in SF and saw my neighbor on the street. He asked for "spare change because he was homeless" I told him he wasn't homeless and he became quite indignant, insisting he was homeless . I told hime he lived at the Golden Eagle hotel on Broadway room 41 and he was shocked....I told him I asked him to be quiet one night because I worked in the morning and then he wanted spare change because "I had a job" welfare paid for his room, work paid for mine right next door.
A co worker at a security job I had after 9/11 told me he panhandled a bus ticket to SF, went to a homeless shelter and they got him the same security gig I interviewed for PLUS they paid 50% of his rent, he had a nicer place then I did! All because I hate the social services system and he didn't mind staying in a shelter.
 

[vaskidmark]

Some of you need this sign.  Some of you need to relax a bit.  Some of you ......



stay safe.

skidmark

[Levant]

In the town where I work, I have complained to the manager of the Walmart store about the always-long lines at the registers. He informed me that the problem is not that Walmart wants to keep the lines long; it is that they cannot get enough employees.  All that they ask is that the employees have a relatively clean criminal record and pass a drug test.  The store doesn't even get to see the applications of those who don't pass those two requirements.  They don't see enough applications at this particular store to fill their open positions.

I suspect that McDonald's hiring requirements are even less stringent.

I have given way too much money to homeless in my life.  20 dollars to a family standing on the side of the road begging for gas money to get home from Oklahoma to Michigan only to find the same family on a different corner just a few months later.  I'm sure the 20 dollars just bought some meth or that is one stupid family.  I succumb to my own feelings of guilt for my limited success in life and give when it is clearly not necessary.  In fact, it is almost never necessary.

[Declaration Day]

I used to allocate $5 per year to beggars.  After reading this thread, it is now $0. 

[myrockfight]

I used to allocate $5 per year to beggars.  After reading this thread, it is now $0. 

Just doin' my part to make the world go 'round. Just doin' my part. 

[myrockfight]

I succumb to my own feelings of guilt for my limited success in life and give when it is clearly not necessary.  In fact, it is almost never necessary.

My friend, rest assured that it isn't necessary. Ever. To be honest. Few things are.

[Tallpine]

I'm trying to help the homeless by not being one of them