Author Topic: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil  (Read 50625 times)

Jamisjockey

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Re: Japanese ship of deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2010, 05:34:38 PM »
You're saying whales are intelligent higher mammals?  ???

Many people consider dolphins and whales to be intelligent higher mammals.  Hell, they're probably smarter than the captain of that little black "boat"...
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alex_trebek

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Re: Japanese ship of deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2010, 05:40:07 PM »
Many people consider dolphins and whales to be intelligent higher mammals.  Hell, they're probably smarter than the captain of that little black "boat"...

that maybe true, but the bar was set a little low for dolphins and whales.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2010, 05:48:42 PM »
the whales they hunt are not endangered.....



The recent confrontation in which a Japanese whaling ship, the Shonan Maru, collided with a boat attempting to block the ship's hunt, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's Ady Gil, brought back to the fore a controversy that turns on a whale-sized loophole in the International Whaling Commission protocol governing the hunting of whales worldwide.

Established when the International Convention on the Regulation of Whaling was signed in 1946, the International Whaling Commission regulates the killing of whales worldwide in order to protect whale stocks, many of which had either been or were on the verge of being hunted to extinction. From 15 member states at its founding, the commission now includes representatives from 88 states that have signed the convention, including Japan.

IWC member states agree to abide by limits on the number of whales of various species that may be caught for commercial use, with a provision that allows for any member state to object to a restriction which it sees as harmful to its interests. States that so object need not abide by the restrictions. Japan invoked this provision of the IWC's whaling protocol to ignore a worldwide moratorium on commercial whaling the commission imposed in 1982, to begin in 1986.

Pressure from the United States, whose Congress approved legislation that forbade countries that did not abide by international fisheries protection agreements from fishing in American waters, led Japan to drop its objection in 1985 and agree to abide by the moratorium beginning in 1988. Yet Japanese whaling boats have caught more than 11,000 whales since that year.

Japan has been able to do this because of another provision in the IWC protocol that allows member states to issue permits to themselves to kill whales for scientific research purposes. Currently, Japanese boats take 1,300 whales a year under this provision of the protocol in two main regions: the North Pacific and the Antartic. Some of Japan's Antarctic whaling takes place in an area the IWC declared a whale sanctuary, which has raised the hackles of nearby Australia.

Most of the nations opposed to whaling, which now make up a slight majority of IWC members, argue that nonlethal methods exist for gathering the data about whale stocks the Japanese seek and that Japan's research whaling program is merely a cover for banned commercial whaling. The Japanese argue that the objections to their program are based partly in racism, an argument that gains some legitimacy when one considers that two other IWC member states, Iceland and Norway, conduct commercial hunts under objections to the moratorium, and some other states that observe the ban, including the United States, allow native peoples to continue subsistence hunting of whales.

The Japanese -- and the Icelanders and Norwegians -- argue that stocks of many whale species have recovered to the point where safe commercial catch quotas can be re-established; environmental groups like Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace, on the other hand, oppose all whaling on the grounds that it is unnecessarily cruel.

Written by Sandy Smith
For HULIQ.com

http://www.huliq.com/8738/90191/japanese-take-advantage-loophole-whaling-moratorium
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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jackdanson

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2010, 05:51:52 PM »
Quote
Which species of whale were the Japs angling for?  Not all species of whales are endangered, you know. 

They are only "doing research" so they are hunting multiple types of whales.

According to some DNA tests done on the meat there are both endangered and "safe" whales being hunted... According to wiki.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2010, 06:00:09 PM »
the humpbacks have recovered  to 40, 000 or more
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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280plus

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2010, 06:30:04 PM »
never mind...
Avoid cliches like the plague!

HankB

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2010, 06:32:27 PM »
Noticed on the clip with the environut interview the guy accused the Japanese of getting increasingly violent.

Typical debate tactic of the leftist - accuse your opponent of engaging in YOUR actions.

Damn pirate environuts can - and should - be sunk. Like all pirates.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Japanese ship of deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2010, 06:33:47 PM »
Many people consider dolphins and whales to be intelligent higher mammals. 

I understand that, I just find the implication that "intelligent higher mammals" should not be hunted to be a very troubling thought process.  But it's beyond the scope of the thread, so...
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brimic

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2010, 06:35:20 PM »
The Japanese hitting the batboat with the water cannon after running it over was full of win >:D


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2010, 07:02:56 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/01/06/VI2010010601330.html

this one really shows em a liar

the  hippie watson claims they tried to start their motors and reverse outa the way of the whaler but the video shows the motors were running and they hit the throttle and tried to cut across the bow. they have some of the most inept sailors i've ever seen and the fat fraud is gonna get someone killed
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Ben

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2010, 07:07:59 PM »
Quote
the  hippie watson claims they tried to start their motors

That is so much BS I don't know where to start. No sane sailor would shut off their engines exposed to those seas, ESPECIALLY with other vessels maneuvering around them.

Liars liars their pantses are on fire.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2010, 07:09:30 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/01/06/VI2010010601330.html

this one really shows em a liar

the  hippie watson claims they tried to start their motors and reverse outa the way of the whaler but the video shows the motors were running and they hit the throttle and tried to cut across the bow. they have some of the most inept sailors i've ever seen and the fat fraud is gonna get someone killed
Inept indeed.  I suspect the guy piloting the bat boat was trying to dart back away from the fishing ship, but goosed the throttle the wrong direction.

Anyone who's done much with boats knows that the larger, heavier, "straighter-moving" vessel has the right of way.  The bat boat crew was negligent for even being near the fishing vessel, let alone managing to get themselves hit by it.

It's actually kinda laughable that the environuts claim the Nips hit them and not vice versa.  Either they're too dumb to realize how idiotic this concept is, or they think we're too dumb.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2010, 07:11:22 PM »
Can we stop calling them hippies?  They give hippies a bad name.  Watson and his ilk are ECO TERRORISTS.
JD

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KD5NRH

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2010, 07:11:46 PM »
These idiots are no different than the HSUS types that go into the woods banging pots, swooping on hunters with ultralights, and otherwise doing everything, regardless of legality, they can to interrupt hunting just becuase they don't like it.

Sure they're different: they have a lot more comms and position reporting, which makes it harder to 3S (well, 2S - don't really need a shovel in the ocean) them and pretend you never saw them.

Boomhauer

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2010, 07:15:06 PM »
Can we stop calling them hippies?  They give hippies a bad name.  Watson and his ilk are ECO TERRORISTS.


Well, "Take a bath, you damn Eco Terrorists" doesn't have quite the same ring to it, but I'm down with labeling them what they are...

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2010, 07:15:15 PM »
Ooh, thread-lock type stuff, that is.  (KD5)
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De Selby

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2010, 07:15:49 PM »
What interesting reactions - International law is worthless, the Japanese should just whale away, but when you talk about greenies, that's piracy (also international law) and a crime which warrants their vessels being sent to the bottom.

If international law is only about strength and will, why all the moral condemnation about greenies interfering with whaling?

Most of the world has agreed that these animals should be protected.  There is also little dispute that the Japanese whalers are not doing research.  

Of the two crimes, I think robbing the world of natural resources that don't belong to Japan is the greater.  

This is a scenario where the greenies do not put anyone at risk who isn't involved in criminal activity.  The comparisons to wrecking hunts and spiking trees don't fit.  Those activities endanger hunters and workmen who are doing nothing illegal.  

If a vessel wants to run the seas breaking the law, it has no grounds for complaint (and no right to self defense) when someone else shows up to try and stop the crime.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2010, 07:21:48 PM »
WWHHAAAAaaaaa!  They aren't allowed to hunt the cute widdle whales.  We said so!  So that means they can't!  And it also means we can do whatever dumbfrick stupid stuff we want about it.  Whaaaaa!!!!

 ;/

Your error lies in trying to elevate international law above Newton's laws.  You can piss and moan all you want about international consensus, but back in the real world 500tons of steel trumps 13 tons of carbon fiber, no ifs ands or buts.  Better hope you're wearing your PFD, ecoterrorists.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 07:35:19 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Perd Hapley

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2010, 07:23:41 PM »
What interesting reactions - International law is worthless, the Japanese should just whale away, but when you talk about greenies, that's piracy (also international law) and a crime which warrants their vessels being sent to the bottom.

If international law is only about strength and will, why all the moral condemnation about greenies interfering with whaling?

Because most people adhere to moral standards which are superior to law, or to international "law."  Because endangering humans to protect whales is obviously wrong. 


Quote
Of the two crimes, I think robbing the world of natural resources that don't belong to Japan is the greater.
 
And you don't realize that that is a deeply depraved, almost lunatic comment?  How disturbing.

Quote
This is a scenario where the greenies do not put anyone at risk who isn't involved in criminal activity.  The comparisons to wrecking hunts and spiking trees don't fit.  Those activities endanger hunters and workmen who are doing nothing illegal.  If a vessel wants to run the seas breaking the law, it has no grounds for complaint (and no right to self defense) when someone else shows up to try and stop the crime.
You realize that you are endorsing vigilantism?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2010, 07:26:49 PM »
Watched.

Ady Gil doesn't seem so stationary to me.

I do see the Shonan Maru turn into it aggressively, but Ady Gil moves forward into the path as well.  IMO.

I agree. The Shonan Maru appears to make a slight course change to starboard early in the video, but they have their fire hoses in play, suggesting that they are already reacting to something the eco-nuts were doing or had done. They then make a VERY aggressive turn to port, away from the Ady Gil, and if you look at both the Bob Barker version and the one shot from the Shonan Maru, it very much appears that the Ady Gil went from slow ahead to accelerating forward, rather than backing off.

The claim that the Shonan Maru was "to port" and thus did not have right of way is bogus. The vessel to starboard has right of way if/when both vessels are approximately equal in size or maneuverability. Where one is greatly less maneuverable, it always has the right of way. The Ady Gil's claim is akin to setting a rowboatd in front of an aircraft carrier and claiming you have the right of way.

I think the eco-nuts intentionally created the collision with the motive being to try to sue the Japanese out of being able to afford whaling.

And check this one out -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6MymqeXhl0&NR=1

The eco-terrorists are using lasers to try to blind the whalers. That could permanently blind some one and I consider it to be assault.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 07:47:21 PM by Hawkmoon »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2010, 07:28:11 PM »
i notice ss is no longer parroting the party line "they mean old whalers rammed us!"   reality is harsh that way
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2010, 07:29:09 PM »

You realize that you are endorsing vigilantism?

He's endorsing a tyranny of the law, with the law defined as whatever he wants it to be at the moment.

De Selby

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #72 on: January 06, 2010, 07:34:09 PM »
WWHHAAAAaaaaa!  They aren't allowed to hunt the cute widdle whales.  We said so!  So that means they can't!  And it also means we can do whatever dumbfrick stupid stuff we want about it.  Whaaaaa!!!!

 ;/

Your error lies in trying to elevate international law above Newton's laws.  You can piss and moan all you want about international consensus, but back in the real world 1000 tons of steel trumps 13 tons of carbon fiber, no ifs ands or buts.  Better hope you're wearing your PFD, ecoterrorists.

It looks like you have sailed past the point - my comment was on all the moral outrage at these greenies for their crimes, which exist solely in international law, versus the "eh, whatever, whaling laws are just international and that's meaningless" for the Japanese.

You could just as easily say "You may have a bigger ship, but you're going to get lasered/stink-bombed/obstructed if you want to illegally hunt whales."

fistful,

That would be a good argument for disarming Fish & Wildlife officers (game isn't worth human life) and making all poaching and other resource theft administrative offences like a traffic ticket.

This is a natural resource, it does not belong to Japan, and the rest of the world would like to see it protected.  There's simply no way to compare greenies blocking whaling to the standard eco-terrorism of the tree-spikers.

What I see in this discussion is politics as club membership more than anything else: because these greenies tend to be leftists, they must be opposed at every turn, and conversely, anyone who tangles with them must be supported.

 "Whatever my enemy supports I oppose, and whatever he opposes I support" appears to be the rule at play here.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #73 on: January 06, 2010, 07:36:21 PM »
A question: How is it possible for there to be vigilantism on international waters if there is no such thing as international law?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Hawkmoon

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Re: Japanese ship deliberately rams the Ady Gil
« Reply #74 on: January 06, 2010, 07:36:56 PM »
The whalers are doing something illegal that the whole world frowns upon... the econuts are just trying to get attention to their cause and it seems to be working... can't say I feel bad for the Japanese poachers who get gassed/lasered/etc.

The problem with your position is that the Japanese are NOT doing anything illegal. Most of the world frowns upon it, yes -- but the international treaties on whaling specifically allow a number to be taken each year for scientific purposes and the Japanese are operating legally (albeit immorally) under that loophole. I don't like it, either, but the eco-nuts are the ones in the wrong here.
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