Good source for beginner disaster preparedness

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If we presume there are such simple tricks to disarm a person with a knife without getting cut, would there not also be equally simple and easy to learn ways to avoid being disarmed?

Not in my (admittedly limited) experience.  Disarming a knife is a matter of leverage.  You use your arm, hand, or body to wrench the blade out of the fingers that are holding on to it.  It's a question of strong muscles (arm), amplified by leverage (knife blade and handle), working against weak muscles (fingers).

I didn't mean to misdirect the thread.  I simply wanted to point out that there is some truth to the idea that a knife can be taken from you in a fight.

Back to the survival prep guides, s'il vous plait.

[Viking]

If we presume there are such simple tricks to disarm a person with a knife without getting cut, would there not also be equally simple and easy to learn ways to avoid being disarmed?

Duct-taping the knife to your hand?

[Balog]

Wouldn't that require the person with the knife not, you know, cut the hand and arm reaching to grab the blade? Seems like you'd need to trap the arm holding the knife, secure a hold on the blade (wouldn't that cut your hand?), then apply leverage to wrench it out, all while the person with the knife allowed you to do it. Not picking a fight, I just really have doubts about how easy all that is to accomplish in an actual fight and I'm interested to hear about your experience. In the training you've done, was it full speed full contact with a resisting opponent? Did you use the simu-knives that leave paint marks, or the kind that actually shock you if you contact the edge?

In terms of information, here is a great primer on the pros and cons of the big 5 of backyard meat animals. And it's from Mother Earth News so even liberals shouldn't find it too out there and "survivalist-y." http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainable-Farming/1982-11-01/Comparing-the-Five-Best-Backyard-Livestock-Animals.aspx

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Wouldn't that require the person with the knife not, you know, cut the hand and arm reaching to grab the blade? Seems like you'd need to trap the arm holding the knife, secure a hold on the blade (wouldn't that cut your hand?), then apply leverage to wrench it out, all while the person with the knife allowed you to do it. Not picking a fight, I just really have doubts about how easy all that is to accomplish in an actual fight and I'm interested to hear about your experience. In the training you've done, was it full speed full contact with a resisting opponent? Did you use the simu-knives that leave paint marks, or the kind that actually shock you if you contact the edge?

Who said anything about not getting cut in the process?

[doczinn]

Exactly. In my (rather limited) knife disarming training, one thing which was emphasized was to expect to get cut.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

There were a great set of articles written by someone who survived Katrina, but i can't find them, maybe someone else can chime in with them?

EDIT: Found it:
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/

An excellent link!  This is just the sort of thing I'm looking for.  I will pass it along to the folks tonight.

Thanks!

[Balog]

Who said anything about not getting cut in the process?

So.... I dunno, seems like a losing proposition. I mean, sure now you're both unarmed, but you're bleeding and have lost functionality. Would you say "Guns are useless cause you can take them away easily. Of course you get shot in the process..."

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Yes, if you try to disarm a knife-wielding dude you'll probably get cut.  Probably get cut pretty badly.  What of it?  Would you rather he kept his knife so that he can keep stabbing and slashing at you indefinitely?

Look, I'm really not sure what you're on about.  I think you're reading things into this discussion that aren't there.  Nobody said knives were useless, or that you shouldn't carry one, or that you shouldn't use a gun, or whatever else you seem to be imagining.  

And you also seem to have some rather romantic notions about knife fighting banging about in your head, about it being an easy and clean and pleasant business.  I think you might be wise to work those ideas through, just in case you ever need to fight with a knife or against a guy with a knife.  You don't need to be an expert, and I'm certainly not an expert myself, but a little perspective might go a long way.

Now, please, can we get back to the regularly scheduled SHTF-guide-for-noobs thread?

[Balog]

Simmer down now. On gun forums, many people are vehemently opposed to carrying a knife for self-defense unless you are some fifth degree ninja master, and the reason inevitably given is that "The bad guy will just take it away from you." I was merely pointing out that knives are valid self defense tools even if one has not had extensive training in it, though obviously moar training is always better than less.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I'm romanticizing knife fighting. I've certainly not said anything to indicate that. I've been commenting that one does not need to be some type of highly trained master for a knife to be an effective self defense tool.

[RevDisk]

Exactly. In my (rather limited) knife disarming training, one thing which was emphasized was to expect to get cut.

First rule of knife fighting.  Most like, one of you is going to the hospital.  The second is probably going to the morgue. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Simmer down now. On gun forums, many people are vehemently opposed to carrying a knife for self-defense unless you are some fifth degree ninja master, and the reason inevitably given is that "The bad guy will just take it away from you." I was merely pointing out that knives are valid self defense tools even if one has not had extensive training in it, though obviously moar training is always better than less.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I'm romanticizing knife fighting. I've certainly not said anything to indicate that. I've been commenting that one does not need to be some type of highly trained master for a knife to be an effective self defense tool.

I can't account for the attitudes seen on other internet gun boards.  I can only react to the attitudes I see here.

If those internet gun board people are saying it's possible for an attacker to get your knife out of your hand, then they're right.  It's not particularly hard to do, and you should expect any serious street thug to know how to do it.  It certainly isn't an idea that you should roll your eyes at.

You also seem surprised or unaware that you'll end up getting cut in a knife fight.  This is romantic in the extreme.  Knife fighting is messy, nasty business.  You'll get cut.  Badly.  Getting cut isn't a "losing proposition", it's an inevitability.  If you plan to use a knife as a defensive tool, then you'd best make peace with that.

[Balog]

My comments were more geared towards "If someone attacks you with a knife, trying to wrench it out of his hands might be sub-optimal compared to say, evading or shooting him." And I still contend one could do disabling damage to someone trying to disarm you, prior to that happening.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

 

Ok.

[BReilley]

www.zombiehunters.org

Yea I know .  .  .
If you can get past the zombie metaphor they have some really good collective knowledge about putting together bug out bags, first aid kits, and other various knowledge for everyday use.  Like reviews on tents, sleeping bags and what not. Plus they have a firearm section.

Agreed.  I post there as The Business End.  The zombie bit is all good fun, to help the general public get past the assumptions of nuttiness.  There are a good number of morons there, but no more than any other forum(except - and I truly mean this - APS and a very few others).  More importantly, there are some VERY good how-tos from people who, to some degree, "living it".  There are frequent discussions on water collection/storage, gardening, etc.  Recently a detailed walkthrough for producing dish soap from common stuff.  I recommend ZS.  Maybe not for everyone, but lots of good fun to be had, if nothing else.

As for the knife bit... look at Headless Thompson Gunner's avatar... that's the rest of us.

[Balog]

Yeah, sorry about that. I can't take a gun to work so I'm stuck with a knife and get tired of taking crap for it on internet forums, so I'm probably over defensive.

To contribute something useful...

A guide to emergency medicine in the wilderness. Ignore the incredibly ugly website design. http://www.wemsi.org/

This is a pretty interesting site about backyard auquaponics. http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/

A huge collection of .mil medical manuals. http://www.vnh.org/

Here's a couple seed places.

http://www.everlastingseeds.com/

http://www.seedsavers.org/

[Balog]

Found this and was reminded of this thread. Haven't read a whole lot on it, but seems fairly non-kookish and down to earth.

http://thesurvivalmom.com/

[zxcvbob]

How about the LDS church?  http://www.providentliving.org

[Balog]

As vehemently as I disagree with their theology, I must say Mormons are at the top of my list of "good neighbors with strongly different religious views to have if tiki-wiki happens." Their only real competition being Sikhs. 

[sanglant]

or the Wallace clan hey at least you'd be entertained. i would much rather be fighting than just hiding.