Author Topic: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)  (Read 18447 times)

Balog

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2010, 06:16:00 PM »
Isn't it odd how (when you describe it) it sounds like a stirring tale of property rights, but (when you watch it) it always comes across as an anti-capitalism/anti-American screed?
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Cromlech

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2010, 06:19:30 PM »
Possibly because those who made/marketed it intended it to be taken both ways - or perhaps (probably, even) the way you mentioned.
I saw it as 'a stirring tale of property rights' myself.
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brimic

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2010, 06:29:18 PM »
There is a farm and a chemical plant right behind my house.

Now that that's out of the way, I probably won't see the movie or rent it, Cameron may have broke new ground for visual effects, but from the sound of it, lacked story. There will be other movies in the future with stunning 3d effects- maybe even a Red Dawn remake :cool:
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RevDisk

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2010, 07:07:25 PM »
Isn't it odd how (when you describe it) it sounds like a stirring tale of property rights, but (when you watch it) it always comes across as an anti-capitalism/anti-American screed?

Na, I saw the property rights thing pretty gorram quickly. 

"Tell them to move.  They said no?  Let's burn down their crib!"

Now wait just a darn second.  A sentient being is minding their business doing whatever, and someone wants to burn their house down?   Hell, I don't care if it's a crackhead or a corporation, you burn down my house, you'll need a hell of a lot more than a small fleet of gunships. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

roo_ster

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2010, 07:48:13 PM »
Tell yourselves "it's just a show, I really should relax".

I think you ought to heed your own advice.

I have no plans to see it and will only give it passing consideration if it runs in our local $1 movie theater.

Discretionary time is hard for me to come by and I will not willingly waste it on what most reviews say is a relative turd polished to a high 3-D sheen.  Whoopy-freaking-do.  I guess I am old school in that I insist on things like plot & story, character development, acting, & such...whatever the genre and special effects.

IOW, I dismiss it on the usual merits one would dismiss a film.  The tired old evil lefty tropes are just another reason not to waste my time...but would not have kept me away from it had it great merit other than special effects.
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roo_ster

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 07:49:11 PM »
In short, the people hailing it as unbroken ground
I have read may criticisms of the movie and not one has said anything like this.  On the contrary, it is criticized for a ham-fisted retelling of the usual Noble Savage story, adding nothing to Jean-Jacques Rousseau's edifice of baloney.


...the people decrying it as purest leftist propaganda would do well to check their NIMBYometers to see how many oil wells, nuclear reactors, or livestock farms they have in their yards; it's perhaps too easy to be OK with the destruction of someone else's home in the interest of "progress" or economic gain.

I'll trump that ace by noting I live in Texas.  I find the petroleum industry fascinating and am somewhat miffed that I won't have a rig nearby because the Barnett Shale doesn't reach into my neighborhood.

Drill Baby, Drill!
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roo_ster

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Sergeant Bob

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2010, 09:04:42 PM »
I haven't decided if I'll buy it when it comes out on video - I don't think my TVs are 3D capable, so it might be wasted, in which case I won't.  But I'm glad I went to see it, and in a theater where the effect was fully realized. 

Unless you have a Mitsubishi or a Samsung DLP, it's unlikely. =|
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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Ned Hamford

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2010, 09:56:41 PM »
I watched it with friends a week or so ago in 3d.  Absolutely wonderful effects, but weak, often nonsensical story.

What really got my goat was the helicopter pilot that joined up with the Na'vi.  I found it disturbing that everyone in the theater was cheering AGAINST the humans.  My 'just yesterday they shared  cafeteria, now she is killing them en mass' argument didn't reach many ears.  I also thought the 'he's gone rogue for breaking a camera' thing was a bit far fetched.  Guy in a 30 mil avatar body almost gets run over by a careless driver and then breaks the 30 dollar camera.  Oh yah, unforgivable, there is no going back.   

:mumbles about Avatar being a gateway for furries and wanders off to bed:
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Balog

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2010, 10:35:10 PM »
A lot of stories are based on a cliche to some degree. I just happen to think the "Poor noble savage oppressed by America/white guys/Western civilization" trope is very, very annoying. Probably because it's such a persistent theme in the earth first human are bad hippie movement.
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RevDisk

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2010, 10:50:16 PM »
What really got my goat was the helicopter pilot that joined up with the Na'vi.  I found it disturbing that everyone in the theater was cheering AGAINST the humans.  My 'just yesterday they shared  cafeteria, now she is killing them en mass' argument didn't reach many ears. 

Not a fan of "Quigley Down Under", eh?

If someone intentionally ordered me to kill expressly noncombatant civilians and burn their homes to the ground solely in order to mine a mineral from their land without compensation, I'd probably not "kill them en mass".   Just blow up their vehicles, ammo supplies, and the folks that gave me the order.  Instead of lifting off to flee, I'd simply rotate the gunship and put a couple missiles into the "command center", then strafe the other aircraft.  If possible, put a couple missiles into ammo magazine.  If not, then into the mining equipment. 

According to my religious beliefs, that would be the only moral and ethical choice. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

sanglant

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2010, 11:33:53 PM »
Fair enough.  You are not a typical sample, however.  Most of the people (especially in the US) who think in terms of Industry Uber Alles are not prepared to have that industry impinge upon their property.

right now, i bet most real people would be happy just to have the chance at getting the job :angel:

Perd Hapley

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2010, 11:58:30 PM »
You've got no room to talk Mr 17536 posts...  :laugh:

It's not like I have any finer people to hang out with.   =(
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sanglant

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2010, 12:03:43 AM »
if you would stop greeting people with a filled fist.............. >:D [popcorn]

erictank

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2010, 03:33:59 AM »
Unless you have a Mitsubishi or a Samsung DLP, it's unlikely. =|

Nope - 2 different Panasonic plasmas, the upstairs ~1.5 years old, the downstairs one of their new-this-year THX-rated models (G1, I think?)  I don't remember 3D being mentioned anywhere in the promotional or instruction materials.  Oh well - as has been noted, Avatar is all about the superwhammodyne VFX, so I won't be getting it until we get a TV that makes it worthwhile - or not at all, once actual good STORIES are available with said neato VFX, too.  I'm capable of enjoying purely-visual spectacles, but given the choice between the two, I'll take good visuals plus good story over just good visuals. [popcorn]

Jamisjockey

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2010, 07:46:00 AM »


America is bad.  War is bad. We're evil for going to war with little brown people. 


I won't be watching avatar.  I prefer to get my propoganda from the news channels.  I go to movies to be entertained.
JD

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brimic

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2010, 08:12:31 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html

(CNN) -- James Cameron's completely immersive spectacle "Avatar" may have been a little too real for some fans who say they have experienced depression and suicidal thoughts after seeing the film because they long to enjoy the beauty of the alien world Pandora.

On the fan forum site "Avatar Forums," a topic thread entitled "Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible," has received more than 1,000 posts from people experiencing depression and fans trying to help them cope. The topic became so popular last month that forum administrator Philippe Baghdassarian had to create a second thread so people could continue to post their confused feelings about the movie.

"I wasn't depressed myself. In fact the movie made me happy ," Baghdassarian said. "But I can understand why it made people depressed. The movie was so beautiful and it showed something we don't have here on Earth. I think people saw we could be living in a completely different world and that caused them to be depressed."

A post by a user called Elequin expresses an almost obsessive relationship with the film.

"That's all I have been doing as of late, searching the Internet for more info about 'Avatar.' I guess that helps. It's so hard I can't force myself to think that it's just a movie, and to get over it, that living like the Na'vi will never happen. I think I need a rebound movie," Elequin posted.

A user named Mike wrote on the fan Web site "Naviblue" that he contemplated suicide after seeing the movie.




"Ever since I went to see 'Avatar' I have been depressed. Watching the wonderful world of Pandora and all the Na'vi made me want to be one of them. I can't stop thinking about all the things that happened in the film and all of the tears and shivers I got from it," Mike posted. "I even contemplate suicide thinking that if I do it I will be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora and the everything is the same as in 'Avatar.' "

Other fans have expressed feelings of disgust with the human race and disengagement with reality.

Cameron's movie, which has pulled in more than $1.4 billion in worldwide box office sales and could be on track to be the highest grossing film of all time, is set in the future when the Earth's resources have been pillaged by the human race. A greedy corporation is trying to mine the rare mineral unobtainium from the planet Pandora, which is inhabited by a peace-loving race of 7-foot tall, blue-skinned natives called the Na'vi.

In their race to mine for Pandora's resources, the humans clash with the Na'vi, leading to casualties on both sides. The world of Pandora is reminiscent of a prehistoric fantasyland, filled with dinosaur-like creatures mixed with the kinds of fauna you may find in the deep reaches of the ocean. Compared with life on Earth, Pandora is a beautiful, glowing utopia.

Ivar Hill posts to the "Avatar" forum page under the name Eltu. He wrote about his post-"Avatar" depression after he first saw the film earlier this month.

"When I woke up this morning after watching Avatar for the first time yesterday, the world seemed ... gray. It was like my whole life, everything I've done and worked for, lost its meaning," Hill wrote on the forum. "It just seems so ... meaningless. I still don't really see any reason to keep ... doing things at all. I live in a dying world."

Reached via e-mail in Sweden where he is studying game design, Hill, 17, explained that his feelings of despair made him desperately want to escape reality.

"One can say my depression was twofold: I was depressed because I really wanted to live in Pandora, which seemed like such a perfect place, but I was also depressed and disgusted with the sight of our world, what we have done to Earth. I so much wanted to escape reality," Hill said.

Cameron's special effects masterpiece is very lifelike, and the 3-D performance capture and CGI effects essentially allow the viewer to enter the alien world of Pandora for the movie's 2½-hour running time, which only lends to the separation anxiety some individuals experience when they depart the movie theater.

"Virtual life is not real life and it never will be, but this is the pinnacle of what we can build in a virtual presentation so far," said Dr. Stephan Quentzel, psychiatrist and Medical Director for the Louis Armstrong Center for Music and Medicine at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York. "It has taken the best of our technology to create this virtual world and real life will never be as utopian as it seems onscreen. It makes real life seem more imperfect."

Fans of the movie may find actor Stephen Lang, who plays the villainous Col. Miles Quaritch in the film, an enemy of the Na'vi people and their sacred ground, an unlikely sympathizer. But Lang says he can understand the connection people are feeling with the movie.

"Pandora is a pristine world and there is the synergy between all of the creatures of the planet and I think that strikes a deep chord within people that has a wishfulness and a wistfulness to it," Lang said. "James Cameron had the technical resources to go along with this incredibly fertile imagination of his and his dream is built out of the same things that other peoples' dreams are made of."

The bright side is that for Hill and others like him -- who became dissatisfied with their own lives and with our imperfect world after enjoying the fictional creation of James Cameron -- becoming a part of a community of like-minded people on an online forum has helped them emerge from the darkness.

"After discussing on the forums for a while now, my depression is beginning to fade away. Having taken a part in many discussions concerning all this has really, really helped me," Hill said. "Before, I had lost the reason to keep on living -- but now it feels like these feelings are gradually being replaced with others."

Quentzel said creating relationships with others is one of the keys to human happiness, and that even if those connections are occurring online they are better than nothing.

"Obviously there is community building in these forums," Quentzel said. "It may be technologically different from other community building, but it serves the same purpose."

Within the fan community, suggestions for battling feelings of depression after seeing the movie include things like playing "Avatar" video games or downloading the movie soundtrack, in addition to encouraging members to relate to other people outside the virtual realm and to seek out positive and constructive activities.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good grief. ;/
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CNYCacher

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2010, 08:21:15 AM »
America is bad.  War is bad. We're evil for going to war with little brown people.  

I won't be watching avatar.  I prefer to get my propoganda from the news channels.  I go to movies to be entertained.

Having actually SEEN the movie, I didn't get that feeling at all.

Nor did my Army Reservist, American Flag on Everything He Owns, John Wayne Poster Over His Mantel brother in law.

Nor did the Buddhist, Hippie, Organic, Don't Use Aerosols They Hurt the Earth, friend who accompanied us.

Apparently you prefer your propaganda from blogs offering movie reviews. ;)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 08:37:42 AM by CNYCacher »
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
Charles Babbage

Balog

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2010, 10:58:29 AM »
Oh emo-kids, God bless 'em for all the free entertainment they've given us.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2010, 12:07:39 PM »
Having actually SEEN the movie, I didn't get that feeling at all.

Nor did my Army Reservist, American Flag on Everything He Owns, John Wayne Poster Over His Mantel brother in law.

Nor did the Buddhist, Hippie, Organic, Don't Use Aerosols They Hurt the Earth, friend who accompanied us.

Apparently you prefer your propaganda from blogs offering movie reviews. ;)

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091211/REVIEWS/912119998

Quote
  "Avatar" is not simply a sensational entertainment, although it is that. It's a technical breakthrough. It has a flat-out Green and anti-war message. It is predestined to launch a cult. It contains such visual detailing that it would reward repeating viewings. It invents a new language, Na'vi, as "Lord of the Rings" did, although mercifully I doubt this one can be spoken by humans, even teenage humans. It creates new movie stars. It is an Event, one of those films you feel you must see to keep up with the conversation.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

BrokenPaw

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2010, 12:10:49 PM »
America is bad.  War is bad. We're evil for going to war with little brown people.

See, I didn't get that at all.  I got "it's not right to bulldoze an entire culture, because you want what they have, and just because someone's beliefs are different from your own, that doesn't intrinsically make them invalid." 

Avatar is turning out to be a billion-plus dollar Rorschach test.  It's very interesting to see what different people see in it.

Sayeth Hamlet:  "The play's the thing, wherein I'll catch the conscience of the King."

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TechMan

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2010, 12:17:25 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html

Good grief. ;/


To the people in the CNN article....IT IS A MOVIE!!!!....IT IS NOT REAL!!!!.  If the above article is true, I hope some bleach gets poured into the gene pool. 
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Jamisjockey

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2010, 12:18:21 PM »
See, I didn't get that at all.  I got "it's not right to bulldoze an entire culture, because you want what they have, and just because someone's beliefs are different from your own, that doesn't intrinsically make them invalid."  


-BP

Generally speaking, as a society we have gone away from flat out bulldozing a culture to take what they have.  
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

CNYCacher

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2010, 12:38:22 PM »
Generally speaking, as a society we have gone away from flat out bulldozing a culture to take what they have.  

Aren't you supposed to be arguing that Avatar IS propaganda?  Because you seem to be arguing that our society doesn't have anything to do with the humans portrayed in the movie. ;)

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091211/REVIEWS/912119998

We've established that there are reviewers who state the movie is propaganda.

All I'm saying is that I saw the movie and I didn't feel that way.  I also shared that at least one person I know who would be VERY sensitive to anti-war propaganda (bil) didn't feel that way.  Now, If you feel like Roger Ebert has more in common with you than I do, okey-dokie.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 12:44:58 PM by CNYCacher »
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
Charles Babbage

BrokenPaw

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2010, 12:46:16 PM »
Generally speaking, as a society we have gone away from flat out bulldozing a culture to take what they have.  

Exactly. 

But that's what the humans were doing in the movie.  Which is why I find the frothing-at-the-mouth about how anti-American the movie is to be...strange.

"Hey!  They made a movie where the Bad Evil Guys did something we don't do!  It's obvious that they're saying we're the Bad Evil Guys, for doing that thing that...we don't do!  Yeah!"   ???
Seek out wisdom in books, rare manuscripts, and cryptic poems if you will, but seek it also in simple stones and fragile herbs and in the cries of wild birds. Listen to the song of the wind and the roar of water if you would discover magic, for it is here that the old secrets are still preserved.

jackdanson

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Re: My Avatar rant... (or, what movie did these gun bloggers all watch?)
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2010, 01:35:30 PM »
It is a hack story, but it's a well done hack story.

It's also liberal.  I don't mind watching liberal movies, as long as they aren't filled with lies. (Michael Moore)