Author Topic: Jesus Rifles  (Read 15348 times)

Fly320s

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Jesus Rifles
« on: January 18, 2010, 04:25:38 PM »
Trijicon inscribes references to Bible passages on its ACOG sight it sells to the US military. Some people are upset.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=9575794&pid=4380645

U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes
By JOSEPH RHEE, TAHMAN BRADLEY and BRIAN ROSSToday, 11:50 AM EST

Supplier for rifle sights says it has 'always' added New Testament references.

U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes
By JOSEPH RHEE, TAHMAN BRADLEY and BRIAN ROSSToday, 11:50 AM EST
 
Supplier for rifle sights says it has 'always' added New Testament references.
Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.

'It violates the Constitution'

The company's vision is described on its Web site: "Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom."
"We believe that America is great when its people are good," says the Web site. "This goodness has been based on Biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals."

Spokespeople for the U.S. Army and the Marine Corps both said their services were unaware of the biblical markings. They said officials were discussing what steps, if any, to take in the wake of the ABCNews.com report. It is not known how many Trijicon sights are currently in use by the U.S. military.

The biblical references appear in the same type font and size as the model numbers on the company's Advanced Combat Optical Guides, called the ACOG.

A photo on a Department of Defense Web site shows Iraqi soldiers being trained by U.S. troops with a rifle equipped with the bible-coded sights.

"It's wrong, it violates the Constitution, it violates a number of federal laws," said Michael "Mikey" Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military.

'Firearms of Jesus Christ'

"It allows the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, al Qaeda and the insurrectionists and jihadists to claim they're being shot by Jesus rifles," he said.
Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they've told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm of Jesus Christ."

He said coded biblical inscriptions play into the hands of "those who are calling this a Crusade."

According to a government contracting watchdog group, fedspending.org, Trijicon had more than $100 million in government contracts in fiscal year 2008. The Michigan company won a $33 million Pentagon contract in July, 2009 for a new machine gun optic, according to Defense Industry Daily. The company's earnings from the U.S. military jumped significantly after 2005, when it won a $660 million long-term contract to supply the Marine Corps with sights.

"This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It's literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we're fighting. We're emboldening an enemy."
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 04:40:09 PM by Fly320s »
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Fly320s

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 04:36:01 PM »
Fixed
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 04:40:58 PM by Fly320s »
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Nick1911

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 04:38:19 PM »
Fixed!   =)

Fly320s

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 04:42:17 PM »
Thanks, Nick.

Was the "bracketed S" code there?  It wasn't visible to me.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 04:45:50 PM »
I gigglesnort at the libs getting uppity over this.

I hope Trijicon sticks to its principles and keeps the inscriptions.

#1 - They are relevant to the use of the product.  All the references are about illumination, and frankly:  They're kinda funny. =D
#2 - "Separation of church and state" is BS, but the freedom of a vendor to inscribe suggested moral guidelines for the use of one of their products is not something the market is adverse to.  Heck, look at the Ruger "billboard" on the muzzle.

I doubt the dotmil is going to abandon ACOGs.  If they do, though, or try to put their foot down on the inscriptions, I hope Trijicon pulls a "Barrett."
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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Nick1911

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 04:55:57 PM »
Thanks, Nick.

Was the "bracketed S" code there?  It wasn't visible to me.

Yea, I was able to see a [ s ] hiding in there.

freakazoid

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 05:00:55 PM »
Thanks ABC and everybody making a big hubbub over this. I now know that they do this and will plan on buying there products in the future.  =D
I also thought it was funny how they all seemed to reference illumination and light. And this does not violate the Constitution. People really should study it more before they talk about what violates what.

Quote
Heck, look at the Ruger "billboard" on the muzzle.

Billboard?
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AJ Dual

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2010, 05:11:03 PM »
Waiting on the other shoe to drop. A big expose that ATK/Federal uses bacon to lubricate the 5.56 presses...
I promise not to duck.

Jamie B

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2010, 05:14:28 PM »
I think that this is fantastic!

The last time I checked, In God We Trust - perfect for the battlefield against terrorism!

Jamie
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Jocassee

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 05:15:03 PM »
I find it hilarious that our Muj obviously haven't noticed or don't care and yet Mikey Weinstein feels obligated to raise hell over it. What are they going to do, chase down each individual unit and scrape part of the serial off?
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Jamie B

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 05:16:47 PM »
Waiting on the other shoe to drop. A big expose that ATK/Federal uses bacon to lubricate the 5.56 presses...

Using bacon grease as a bullet lube has got to torque someone off!

Jamie
Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

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Boomhauer

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 05:17:16 PM »
I find it hilarious that our Muj obviously haven't noticed or don't care and yet Mikey Weinstein feels obligated to raise hell over it. What are they going to do, chase down each individual unit and scrape part of the serial off?

Not only have the enemy not noticed/cared...I don't think many Trijicon owners/users even knew about it...

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2010, 05:19:38 PM »
wonder if we could find out mikeys history?  what made him leave the airforce etc
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 05:23:15 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2010, 05:24:54 PM »
n October 2005, Weinstein sued the United States Air Force for permitting proselytization by evangelical Christian officers. U.S. District Judge James A. Parker, who presided over Weinstein v. U.S. Air Force, dismissed the case, stating, "No Plaintiff claims to have personally experienced any of the things described under “Factual Allegations"... while at the Academy or after leaving the Academy." "The only fair reading of Plaintiffs’ factual allegations limits them to practices and events at the Academy and policies as they affect persons, other than Plaintiffs, at the Academy." "Not a single Plaintiff has alleged any personal factual situation that has allegedly impinged on that Plaintiff’s constitutional rights since the Plaintiff left the Academy.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2010, 05:25:27 PM »
Billboard?

Ruger revolvers have a very long inscription carved into the left side of the barrel.  It reads:
Quote
Read Instruction Manual

Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc.,
Southport, Conn. U.S.A.

S&W and many other manufacturers put the obligatory manufacturer marks in more discrete parts of the firearm and the "Read Instruction Manual" is a moral directive by Ruger for the owner to become familiar with safety and operation of the firearm prior to operating it.

Not "religious" but certainly advocating adherence to a particular dogma.

I don't see anything wrong with biblical references asking for mental/spiritual/moral illumination.

Quote
One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

It is the fervent hope of the manufacturer that all users of the equipment at least read these lines and derive some sort of discrimination in target selection as a result.

Much as Ruger hopes all users read the instruction manual so as to avoid accidental discharges or negligent handling of firearms.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Regolith

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2010, 05:26:11 PM »
Billboard?

Ruger puts their company name in large letters on the barrels of their revolvers, along with a large amount of "warning" text on the other side.  The size and conspicuousness of the lettering has caused it to be dubbed a "billboard."

There was a mod I saw on thr.org a few years back where someone had the lettering removed, shaving a few thousands of an inch of metal off the entire gun, which also had the effect of smoothing out the sharp angles.  All in all, it looked rather nice.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2010, 05:41:55 PM »
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2010, 05:49:39 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beecher%27s_Bibles

Ooh, thank you!  I like!  Nifty trivia regarding use of force as a moral judgement and imperative.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Perd Hapley

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2010, 05:54:05 PM »
And a fun way to smuggle guns, to boot.   :angel:
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Jocassee

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2010, 05:59:32 PM »
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/weinstein2.html

here is what he thinks about himself

He seems to be quite a scrapper and proud of it.
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Waitone

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2010, 06:06:54 PM »
Notice the use of the word "coded" as if the inscriptions are some sort of occultic mumbo-jumbo.  There is no code about it.  It appears to be a flat out standard method of navigating the Bible. 

Let's play a game of word association. I say "coded" and you say . . . . .

Nice try guys.
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jackdanson

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2010, 06:09:56 PM »
Ok, yet another reason I need to buy myself an acog.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2010, 06:12:02 PM »
Look, everyone, I see a panty-knot!
 :lol:

I read it as "coded" as in some kind of puzzle.  Like "Hey, I wonder what this inscription means?"  


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41magsnub

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Re: Jesus Rifles
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2010, 06:27:15 PM »
If I were buying an ACOG and had a choice between religious inscribed vs non inscribed version I would choose the non due to my personal beliefs.  This is a small thing to get worked up over, though I think it is in poor taste for a military/gov contract item.